ECMlink Help Me Shave .2 off My ET

[DJ23GSX]

Its the washers.

It sure is. My stock actuator was so weak it couldn't even hold the flapper shut at all without atleast 2 washers on each bolt and even then it would only hold 7-8psi on just wastegate pressure. It sounds like yours is a good bit stronger than mine was. Have you done a BLT lately?

 

[JusMX141]

I tried 4 washers on each bolt today and it still fell to 17.2 by 5,6XX RPM. The odd thing is that that was at wastegate pressure. I'm using the new boost by gear solenoid (in place of my MBC) with it set to zero (so open all the time) and in second gear the boost went straight to 16.7 psi and I started spinning like crazy. In third it went straight to 19.1 and then fell to 17.2 at 5,6XX and 15.1 by 6,2XX. I'm hoping its just the washers making it build so much at wastegate pressure. I'm going to pull them all off and try again later. If it's boosting this high at wastegate pressure and I'm still all out spinning in second, the BBG isn't going to help one bit.

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...oking-strong-internal-wastegate-actuator.html

 

[jrohner]

Get a holset actuator and make it fit your turbo. It's not that hard to do and it does help. You'll probably run around 20psi with no boost controller. I could only hold 22psi on my 16G, then I switched actuators and switched to ecu-controlled boost (with a 2g fuel pressure solenoid) and was able to hold >28psi (I think 6300rpms was where my boost was the lowest).

My 2G, having AWD and wider tires over you, I still had to lower air pressure to 22/18 to keep wheel spin reasonable. Same goes for my lighter auto 1G GSX.

I think 16" wheels & tires would help you, as the extra sidewall should promote forward bite.

 

[DJ23GSX]

You'll probably run around 20psi with no boost controller.

Thats going do defeat the boost by gear that he's trying to achieve and being FWD 20psi in 1st and 2nd gear will only create lots of unwanted wheel spin.

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...oking-strong-internal-wastegate-actuator.html

From my research and experience with a stronger actuator on the 14b is that its still very common for the boost to fall off in the upper rpm's. I've even spoken to a few 14b guys that have boost fall off even with an external gate. I guess it just the nature of the 14b but its weird though cause some guys (phil beers comes to mind) can hold 20psi to redline on the 14b no problem. I wonder if having the smaller 90 cams in his car would make it hold boost to redline better.? From what I've been told even though the boost is falling on the boost gauge your not actually losing air flow its just that your engine is taking in more air than the 14b can flow to keep the psi up on the gauge. Did that make sense? My stronger Garrett actuator def helped my situation but that's only cause my stock actuator was very weak. Even with the stronger actuator and shorter arm I still experience the boost fall off in the upper rpm's on my 14b.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

It sure is. My stock actuator was so weak it couldn't even hold the flapper shut at all without atleast 2 washers on each bolt and even then it would only hold 7-8psi on just wastegate pressure. It sounds like yours is a good bit stronger than mine was. Have you done a BLT lately?

I do boost leak tests quite often. No leaks up to 25 psi.

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...oking-strong-internal-wastegate-actuator.html

That could possibly help out with part of my issue, but I believe it would make the other part worse. I want to hold my boost to redline, but I also want to lower my wastgate pressure. I know, I'm asking for a lot.

Get a holset actuator and make it fit your turbo. It's not that hard to do and it does help. You'll probably run around 20psi with no boost controller. I could only hold 22psi on my 16G, then I switched actuators and switched to ecu-controlled boost (with a 2g fuel pressure solenoid) and was able to hold >28psi (I think 6300rpms was where my boost was the lowest).

My 2G, having AWD and wider tires over you, I still had to lower air pressure to 22/18 to keep wheel spin reasonable. Same goes for my lighter auto 1G GSX.

I think 16" wheels & tires would help you, as the extra sidewall should promote forward bite.

See above, I'm also trying to lower my wastegate pressure. I'm already hitting 20 psi at wastegate pressure with the wastegate shimmed, I want to go the other direction.

Thats going do defeat the boost by gear that he's trying to achieve and being FWD 20psi in 1st and 2nd gear will only create lots of unwanted wheel spin.

Exactly!

From my research and experience with a stronger actuator on the 14b is that its still very common for the boost to fall off in the upper rpm's. I've even spoken to a few 14b guys that have boost fall off even with an external gate. I guess it just the nature of the 14b but its weird though cause some guys (phil beers comes to mind) can hold 20psi to redline on the 14b no problem. I wonder if having the smaller 90 cams in his car would make it hold boost to redline better.? From what I've been told even though the boost is falling on the boost gauge your not actually losing air flow its just that your engine is taking in more air than the 14b can flow to keep the psi up on the gauge. Did that make sense? My stronger Garrett actuator def helped my situation but that's only cause my stock actuator was very weak. Even with the stronger actuator and shorter arm I still experience the boost fall off in the upper rpm's on my 14b.

I agree.

 

[jrohner]

Of course boost is going to fall off, it's a small turbo with a really small turbine housing. A better WGA does help at least a couple psi though.

 

[DJ23GSX]

Of course boost is going to fall off, it's a small turbo with a really small turbine housing. A better WGA does help at least a couple psi though.

Actually my boost didn't fall off at all on the stock 6cm 14b turbine housing when I was only running 17-18psi. It wasn't till after installing the bigger evo3 7cm turbine housing on my 14b with the bigger wastegate hole/flapper door that I started to experience the boost falling roughly 2-3psi by redline with the stock actuator and boost controller set to 17psi. With my weak stock actuator on the 7cm turbine housing the more I raised the boost the more psi I would lose by redline. When I was trying to run 20psi on the stock actuator my boost was falling to around 14psi by redline . To make matters even worse on just wastege pressure with my stock actuator the bigger flapper door on the 7cm housing would blow wide open and boost would fall straight to 0 by 5k rpms I agree the stronger WGA def helped me but even still with the 7cm housing I see the boost fall a few psi by redline no matter how tight/short I adjust the actuator arm. Even with the boost falling off I can't feel any loss in power so I just live with it .

 

[SBstar]

However, I with the 7cm housing do not see boost falling off. This is the smaller style flapper being that the housing is from a big 16g. I hold 21psi steady through 7k.

 

[DJ23GSX]

However, I with the 7cm housing do not see boost falling off. This is the smaller style flapper being that the housing is from a big 16g. I hold 21psi steady through 7k.

I'm just curious but are you still running the stock 90 cam's? It would be quite the coincidence if both you and phil can hold 20+psi to red line and your both running the smaller 90 cam's. My last dsm was a 90 with stock cams with a s16 running 22psi and I could def feel it fall on its face above 6k due to the small cams. After installing some web street cams it pulled right up to redline and maybe a bit farther if I let it. Also after putting in the bigger cams without touching anything else I noticed that my boost dropped about 3-4psi from where it was set on the stock cams. I'd assume thats because the web cams opened up air flow a good bit over the stockers. In all honesty if your not seeing a drop off in lbs/min in the upper rpm's then the falling boost on the boost gauge isn't that big of a deal. The 14b is just too small to maintain enough pressure in the system to register on the boost gauge. Like everyone says psi don't mean squat its the actual airflow that counts.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I haven't gotten a chance to mess with the wastegate actuator or dial in the BBG because I've been busy with a fusebox relocation but I have some very good news! I just ordered a pair of Hoosier 225/50/16 DOT drag radials!!! I'm looking to be back at the track on November 11th.

 

[SBstar]

I'm just curious but are you still running the stock 90 cam's? It would be quite the coincidence if both you and phil can hold 20+psi to red line and your both running the smaller 90 cam's. My last dsm was a 90 with stock cams with a s16 running 22psi and I could def feel it fall on its face above 6k due to the small cams. After installing some web street cams it pulled right up to redline and maybe a bit farther if I let it. Also after putting in the bigger cams without touching anything else I noticed that my boost dropped about 3-4psi from where it was set on the stock cams. I'd assume thats because the web cams opened up air flow a good bit over the stockers. In all honesty if your not seeing a drop off in lbs/min in the upper rpm's then the falling boost on the boost gauge isn't that big of a deal. The 14b is just too small to maintain enough pressure in the system to register on the boost gauge. Like everyone says psi don't mean squat its the actual airflow that counts.

92 cams in my car. I have 264/272's in the car now but I'm having knock issues so I couldn't say how bad it falls off now.

Awesome on the drag radials Nate! Go get it done!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I guess I should update this thread. The drag radials helped a ton! Thanks for all the help and advice! First time out at the track on the drag radials I went 13.1 @ 110. Forget shaving .2 seconds off, I shaved an entire second off my time! And there is still more left! My 13.1 pass I bogged a little and was still on wastegate pressure in first and second. 12's should be in the bag when I go again on Friday!

Here is more info on my trip to the track on my build thread: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/418713-9-eclipse-n-t-turbo-fwd-street-drag-autox.html#post152785687

Here is the 13.1 second video:
13.1 @ 110 - YouTube

And here is the time slip info:

Pass - 60' - 1/8 ET - MPH - 1/4 ET - MPH - Time - Notes
1 - 2.404 - 9.536 - 76.87 - 14.398 - 102.13 - 7:59 - Tire pressure 20, boost 1st: 14.8 2nd: 17.2 3rd: 16.0 4th: 17.9
2 - 2.333 - 9.501 - 83.05 - 14.149 - 105.83 - 8:09 - Tire pressure 20, boost 1st: 13.9 2nd: 16.0 3rd: 17.6 4th: 17.9
3 - 2.537 - 9.533 - 83.67 - 14.157 - 106.63 - 8:24 - Tire pressure 18, boost 1st: 15.1 2nd: 15.5 3rd: 17.2 4th: 18.1
4 - ????? - 8.819 - ??.??? - 13.352 - 109.27 - 8:51 - Tire pressure 18, boost 1st: 15.3 2nd: 15.3 3rd: 17.9 4th: 18.4
5 - 2.296 - 8.920 - 86.50 - 13.446 - 109.64 - 9:16 - Tire pressure 18, boost 1st: 15.5 2nd: 15.3 3rd: 18.8 4th: 19.8
6 - 2.208 - 8.697 - 87.54 - 13.181 - 110.61 - 9:33 - Tire pressure 18, boost 1st: 15.3 2nd: 15.5 3rd: 20.2 4th: 21.2

Also I weighed my rim/tire combo and it's 37 lbs, down from 45-46 for my street tire/rim combo.

So, help me shave .2 off my 1/4 mile and get me into the 12's!

 

[gofer]

Great run, looked nice and smooth man. Lisa (my girlfriend) damn near punched me after I started that video this morning. Usually I like some tire good burnout videos but, for whatever reason, those tires squealing in the burnout pit sounded like nails on a chalkboard.

Time for 12's Nate. I was stuck at 12 flats for 6 or 7 back to back runs and then, as I was waiting in line to get into the burnout box, a good DSM friend came up to my window and said "don't be a ####y." Best advice I could have gotten and all the way up to the tree I kept repeating it to myself, after the run I got my time slip and it was an 11.6.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Great run, looked nice and smooth man. Lisa (my girlfriend) damn near punched me after I started that video this morning. Usually I like some tire good burnout videos but, for whatever reason, those tires squealing in the burnout pit sounded like nails on a chalkboard.

Time for 12's Nate. I was stuck at 12 flats for 6 or 7 back to back runs and then, as I was waiting in line to get into the burnout box, a good DSM friend came up to my window and said "don't be a ####y." Best advice I could have gotten and all the way up to the tree I kept repeating it to myself, after the run I got my time slip and it was an 11.6.

Thanks! Good advice, I'll try that next time. Also I'm noticing in the video it take me a while to build up the boost in first, you can hear it. I was told the other day by a local DSMer (who knows his stuff) that if you manually pedal the RPM's at the line that it dial build more boost then the 2 step. I'll give it a try because looking at my logs I'm leaving the line without boost. A higher launch RPM, which I'm going to do anyway, would help with that too.

Also you can see in the vid, and I felt it driving too, that it's running out of steam in fourth gear. It's not pulling as hard after the 3-4 shift as it used to. I'm assuming it has to do with the tires.