ECMlink Help Me Shave .2 off My ET

[SBstar]

It's been said to align the syncro's but whether it does or not it seems to help me with the shifts. Before you light up the first yellow shift 1-2-3 and back 3-2-1. The 1-2 shift is hard to do "fast" when you're spinning, but as you improve the traction you'll improve that shift, and then remember to hit the next two hard and fast. Also with your tune comfortable give the boost controller a very slight twist to hit 21psi, you know most of us are and have been using that, you never know if that 1 psi will help you ever so slightly.

 

[agentorange313]

just wondering, how heavy are those aluminum avenger rims?

Can't go wrong with less unsprung weight.

 

[gofer]

Thats a good point too Lawrence, a set of 17x8 Evo IX BBS wheels weigh 17lbs a piece and they're 8" wide.

 

[daren_p]

There are defently better street tires then the KDW's (& some cheeper as well), but if thats what you have to run, we'll skip tires. Can't look at your log currently but there's defently room for improvement on your 60 alone (remember .1 off your 60 usually shaves ~.2 off the ET). Your 60's are slow, even for a fwd on street tires. I use to run 2.1X's with 225/40/18 Kumho MX rubber (had Quaife), with a 4000rpms launch. This was before I really got the hang of launching the car properly, I'm sure I could do abit better now. Your 17's will give you abit more sidewall, which is always a good thing.

I use to run around 20psi in them, which helped. Also the AVC-R, which has gear independent boost control was a big help (can be done in link now). Much better to be just under the edge of traction then breaking lose. Most say firm rear to prevent squat & soft front to help hop but also try firm front (change in wheel hop might be slim to none but may help further with weight transfer).

The biggest improvement I made was going from street tires to DR's.

 

[talondave]

I never put it to the floor in first gear, I would always feather it... I always had low tire pressure in the front, around 15psi or so! My fwd car at the time had some cheap ebay coil-overs on it, and I would raise the back, and drop the front when at the track....

Here's a time slip I found from over 6 years ago when I had my fwd, couldn't find my 13.1 run, but this was my second best!

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[9!'clipseDOHC]

It's been said to align the syncro's but whether it does or not it seems to help me with the shifts. Before you light up the first yellow shift 1-2-3 and back 3-2-1. The 1-2 shift is hard to do "fast" when you're spinning, but as you improve the traction you'll improve that shift, and then remember to hit the next two hard and fast. Also with your tune comfortable give the boost controller a very slight twist to hit 21psi, you know most of us are and have been using that, you never know if that 1 psi will help you ever so slightly.

I do the syncro alignment every now and then but I never have any trouble getting into gear, either way. I did a pull this afternoon working on the tune and it hit 21, I don't know why it was only hitting 20 at the track. I'm going to try the "washer" trick so I'll turn it down and then bring it back up to 21.

just wondering, how heavy are those aluminum avenger rims?

Can't go wrong with less unsprung weight.

I don't know the weight by themselves but I just pulled one wheel of weighed the rim/tire combo and it was 45-46 lbs. Seems kinda high to me but I don't have anything to compare it to.

Thats a good point too Lawrence, a set of 17x8 Evo IX BBS wheels weigh 17lbs a piece and they're 8" wide.

I would love a set of EVO wheels but that going to have to wait 'til these tires are no more.

There are defently better street tires then the KDW's (& some cheeper as well), but if thats what you have to run, we'll skip tires. Can't look at your log currently but there's defently room for improvement on your 60 alone (remember .1 off your 60 usually shaves ~.2 off the ET). Your 60's are slow, even for a fwd on street tires. I use to run 2.1X's with 225/40/18 Kumho MX rubber (had Quaife), with a 4000rpms launch. This was before I really got the hang of launching the car properly, I'm sure I could do abit better now. Your 17's will give you abit more sidewall, which is always a good thing.

I use to run around 20psi in them, which helped. Also the AVC-R, which has gear independent boost control was a big help (can be done in link now). Much better to be just under the edge of traction then breaking lose. Most say firm rear to prevent squat & soft front to help hop but also try firm front (change in wheel hop might be slim to none but may help further with weight transfer).

The biggest improvement I made was going from street tires to DR's.

I never put it to the floor in first gear, I would always feather it... I always had low tire pressure in the front, around 15psi or so! My fwd car at the time had some cheap ebay coil-overs on it, and I would raise the back, and drop the front when at the track....

Here's a time slip I found from over 6 years ago when I had my fwd, couldn't find my 13.1 run, but this was my second best!

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I'm surprised how many people have run 2.1-2.2 60's on FWD's with street tires. I've got some work to do. I'm going to try to go back to the strip this Friday or next, or maybe both. Should be upgrading to v3 Full and getting BBG in the next week or so.

I redid my globals and they went from -27 to -23.8 and the VE table lines up again. I'm at a little less then a 1/4 of a tank but I don't to fill back up in case the mixture is different again

EDIT - I just shimmed the wastegate actuator, if this works it will be the easiest mod I've ever done. I also found a pretty bad exhaust leak that I've been hearing for a little while. Its at the o2 sensor housing/downpipe gasket so I'll be fixing that too.

 

[agentorange313]

this was take from: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...ons/127313-dsm-curb-weight-faq-breakdown.html


Suspension/wheels/steering:
1G Stock Shocks, each: 12lbs
1G AWD KYB AGX rear struts, each: 5lbs
1G KYB AGX front struts, each: 8.5lbs
1G Stock Springs. each: 6lbs
5-spoke wheel, 1996 GS: 20lbs
95-96 Talon Swirl Rims, With 205-55-16 tire: about 42lbs
97 GSX wheels, 17x6.5, no tires, each: 25lbs
90 Laser stock 16" steel wheels w/very bald Sumitomo Srixon-4, 205/55 tires: 45lbs
90 Talon stock 16" aluminum swirl wheels w/70% tread, Goodyear Eagle RS-A 205/55 tires: 42lbs


45-46 does seem kinda high for weight, I would definitely look into getting new rims and new tires to compensate. I am saving up for a set of Enkei RFP1s, they are extremely light, weighing in at 15.5 lbs for 17x8 wheels. The rims will make up for the weight of my larger rotors and calipers.

 

[DJ23GSX]

I was thinking back to my old fwd days and had a nice conversation with some fwd guys that were running 15" wheels with slicks so they could fit a taller tire with more sidewall to them. They told me that my 17" low profile tires didn't have enough sidewall to them to properly wrinkle when launching even when I ran the air pressure in them really low. I never went to the track on my stock 16" rims with a taller sidewall tire but I did try some launching with them with low air pressure and it did seem to make a noticable difference for me. I could actually go wot in second gear with very little wheel spin which was impossible to do with the 235/45 17's.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

this was take from: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...ons/127313-dsm-curb-weight-faq-breakdown.html


Suspension/wheels/steering:
1G Stock Shocks, each: 12lbs
1G AWD KYB AGX rear struts, each: 5lbs
1G KYB AGX front struts, each: 8.5lbs
1G Stock Springs. each: 6lbs
5-spoke wheel, 1996 GS: 20lbs
95-96 Talon Swirl Rims, With 205-55-16 tire: about 42lbs
97 GSX wheels, 17x6.5, no tires, each: 25lbs
90 Laser stock 16" steel wheels w/very bald Sumitomo Srixon-4, 205/55 tires: 45lbs
90 Talon stock 16" aluminum swirl wheels w/70% tread, Goodyear Eagle RS-A 205/55 tires: 42lbs


45-46 does seem kinda high for weight, I would definitely look into getting new rims and new tires to compensate. I am saving up for a set of Enkei RFP1s, they are extremely light, weighing in at 15.5 lbs for 17x8 wheels. The rims will make up for the weight of my larger rotors and calipers.

I have a set of the 2g OZ Rally Edition OZ Racing 16" rims that I'm going to use for my slicks when I get them. You can see them in my avatar. Anyway, I weighed those after posting my last reply and they weigh 38 lbs with 205/55R16 tires.

I was thinking back to my old fwd days and had a nice conversation with some fwd guys that were running 15" wheels with slicks so they could fit a taller tire with more sidewall to them. They told me that my 17" low profile tires didn't have enough sidewall to them to properly wrinkle when launching even when I ran the air pressure in them really low. I never went to the track on my stock 16" rims with a taller sidewall tire but I did try some launching with them with low air pressure and it did seem to make a noticable difference for me. I could actually go wot in second gear with very little wheel spin which was impossible to do with the 235/45 17's.

With a 1g FWD with the single piston calipers you can even run as low as 13" rims. Talk about sidewall. If I was buying rims, that would be ideal, but I'm going to use my 16" OZ's to keep the cost down.

 

[DJ23GSX]

I have a set of the 2g OZ Rally Edition OZ Racing 16" rims that I'm going to use for my slicks when I get them. You can see them in my avatar. Anyway, I weighed those after posting my last reply and they weigh 38 lbs with 205/55R16 tires.


With a 1g FWD with the single piston calipers you can even run as low as 13" rims. Talk about sidewall. If I was buying rims, that would be ideal, but I'm going to use my 16" OZ's to keep the cost down.

Have you ever tried launching with those 16" rims and tires with low air pressure? They might be worth a shot next time out at the track assuming they have some decent rubber on them. I'm sure you could find a set of smaller wheels for your slicks rather cheap. A quick google search and it seems that 16" slicks are rather uncommon and don't come in many size options. Its littered with 14 and 15" sizes though.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Have you ever tried launching with those 16" rims and tires with low air pressure? They might be worth a shot next time out at the track assuming they have some decent rubber on them. I'm sure you could find a set of smaller wheels for your slicks rather cheap. A quick google search and it seems that 16" slicks are rather uncommon and don't come in many size options. Its littered with 14 and 15" sizes though.

No, the tires have been sitting for 6+ years now and are starting to crack.

I'm planning on running Hoosier Quick Time Pro's in 26x9.5x16. They are recommended for 6-8" wide rims.

 

[gofer]

No, the tires have been sitting for 6+ years now and are starting to crack.

I'm planning on running Hoosier Quick Time Pro's in 26x9.5x16. They are recommended for 6-8" wide rims.

Nate, you've probably already looked into it but I thought it might be worth mentioning, some tracks require additional safety mods to run a true slick. The local track here makes their own rules and with a TRUE slick they require extended studs and open lugs. Its not IAW the NHRA rulebook, at least that I've been able to find, but none the less thats how they tech slicks. You don't have to worry about the driveshaft loop bit at least...

This is what swayed my decision to run the Hoosier DR's, practically a slick but with one tread down the center so its considered a DR.

 

[daren_p]

No, the tires have been sitting for 6+ years now and are starting to crack.

I'm planning on running Hoosier Quick Time Pro's in 26x9.5x16. They are recommended for 6-8" wide rims.

What kind of power are you planning on making when you run these tires? Reason being they are a 26" tall tire & if your not making atleast 400whp min, might not be the best choice. At 400hp their still probably not the best choice.

Hoosier does make a 225/50/16 DR, which is what I ran. They were a huge improvement vs street tires, dropped 1.1 seconds off my ET with basically the same setup & there was more in them as well. Thier DR's have the softest sidewalls of any DR but are still not as soft (& won't be quite as good as a true slick) but as mentioned most slicks are 15" rims & under.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Nate, you've probably already looked into it but I thought it might be worth mentioning, some tracks require additional safety mods to run a true slick. The local track here makes their own rules and with a TRUE slick they require extended studs and open lugs. Its not IAW the NHRA rulebook, at least that I've been able to find, but none the less thats how they tech slicks. You don't have to worry about the driveshaft loop bit at least...

This is what swayed my decision to run the Hoosier DR's, practically a slick but with one tread down the center so its considered a DR.

I have never seen my local track inspect anything. However that is good info in case I go to any other tracks. I already have open lugs and extended studs should't be too hard to do. The QTP's are still considered DOT slicks, not sure if that matters for your tracks rules.

What kind of power are you planning on making when you run these tires? Reason being they are a 26" tall tire & if your not making atleast 400whp min, might not be the best choice. At 400hp their still probably not the best choice.

Hoosier does make a 225/50/16 DR, which is what I ran. They were a huge improvement vs street tires, dropped 1.1 seconds off my ET with basically the same setup & there was more in them as well. Thier DR's have the softest sidewalls of any DR but are still not as soft (& won't be quite as good as a true slick) but as mentioned most slicks are 15" rims & under.

I hear what you are saying and most things I have read support that. In a perfect world I would buy the rims and tires that work the best but since those Hoosiers are the only slicks I can find that mount on the stock sized wheels, that kind of swayed my decision.

There are several guys using these with great success, even in the lower power ranges, over on the FWD drag race thread. One guy specifically had an almost identical time as me earlier in the year (14.5@101 compared to my 14.3@101 at the time, both with 2.4 60's) and now with a Quaife, those 26" Hoosiers, and a few other mods (injectors and FMIC if I recall) is now running 12.9 @ 108 with a 1.9 60'.

Kiggly's advise was a 13" rim with a 24" tall tire and if anyone knows FWD's its him. I believe that he also said that DR's are worse on your drivetrain than full slicks.

I will keep considering the tire choice, including the Hoosier DRs. What was your best FWD 60' on the Hoosier DR's?

 

[daren_p]

Believe my best in fwd trim was a 12.5 @ 113-115 (can't recall exactly, its been a few years), with a 2.0 60ft. The 2.00 was my best but thats not a fair judge as I'm sure the tires had more in them but I ended up hurting my tranny & swapped to awd. Probably didn't have 10 passes on them & was just starting to get the hang of actually launching the car, sub 2's could defently be had.

Yes, a true slick is usually easier on the drivetrain as they have more sidewall give & are less likely to hop. As mentioned, for DR's the Hoosiers defently had the softest sidewalls of any out there. I ran them about 18psi & on a well prepped track, I had zero slip. Idea is to run them as high as you can with proper traction as reduced pressure will hurt top end. Thats one advantage of DR's, less rolling resistance, so if they hook properly, they will be the quicker vs a slick. I will say that I did go out on one of the season ender days so the air was cold, the track was cold & the prep wasn't up to its normal standards. I did have traction issues that day, not sure how much of a difference slicks would have made. I matched my previous best for ET (which was done on about a 100 deg day) but my 60 was abit slower (still under 2.1) & the trap speeds were higher as I was running more boost/making more power. Also I probably wasn't getting the tires hot enough. The DR's use a very soft compound (same as the QTP's) so they don't take much heat at all. I use to just to a quick 1st burn, just barely enough to see slight smoke at best, which was fine on warm days but probably not enough for the cold day.

QTP's aren't a true "slick" either, their just a bias-ply tire vs radial.

I went the DR route as 16" rims were the smallest rims I could run with my big brake setup. I figured the QTP's were abit too tall, so went the DR route.

 

[91stocker]

awd swap will shave more then .2 off

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Good news! I'm going to be going back to the track this Friday. I'm going to try to put the advice I've been getting in this tread to the test. I shimmed the wastegate (it will be set to 21 psi and hopefully will hold a little better), I'm going to rework the timing table a tad, I got my exhaust leak fixed, I'm going to over inflate the rear tires and experiment with lower pressures in the front, starting with 26 psi and working down. I'm also going to play with lowering the launch RPM. I had ordered a few items from JNZ, which is scheduled to arrive on Friday, so I'll hopefully be able to try the BR7ES plugs at the track too.

Believe my best in fwd trim was a 12.5 @ 113-115 (can't recall exactly, its been a few years), with a 2.0 60ft. The 2.00 was my best but thats not a fair judge as I'm sure the tires had more in them but I ended up hurting my tranny & swapped to awd. Probably didn't have 10 passes on them & was just starting to get the hang of actually launching the car, sub 2's could defently be had.

Yes, a true slick is usually easier on the drivetrain as they have more sidewall give & are less likely to hop. As mentioned, for DR's the Hoosiers defently had the softest sidewalls of any out there. I ran them about 18psi & on a well prepped track, I had zero slip. Idea is to run them as high as you can with proper traction as reduced pressure will hurt top end. Thats one advantage of DR's, less rolling resistance, so if they hook properly, they will be the quicker vs a slick. I will say that I did go out on one of the season ender days so the air was cold, the track was cold & the prep wasn't up to its normal standards. I did have traction issues that day, not sure how much of a difference slicks would have made. I matched my previous best for ET (which was done on about a 100 deg day) but my 60 was abit slower (still under 2.1) & the trap speeds were higher as I was running more boost/making more power. Also I probably wasn't getting the tires hot enough. The DR's use a very soft compound (same as the QTP's) so they don't take much heat at all. I use to just to a quick 1st burn, just barely enough to see slight smoke at best, which was fine on warm days but probably not enough for the cold day.

QTP's aren't a true "slick" either, their just a bias-ply tire vs radial.

I went the DR route as 16" rims were the smallest rims I could run with my big brake setup. I figured the QTP's were abit too tall, so went the DR route.

Thanks fot the info. Its a tough decision.

awd swap will shave more then .2 off

While I agree with you that it would, it is not an option.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I don't know what happened tonight.

First pass,

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. Wastegate was shimmed with 2 washers so I lowered the boost, this was my first pull since so I wan't sure where the boost was at. I don't know what happened to the log but according to it I wasn't moving until 3rd gear at which point I went from 0 MPH directly to 73 MPH. Yeah, I don't know either. Also I had dialed my fuel and SD table in perfectly during the week but I ran out of gas and threw 5 gallons of E85 in on the way to the track. Apparently the mixture is different again because my AFRatio and AFRatioEST were a full point off. I started with the tire pressure at 26 and my launch at 3,000. I bogged just a tad and then spun in first, got a 2.5 60'. The pass ended up being a 14.3 @111 which I figured wasn't a bad first pass.

Second pass,

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. I adjusted the global fuel to help everything line up. I moved it from -23.8 to -21.9. I also raised the boost a tad, lowered the tire pressure to 24 psi, and raised the launch back up to 3,500. Here is where it got crazy, I don't really know what happened. Either I was spinning all the way to the rev limiter in all 4 gears (including 4th at over 70 MPH), or there was a mechanical problem somewhere. At first while it was happening I thought I was spinning but when I went into 4th and it was still happening I began to think that there was a problem like I was in neutral or something. I coasted though at a 16 something at 80 something I think. I don't have the slips in front of me. Driving back to the pits it felt fine. Once back I opened the hood and it smelt like something was burning. I couldn't find where it was coming from but I smelled the tires and it didn't seem to be coming from them. I couldn't find any leaks and all the gauges read normal.

After that pass I decided to call it a night in case there was something wrong. The drive home the car felt 100% normal. I lifted it up and checked all around and everything looks and feels normal. Was I really spinning that much with 24 psi in the front tires? I've never really spun at all in fourth, even with full tire pressure, much less to the limiter. Can anyone figure out why the first log behaved like that or what was happening in the second log?

 

[daplatano91]

Nate, you've probably already looked into it but I thought it might be worth mentioning, some tracks require additional safety mods to run a true slick. The local track here makes their own rules and with a TRUE slick they require extended studs and open lugs. Its not IAW the NHRA rulebook, at least that I've been able to find, but none the less thats how they tech slicks. You don't have to worry about the driveshaft loop bit at least...

This is what swayed my decision to run the Hoosier DR's, practically a slick but with one tread down the center so its considered a DR.

Not sure if they enforce this around by you guys but you'll need to run metal valve stems as well.

Sounds to me like the clutch was slipping. (rpms not reflecting mph)

 

[1983gsp]

toasted clutch.....rotten luck. Time for an upgrade.

 

[RyanR79]

Its all driver dude

 

[SBstar]

That does sound like a slipping clutch Bummer man!

 

[DJ23GSX]

How long did you wait between your runs? The Act 2100 don't like to be launched too many times without cooling. Once it gets too hot it will slip like a fat man on ice.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Not sure if they enforce this around by you guys but you'll need to run metal valve stems as well.

Sounds to me like the clutch was slipping. (rpms not reflecting mph)

Good info on the valve stem seals. Yeah I had so many things going through my head and I never even thought about the clutch. I've had that little 2100 for 6 years now and it has worked great.

toasted clutch.....rotten luck. Time for an upgrade.

I will deffenitly be upgrading the clutch. I'll do some more researching but I'll most likely go with an ACT 2600.

Its all driver dude

A slipping 6 year old clutch is all driver? Thanks. WTF

That does sound like a slipping clutch Bummer man!

It is a bummer but not the end of the world. I'll get this squared away and get back out there.

How long did you wait between your runs? The Act 2100 don't like to be launched too many times without cooling. Once it gets too hot it will slip like a fat man on ice.

It was 36 minutes between those two passes. I usually try to wait about 30 minutes or so between passes.

 

[91stocker]

Did you fix the boost dropping off at redline? Or were those runs with no changes made?