My compound turbo set-up

[SpawnedX]

I agree with the sentiments on the e316g and the 14b. Especially the 14b, it's an amazing little turbo capable of 20+ PSI daily.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

That post was directed to 94awdcoupe. Since he was saying he should get a smaller turbo thats more reliable or something like that.

"I would have used a smaller primary turbo" Thats what he said. But i asked, whats a smaller more efficient turbo than an e316g? Thats what turbo you used, right Paul?

 

[SpawnedX]

Oh, that guy, yeah I stopped considering anything he said as worthwhile, a little bit back.

 

[99gst_racer]

That post was directed to 94awdcoupe. Since he was saying he should get a smaller turbo thats more reliable or something like that.

"I would have used a smaller primary turbo" Thats what he said. But i asked, whats a smaller more efficient turbo than an e316g? Thats what turbo you used, right Paul?

Mine is actually a clipped B16G. But that's why I asked which one he considers to be the primary. I've always considered the smaller turbo to be the primary because it's the one doing the most work, and the one feeding the engine, but some consider the primary to be the larger turbo. I don't know which one he was referring to.

 

[dsm-onster]

Your 16g is clipped? I bet your setup would have a better powerband and still lose very little up top with a nonclipped td05h wheel. It's not like you're pushing the 16g hard. What PR is it running?

I think you should do a nonclipped 16g with your gt35r next. Better response all around with both turbos. Plus the gt35r will give more topend for sure. . . all my personal speculation.

 

[schroder]

i personally would love to run an either t25/evo3 16g setup with an hx35 or 40. That to me would be a very quick spooling powerhouse!

I'm actually looking to do the Evo 9 turbo/Hx40 compound set up on my truck sometime next season I've got to get it caged first in order to really use it at the track, but it should be a whole footload of fun

 

[99gst_racer]

Your 16g is clipped? I bet your setup would have a better powerband and still lose very little up top with a nonclipped td05h wheel. It's not like you're pushing the 16g hard. What PR is it running?

I think you should do a nonclipped 16g with your gt35r next. Better response all around with both turbos. Plus the gt35r will give more topend for sure. . . all my personal speculation.

Yeah, Justin had the clipped wheel laying around, and my 16g's wheel was toast, we we figured we'd try it out. I'm 98% sure that my next configuration will use a td05 20g with the 10cm2 T3 housing.

 

[slipstream808]

I dunno. I'd be kinda curious to see what a FP T-28 would do.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm wondering if the small turbo would even need to be that large. You're not running the e3 16g at unusually high PRs. You probably would get a faster spool sticking with a 7cm^2 turbine housing. Likely, most of the gases by pass it when she's full song anyhow. You need a bigger secondary to feed the monster appetite of a good 4g63 motor plus 16g.

I think a 10cm^2 td05h 20g will spool about as fast as a gt35r. You need it to be boosting before the big turbo to get the airflow moving as if your small turbo/engine were a larger single higher displacing maching. I look at the primary stage as simply a displacement increaser, just as a supercharger is. That's why I'm puzzled as to your much higher airflow results than what a 60-1 compressor map shows, unless an s-cover t-netics 60-1 is different from the old 60-1 that we're all used to seeing.

. . . well a clipped 16g is laggy too. . . Thinking and typing all the same here.

So, regardless a step up on the big turbo and the little turbo means much better results for sure. I hope your drivetrain holds up not just your clutch.

I'm actually looking to do the Evo 9 turbo/Hx40 compound set up on my truck sometime next season I've got to get it caged first in order to really use it at the track, but it should be a whole footload of fun

Try to maintain the twinscroll configuration through out the compound process

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Ill sell you a 20g TD05H dsm exhaust housing with a polished comp cover and ceramic exhaust!!!!

 

[99gst_racer]

I'm wondering if the small turbo would even need to be that large. You're not running the e3 16g at unusually high PRs. You probably would get a faster spool sticking with a 7cm^2 turbine housing. Likely, most of the gases by pass it when she's full song anyhow.

Yeah, I've been on the fence about running another 16g or moving up to a 20g. I'm really not sure either way yet, but I do know that I'll be using the T3 housing as long as I stay with the td05 wheel. The 7cm housing is probably posing as some amount of restriction right now. I think a larger housing is in order to cope with the amount of exhaust energy exiting the head. I really wish I knew what my backpressure was in the exhaust manifold...

I hope your drivetrain holds up not just your clutch.

Yeah, I'm a bit worried about that too. I'm fearing that the only reason my drivetrain has held up thus far is because the clutch is slipping some. We'll find out soon enough I suppose...

 

[99gst_racer]

BTW, it's all officially up for grabs if anyone is interested: FS: Compound turbo set-up (complete kit) - DSM Classifieds

Tell your friends.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

So, why does the big turbo feed the little one. I dont understand that. From looking at the pics, i couldnt understand why its like that?

 

[Slippi84]

If i thought my gt42 would fit in place of that 60-1 i probably would buy it. To be honest though the lag makes it fun and keeps shot from breaking.

 

[99gst_racer]

So, why does the big turbo feed the little one. I dont understand that. From looking at the pics, i couldnt understand why its like that?

The larger compressor feeds the smaller one a higher atmosphere. This is how low-end power is achieved with copious amounts of airflow up top. If it were configured with the smaller compressor feeding the larger compressor, I'm sure the entire powerband would be later and lesser.

If i thought my gt42 would fit in place of that 60-1 i probably would buy it. To be honest though the lag makes it fun and keeps shot from breaking.

I think the 16g would be too small for a 42R. If I were using a 42R, I'd pair it with an HX35.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Ah. I see. Makes sense now. Damn. I would have used a slightly larger primary rather than a 16g. Ive got a 20g if you want to go bigger. Very nice either way. Hope it sells.

 

[newtodsm's]

Take my wife in trade??? I'll even throw in all her shoes and purses. j/k wish i had the money

 

[JusMX141]

Your 16g is clipped? I bet your setup would have a better powerband and still lose very little up top with a nonclipped td05h wheel. It's not like you're pushing the 16g hard.

Initially we were concerned with the amount of airflow the 7cm housing would flow with a standard, unclipped 05H turbine.

Paul's next setup may utilize a 20G compressor / TD05H turbine combo using the 10cm T3 housing I donated. Knowing what we now know the 16G / 60-1 setup could flow and what kind of power it was able to generate, the 20G with something like a S366 on top would be unreal.

 

[dsm-onster]

He was talking about a bit smaller gt35r though.

Without knowing back pressure relative to a typical setup, this is just a guessing game though, Jus. I BELIEVE you all are right. But I wonder. . .

Nevertheless, it will be an absolute smash in the mouth regardless on the street.

 

[JusMX141]

Without knowing back pressure relative to a typical setup, this is just a guessing game though, Jus. I BELIEVE you all are right. But I wonder. . .

Right, we had no idea what we were up against being that Paul's setup was the first of it's kind on a DSM. I've understood the compounding theory for a while but never understood how it would work using a turbine wheel and housing that struggles to flow 42-44lb/min under atmospheric conditions. I know that clipping normally robs a little spool in exchange for top-end flow, but I felt it was a much-needed trade off in order to gain the overall flow necessary for compounding.

I never thought 80 lb/min would be possible, but what I didn't want was for the 05H turbine and 7cm housing to limit the whole setup to the standard atmospheric turbine flow of the 05H turbine wheel.

Being that Paul's setup is the first of it's kind, we've learned a few things....the head feed for a MHI turbo can give it enough oil flow and pressure to withstand extreme pressure and temperatures from compounding and STILL allow the turbo to have a like-new feel and no oil consumption after a year and a half, and the strength of a factory 05H turbine is mind-blowing considering the heat and stress put on the turbine with 80 lb/min of airflow being funneled into it.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

The small turbo's turbine doesn't see any more flow than whatever would normally be required to run the PR and volume flow it is running, compounded or not. The vast majority of that 80 lbs/min flow is wastegated. Any additional mass flow through the small turbine would be seen as boost creep.

This was made obvious on my setup by the fact that I had to add a 2nd V44 to my 50 trim to keep it from boost creeping over the set 45 psi. 2 V44s are required to bypass the ~90 lbs/min I'm running around the 50 trim's turbine.

As far as a 16g and a 42R, I think it would be a good match if it were an EVO 16g and a 4294. The 4202 might be a bit big, but it can all be compensated for in the PRs. I personally like to keep the PRs matched when possible and the turbos sized 2:1, but I don't know if there is any real benefit to that other than making for easier math. At 45 psi I end up around 1.9 and 2.1.

 

[Slippi84]

Yeah but Paul do you think physically a gt4294 would fit with yoru manifold setup you have?

 

[99gst_racer]

Yeah but Paul do you think physically a gt4294 would fit with yoru manifold setup you have?

It would physically bolt up. You probably wouldn't be able to fit a radiator in front of it though, and I don't know if the compressor cover would clear the hood or not. And the downpipe would need to be remade.

 

[Slippi84]

It would physically bolt up. You probably wouldn't be able to fit a radiator in front of it though, and I don't know if the compressor cover would clear the hood or not. And the downpipe would need to be remade.

Yeah I"m good I don't want to be taking big steps back at this point progress wise. The dsm mob would come to my house and tell me I can't leave till the car runs if I wait much longer haha.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Im about to that point Sean. Watch yo back son!