Hitting 400whp

[dsmmichael]

Have a big 16g and noticed in the dyno thread that some dsm's have passed the 400hp mark with a 16g.


Currently I have:
Forged Pistons
Bored .020 over
272cams
evo 3 turbo w/ported exhaust housing (ported)
750cc fuel injectors
255fuel pump
Intercooler (stock supras all aluminum intercooler)
Eliminated Balance Shaft
Radiator is a 3 core aluminum radiator
Act 2100 Clutch
Crushed 1st gen BOV


The car still has not been tuned, nor dynod.

What would you recommend upgrading/doing to make help the car hit that 400hp goal.

 

[cliffkemp]

To get 400 whp on a big 16g, nearly 475 or so at the crank, is going to take a lot of money.

Unless he uses meth to keep the intake cool, he is not going to do it on 91 pump gas. If you look at the dyno of the 400whp cars, they have another fuel or, use something to cool off the incoming air and, they are using an evo 3 16g and not a regular big 16g. He will need some larger cams, port out everything or, at least gasket match everything on intake/exhaust/turbo exhaust. Odds are, at that power level, he will break something such as a headgasket or other parts. It will take a good bit to get to that level. Most 16g turbos are good for around 280 to 350 whp on the 'average' stock car. The evo 3 16g is capable of 400whp though but, barely. Good luck in it but, do not be surprised if you come up around 50+ whp short. Even at 350, it will be a fast car capable of mid 12 passes or lower around 110+ mph depending on launching ability and condition of transmission/shifting/weight of the car. To get 400whp, he would be better off just getting a larger turbo....a green or something around that size instead of beating a big 16g to the edge.

my .02 worth

 

[renovatdkitchen]

Don't know if you already picked up a FMIC, but the CX racing ones on eBay seem to be a viable solution and apparently hold boost pretty well. And make sure you pick up a failsafe with the meth injection kit.

 

[bmil13]

Do you still have stock head bolts? Or did you get head studs already?

 

[dsmmichael]

To get 400 whp on a big 16g, nearly 475 or so at the crank, is going to take a lot of money.

Unless he uses meth to keep the intake cool, he is not going to do it on 91 pump gas. If you look at the dyno of the 400whp cars, they have another fuel or, use something to cool off the incoming air and, they are using an evo 3 16g and not a regular big 16g. He will need some larger cams, port out everything or, at least gasket match everything on intake/exhaust/turbo exhaust. Odds are, at that power level, he will break something such as a headgasket or other parts. It will take a good bit to get to that level. Most 16g turbos are good for around 280 to 350 whp on the 'average' stock car. The evo 3 16g is capable of 400whp though but, barely. Good luck in it but, do not be surprised if you come up around 50+ whp short. Even at 350, it will be a fast car capable of mid 12 passes or lower around 110+ mph depending on launching ability and condition of transmission/shifting/weight of the car. To get 400whp, he would be better off just getting a larger turbo....a green or something around that size instead of beating a big 16g to the edge.

my .02 worth

Thank you for your input! I rather it be straightforward then to have high hopes and fall way short of my goal!
I have $1200 now, but willing to put far more into it as paychecks come in to hit this mark.
I was going to look into getting a larger turbo, but until I gain more knowledge/experience I'll see what I can do with this Evo 3 16g.
I'd rather take things slowly then shoot for something larger than I can Handle resulting in a dead dsm.

Don't know if you already picked up a FMIC, but the CX racing ones on eBay seem to be a viable solution and apparently hold boost pretty well. And make sure you pick up a failsafe with the meth injection kit.

CX racing? Great thanks! I'll look into them! And thank you for the heads up on the failsafe!

Do you still have stock head bolts? Or did you get head studs already?

I have ARP head studs.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

CX racing? Great thanks! I'll look into them! And thank you for the heads up on the failsafe!

The Punishment Racing and CX Racing FMIC's are one in the same. CX Racing makes them and Punishment Racing sells them under their name.

 

[Groundation]

In the vendor announcements there is a good deal going for the vrsf intercooler. I hear good things about it, check it out.

 

[SOADweskey]

I second that VRSF deal going on right now. I'm running that I/C in my car and it has been working great, even with the $60 added to get a J-pipe for your 16g it is still a great deal.

Also I was thinking that if you are planning to have RRE tune your car you really should get in touch with Sam over there early while you are still buying parts so he can give his input on what will make it easiest for him to tune it. Also he is real good with meth injection and using ECMlink to provide safeguards for it.

 

[Ludachris]

Question for you - if you're going to RRE to get tuned, I'm guessing you're in CA? Not sure why you don't have your car and location filled out in your profile, those are supposed to be required fields.

If you're in CA, be careful with all the suggestions on bigger injectors, that is, if you plan on trying to pass smog. You'll already have a tough time passing a visual, but the larger injectors make it tough to pass the sniffer. The rule of thumb is to stay on the smaller side, just big enough to deliver enough fuel for what you need and that's it. Don't just go and get the biggest injectors out there.

Cliffkemp sums it up pretty well. To hit that mark you need to run pretty high boost levels on a 16g (somewhere around to 30 psi I'd say), and it should be an Evo3 16 as opposed to a regular 16g. That means you have to run a meth kit with your 91, and if it's CA 91 it's worse than 91 elsewhere, or you need race gas or E85. All are somewhat inconvenient in their own way for a daily driver. Meth kits are bulky and require you to refill, E85 means you're always looking for stations that have it, and race gas is simply too expensive to run on a daily basis. If you have E85 stations all around you, go that route. But know that if you go out of your area you'll need to plan out where you'll be stopping to fill up.

Know that once you get to that level you're likely going to break things. Clutches don't last long, axles have a way of needing replacement, head gaskets let go, etc. The more power you make, the more stress you're putting on the entire driveline. Keep some money aside for all that. Nice choice on going to RRE, they've been around a long time and should do you well. If I were in SoCal, I'd go to them too.

 

[Tiki2777]

You need an afpr, and some kind of short route fmic so you don't lose any power since its not a huge turbo. The stock pipes are crap on ice so recommend at least replacing those. Get a mbc if you dont already have one. TUNING for sure, and you might want to think about an injen intake pipe, dont get an FP because its too big until about 20g turbos. (some things have shown this too be truw but any intake pipe i guess is realisticly better than the accordian shiz box). Other than that, turn up the boost!

Oh, and i hope you would have a full exhaust system

 

[Silent_White]

This is the intercooler you want. It has short route piping, its cost effective, and huge.

2G ECLIPSE/TALON BOLT ON BAR&PLATE FRONT MOUNT ALUMINUM INTERCOOLER KIT PIPING | eBay

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

[/IMG]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

[/IMG]

 

[iBoostDSM]

I'd say Punishment Racing Intercooler. I have one and have no complaints about it. You also get to keep your fog lights if you care. And if you want to keep your crash beam just a little trimming is needed or you can just remove it. The rest of the instalation is painless.

 

[Force Fed 4g63]

I'd say Punishment Racing Intercooler. I have one and have no complaints about it. You also get to keep your fog lights if you care. And if you want to keep your crash beam just a little trimming is needed or you can just remove it. The rest of the instalation is painless.

x2, no cutting of anything on the car (besides the bumper) like the VRSF.

 

[dexterholland04]

Don't guess, look it up. The cheapest AFPR kit on extremepsi is $210. EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts. However, having an AFPR won't effect you hitting 400hp. It will effect idle and cruise drivability but not WOT.

You will NEED another clutch. My ACT 2100 started slipping with a 14b somewhere around 300hp. I would recommend you look into South Bend Clutches (which is what I am using now): TMZ Performance

What pistons do you have (Brand and CR)? I have 8.3:1 Wiseco's on the stock 6 bolt rods and I would feel comfortable with 4-500hp with my setup. It is largely in the tune.

You said you are using 91 octane gas? I would get a meth injection setup or switch to E85 if it is available in your area.

Try RCI for an AFPR, talk to BrokenTSI. He is the vendor for them. I'm sure he could beat ExtremePSIs price. I've had an Aeromotive and a Fuel Lab AFPR in the past and the RCI one is exactly like the Aeromotive. Frank at RCI machines them in-house and uses an Aeromotive diaphragm.

 

[gusu]

The ETS FMIC is a MUCH better kit than the Ebay brands.

You'd pick up a bit of power and maybe even spool because it's a true short route.

Plus the ETS kit is capable of more power with out heat soaking in the future. Why not spend the extra 300 (if you can) and get a kit you won't upgrade?

 

[dsmmichael]

The Punishment Racing and CX Racing FMIC's are one in the same. CX Racing makes them and Punishment Racing sells them under their name.

Thanks! I found some for pretty decent price! Thank you for your help!

 

[SOADweskey]

The one silent_white pictured is the same as the VSRF but with no J-pipe option. And also I did take my crash beam out to put it in but in the last fender bender I had the I/C worked great as a crash beam.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I just welded a new piece of square stock on it to mount it up after the radiator support was repaired and it is the same core that is on my car now.

Also I agree that if you have the money to spend then ETS is the best quality kit you are going to get.
ETS 95-99 Eclipse 2G DSM 7" Street Intercooler Kit They also make a huge 12" tall one.

 

[NHerron]

I couldn't find out for sure but, will the OP's stock trans be good for that hp? Whats the max on a stock manual

 

[dsmlover07]

I never knew of a actual hp number on transmissions, depends on how its driven, and some internals ,
tre has some nice specs on build options and different set ups. I ran through a few stock trans, lasted a while on my tsi, and gsx but my stage 3 sees over 400 hp, banging all day.

 

[NHerron]

Nice yeah I bought my dsm with sheps stage 3 so I figured what the he'll, better use her up! I have the same setup as OP so I've been following this thread for tips.

Is anyone here pumping 400hp on manual trans? I know the autos have run that but for how long?

 

[dansan1988]

There is a guy with a 1g down here that had about 450 to the wheels on a stock rebuilt manual trans. Beat on it daily...

 

[Silent_White]

ETS FMIC - 26x7x3" bar and plate core $729.75
VRSF FMIC - 28.5x10x3.5" bar and plate core $$289.99 + has short route piping

Both ETS and VSRF/EBAY FMIC are bar and plate aluminum. Calculating the volume of the core by the dimensions given by each manufactures web site, I calculated the cubic volume in inches of each intercooler.
ETS - 546" cubed
VRSF/EBAY - 997.5" cubed

So in short.. both intercoolers are aluminum bar and plate design.
The ETS is easier to mount. however, not true short route piping, 82.7% smaller core volume (will heat soak quicker). and costs $439.76 more.....
The VSRF/ EBAY takes about an hour more to mount/ requires a little more fab work to install. however, has a 997.5 cubic inch core volume, and true short route piping.

I've installed 4 of the Ebay ones, and all of them were quality built/ pressure tested. Don't knock it just because it came from ebay. Its just a bar and plate aluminum design. Some parts shouldn't be purchased off of ebay, like knockoff turbos. However I really don't see the difference for an intercooler. If they were both $729.. i'd still get the VSRF/EBAY intercooler.

 

[red_devil]

ETS FMIC - 26x7x3" bar and plate core $729.75
VRSF FMIC - 28.5x10x3.5" bar and plate core $$289.99 + has short route piping

Both ETS and VSRF/EBAY FMIC are bar and plate aluminum. Calculating the volume of the core by the dimensions given by each manufactures web site, I calculated the cubic volume in inches of each intercooler.
ETS - 546" cubed
VRSF/EBAY - 997.5" cubed

So in short.. both intercoolers are aluminum bar and plate design.
The ETS is easier to mount. however, not true short route piping, 82.7% smaller core volume (will heat soak quicker). and costs $439.76 more.....
The VSRF/ EBAY takes about an hour more to mount/ requires a little more fab work to install. however, has a 997.5 cubic inch core volume, and true short route piping.

I've installed 4 of the Ebay ones, and all of them were quality built/ pressure tested. Don't knock it just because it came from ebay. Its just a bar and plate aluminum design. Some parts shouldn't be purchased off of ebay, like knockoff turbos. However I really don't see the difference for an intercooler. If they were both $729.. i'd still get the VSRF/EBAY intercooler.

Its not all about volume. I love the VRSF one also but it does not perform like a ETS core.

 

[dsmmichael]

Question for you - if you're going to RRE to get tuned, I'm guessing you're in CA? Not sure why you don't have your car and location filled out in your profile, those are supposed to be required fields.

If you're in CA, be careful with all the suggestions on bigger injectors, that is, if you plan on trying to pass smog. You'll already have a tough time passing a visual, but the larger injectors make it tough to pass the sniffer. The rule of thumb is to stay on the smaller side, just big enough to deliver enough fuel for what you need and that's it. Don't just go and get the biggest injectors out there.

Cliffkemp sums it up pretty well. To hit that mark you need to run pretty high boost levels on a 16g (somewhere around to 30 psi I'd say), and it should be an Evo3 16 as opposed to a regular 16g. That means you have to run a meth kit with your 91, and if it's CA 91 it's worse than 91 elsewhere, or you need race gas or E85. All are somewhat inconvenient in their own way for a daily driver. Meth kits are bulky and require you to refill, E85 means you're always looking for stations that have it, and race gas is simply too expensive to run on a daily basis. If you have E85 stations all around you, go that route. But know that if you go out of your area you'll need to plan out where you'll be stopping to fill up.

Know that once you get to that level you're likely going to break things. Clutches don't last long, axles have a way of needing replacement, head gaskets let go, etc. The more power you make, the more stress you're putting on the entire driveline. Keep some money aside for all that. Nice choice on going to RRE, they've been around a long time and should do you well. If I were in SoCal, I'd go to them too.

Updated My profile information! Thanks for the heads up, didnt realize those fields when I registered via iphone.

Exactly! Out here in California passing smog can be very strict out here, as for fuel, I will have to have a meth injection. e85 stations are VERY limited, so that route would not be an option for me.
Once I get down all the things I need/install them i'll be taking it to RRE to have it tuned professional as well as have them do a full inspection and recommend what I should change/upgrade first.

x2, no cutting of anything on the car (besides the bumper) like the VRSF.

Thats exactly what i'm looking for, easy installation without going through the hassle of doing major modification.

This is the intercooler you want. It has short route piping, its cost effective, and huge.

2G ECLIPSE/TALON BOLT ON BAR&PLATE FRONT MOUNT ALUMINUM INTERCOOLER KIT PIPING | eBay

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

[/IMG]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

[/IMG]

Thanks! Huge help! does it come with J-pipe?

 

[Silent_White]

It doesnt come with a j-pipe, however you can get it on ebay as well for about $40.
STAINLESS DSM 16G TURBO/TURBOCHARGER J-PIPE 89-99 MIT ECLIPSE/TALON/LASER 4G63 | eBay

Here is a link with better pics of the install
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/maintenance-repairs/385163-vrsf-fmic-install-help.html

 

[eligst21]

Your goals just seem tough to do. Especially on pump calis 91 piss gas. Even with meth injection, i dont think you will hit 400. Like others stated, its feasible but you are bound to break something. And it costs good money to buy good parts to work. Way for you to reach youre goals is purchase a bigger turbo. But to max the 16 out, youd be looking at around upper 300s, close to youre goal. You just have to make sure everything else can take it.

But if you are still set on it, i would definately get the clutch. 2900 lb clutch would be good. Also i would reccomend a ets kit for youre fmic. They are a lot more expensive then the punishment or vrsf ic, but overall better quality. The vrsf work good too. It all depends on youre budget. But if you plan on putting a bigger turbo later, why not buy the right part first? I understand money is an issue and if you cant purchase it, the vrsf or punishment is a great core also.