ECMlink Help Me Shave .2 off My ET

[1983gsp]

Try lowering tire pressure. I ran 19lbs in the front and 45 lbs in the rear on my fwd. Ditch the waterbox and do a very short burnout. No massive tire smoking burnout, but just enough to make a haze. You want them warm and not hot...street tires get greasy when heated to much. Preload the drivetrain at 3000 rpm and feather the clutch out of the hole. Seat time is the best teacher, but that's what worked for me and my 2.0 60ft.

 

[bastarddsm]

You need probably 2-3* more timing. What tires are you running? Try making some limiter straps for the front.

As far as winter E85, somewhere floating on the internet is a chart that shows when each state should run what grade of E85. If your going to run E85 you should consider putting a sample tap, and getting a test kit, so you can check it often. I've gotten some in the summer that was only E65, and boy did that throw off the maps. The richer AFR's wond affect power much, put it really ####s timing. I had to pull a bunch out. like 3-4*.

Also, if your playing with the tune, make sure your tuning for better mph, and not ET. You might consider reading up on reading your plugs and take a look at what you got. It helped me a bunch.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Drag radials are street tires and should be a huge improvement for 60'. I have no plans on ever drag racing my eclipse but I do lots of 1/8th mile in my Camaro and tires make all the difference. I gained a full .5 in my 60' once I could get consistent traction at the launch.

I agree that drag radials or slicks would help me a lot, but this is a true street car and drag radials won't cut it for wear on the street or my monthly autox events. Once I make it into the 13's I plan on getting a a pair of Hoosier QTP's for the drag strip, but for the time being its just going to be my 225/45ZR17 BFG G-Force KDWs.

Try lowering tire pressure. I ran 19lbs in the front and 45 lbs in the rear on my fwd. Ditch the waterbox and do a very short burnout. No massive tire smoking burnout, but just enough to make a haze. You want them warm and not hot...street tires get greasy when heated to much. Preload the drivetrain at 3000 rpm and feather the clutch out of the hole. Seat time is the best teacher, but that's what worked for me and my 2.0 60ft.

I started lowering pressure at this past trip to the track. I started with 32 psi and dropped it down to 28 which is where I ran the 2.3 60'. I then dropped them down to 26. And tried to pre-load (for the first time ever) the drivetrain and ended up red lighting and then my time slip wouldn't even print so I have no idea what my 60' was. I will keep expirimenting with front tire pressures and also try overinflating the rears next time. I always avoid the water box. I tired expirmenting with small burnouts back in May and saw no improvment to my 60' times so I stopped. Of course that was back with the open diff. My tires get pretty warm with all the spinning on the track anyway. At autox events I even spray my tires to reduce some of the heat.

Was that FWD 2.0 60' on street tires? If so it is quite impressive!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

You need probably 2-3* more timing. What tires are you running? Try making some limiter straps for the front.

As far as winter E85, somewhere floating on the internet is a chart that shows when each state should run what grade of E85. If your going to run E85 you should consider putting a sample tap, and getting a test kit, so you can check it often. I've gotten some in the summer that was only E65, and boy did that throw off the maps. The richer AFR's wond affect power much, put it really ####s timing. I had to pull a bunch out. like 3-4*.

Also, if your playing with the tune, make sure your tuning for better mph, and not ET. You might consider reading up on reading your plugs and take a look at what you got. It helped me a bunch.

Thanks for the reply! I'm getting the feeling that my timing isn't as aggresive as I originally thought it was and will be tweaking it. My tires are 225/45ZR17 BFG G-Force T/A KDWs. Not exactly ideal for drag but its all I've got to work with for now.

I've been setting my suspension to full stiff in the rear and full soft in the front. Is this ideal? I have looked in to limiters up front and it seems like if they would work, it should also help to adjust the front struts to stiff too. Am I looking at that wrong? Suspension has never been my strong suit.

I tried to get one of those E85 testers in the past but I was having errors with my paypal and could never finish the transaction. I will try again as I agree that it would help.

How would I tune speciffically for MPH? I am familiar with reading the plugs; I will pull them out and check them soon. I am currently running the stock BPR6ES plugs but I just ordered a set of BR7ES (non-projected) so I will see if they help any.

 

[daplatano91]

Do you have any video of the car launching I'd love to see if your front is lifting causing the loss of traction. I might have a neat cheap remedy if that's the case.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Do you have any video of the car launching I'd love to see if your front is lifting causing the loss of traction. I might have a neat cheap remedy if that's the case.

Here is my youtube channel: YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.. I have a bunch of videos with the open differential, including the 14.1 second pass. I haven't uploaded any of the ones from Friday yet but I have one cell phone vid from a friend of my first pass of the night (a 14.7 with a 2.6 60' and lots of spin/hop) and a roof mounted video of the 14.2 (with the angle you won't see much as far as lift). I will try to upload those tomorrow.

 

[daplatano91]

I guess the video with you and that AWD doesn't give much justice because it didn't show much signs of wheel spin(white smoke, car lunging back etc). I know with my Fwd when I'd wheel spin you can tell from video. You'd see tire smoke car tracking side to side and the rpms would be in the sky. Try chaining up your lower control arm to the from chassis the keep as minimal lift as possible. I know that helped a ton for me as well as running 600# springs in the rear. Also try upping your launch limiter you might surprise your self how easy it is to fix that 60ft time. Check my 60s from my past time slips on here and my facebook if you need reassurance. But like you said slicks would do you a world of wonders.

 

[phunny]

I can't view the log where I'm at but from what I'm reading you are maxing out at 19* timing. Without some HD's in there I would have serious concern about melting your pistons with any more than that. I'm thinking your best bet is to upgrade to the full version and try boost by gear.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I guess the video with you and that AWD doesn't give much justice because it didn't show much signs of wheel spin(white smoke, car lunging back etc). I know with my Fwd when I'd wheel spin you can tell from video. You'd see tire smoke car tracking side to side and the rpms would be in the sky. Try chaining up your lower control arm to the from chassis the keep as minimal lift as possible. I know that helped a ton for me as well as running 600# springs in the rear. Also try upping your launch limiter you might surprise your self how easy it is to fix that 60ft time. Check my 60s from my past time slips on here and my facebook if you need reassurance. But like you said slicks would do you a world of wonders.

That is ArticTSi, a long time member on here and I think he used to have the 14b record way back when. That race was after his car had been in storage for a long time and even thoguh he beat me over a second, we both trapped the same MPH. The 14.1 and 14.3 videos should give you a good idea of the amount of spin and if there is lift or not. I will try to upload the most resent ones with the LSD tomorrow.

I have lower contorl arm poly bushings. I'm not sure what else you are suggesting I do with them. I had the launch set at 4k but after the spinning and hoping I turned it down to 3.5k and that's when I got my best 60' (2.3). I really don't think turning it back up will help anything.

I saw your 2.2 60' slips. Was that on street tires, drag radials, or slicks?

 

[daplatano91]

The 2.2+ was on street tires 1.9 and better were full slicks. I'm not sure if you've seen Kevin's (Kiggly)suspension setup. He runs a chain off the chassis in the wheel well to the lower control arm. Theoretical limiting the amount the lower control arm can flex downward under hard acceleration. The less the body lifts the more weight stays on the wheels the better traction your going to get.

 

[SBstar]

I think he's referring to limiting straps such as Nate Crisman uses / suggests. Not sure how well they would work on a fwd with street tires. But, you could make them easy to add at the track and remove before you head home. Here's Nate's info on it. Limiting straps

You could try more timing but I wouldn't go too much higher. I maxed out at 21* and with a nice little spike in boost we all know how that turned out on cheap/unforged internals. Looking at the fastest small turbo guys on E85 they aren't running super high timing. Obviously some of them are running high compression motors which explains part of the reason why, I'm also convinced you don't need to go crazy with it. Slapping it on a dyno would be the only way to know for sure.

The log looks interesting with the wheel spin haha. Timing seems to peak around 18, maybe try adding a degree up top and see if you see a difference. Which input is your wideband on? Is the AFR input? If so it looks like your AFR's are in the mid 12's which seems fine, I wouldn't go any leaner. I would try the BPR7es for spark plugs, my car seems to like them alot better then the 6's.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I can't view the log where I'm at but from what I'm reading you are maxing out at 19* timing. Without some HD's in there I would have serious concern about melting your pistons with any more than that. I'm thinking your best bet is to upgrade to the full version and try boost by gear.

I do have forged pistons but I have no desire to push my tune outside of the "safe" zone and risk blowing my motor. My timing does top out 19* but the 19* starts at 7,000 RPMs which I don't even reach on a drag pass.

The 2.2+ was on street tires 1.9 and better were full slicks. I'm not sure if you've seen Kevin's (Kiggly)suspension setup. He runs a chain off the chassis in the wheel well to the lower control arm. Theoretical limiting the amount the lower control arm can flex downward under hard acceleration. The less the body lifts the more weight stays on the wheels the better traction your going to get.

Ok cool! Very impressive. How do you set up your suspension? Would it make sense to have it full stiff front and rear? I will look more into the limiting straps.

I think he's referring to limiting straps such as Nate Crisman uses / suggests. Not sure how well they would work on a fwd with street tires. But, you could make them easy to add at the track and remove before you head home. Here's Nate's info on it. Limiting straps

You could try more timing but I wouldn't go too much higher. I maxed out at 21* and with a nice little spike in boost we all know how that turned out on cheap/unforged internals. Looking at the fastest small turbo guys on E85 they aren't running super high timing. Obviously some of them are running high compression motors which explains part of the reason why, I'm also convinced you don't need to go crazy with it. Slapping it on a dyno would be the only way to know for sure.

The log looks interesting with the wheel spin haha. Timing seems to peak around 18, maybe try adding a degree up top and see if you see a difference. Which input is your wideband on? Is the AFR input? If so it looks like your AFR's are in the mid 12's which seems fine, I wouldn't go any leaner. I would try the BPR7es for spark plugs, my car seems to like them alot better then the 6's.

My wideband is named AFR. I actually have my target AFR set to 12.1 I think, but it was running mid 12 AFRs due to the E85 change. I will get that corrected. I'm going to give the BR7ES plugs a chance, I have heard some really good things about using them with E85. That log had the least amount of wheel spin out of all 5 of my passes. If you think that looks interesting, you should see some of the other logs, .

 

[daplatano91]

Ok cool! Very impressive. How do you set up your suspension? Would it make sense to have it full stiff front and rear? I will look more into the limiting straps.

I have Megan coilovers so what I do is set my rear a half inch higher than the front and I set the front shocks to 4 and rear to 1(1 being stiffest 32 softest). The limiting straps and and stiff spring rates of the coilovers made a world of difference for me though. If its not in your budget for full coilovers you might want to look into the ground force kit and request a 600# rear springs and 450-500# front.

 

[phunny]

I meant some HD pistons not just forged. On your plugs, I've used the 7's and 8's without noticing a difference, just make sure you have a tight gap. Mine will break up on anything over .020.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I have Megan coilovers so what I do is set my rear a half inch higher than the front and I set the front shocks to 4 and rear to 1(1 being stiffest 32 softest). The limiting straps and and stiff spring rates of the coilovers made a world of difference for me though. If its not in your budget for full coilovers you might want to look into the ground force kit and request a 600# rear springs and 450-500# front.

Oh ok. I might want to try a little stiffer in the front, I've been using 1 out of 4 which is full soft.

I meant some HD pistons not just forged. On your plugs, I've used the 7's and 8's without noticing a difference, just make sure you have a tight gap. Mine will break up on anything over .020.

I know what you meant I was just clarifying that I'm not on stock pistons. Those 7's and 8's that you are referring to, are they the standard projected or the non-projected? I have read a lot about people having good results with the non-projected on here, the e85 threads, and the dsmlink forums. I'm going to give them a try.

 

[bastarddsm]

I've been setting my suspension to full stiff in the rear and full soft in the front. Is this ideal? I have looked in to limiters up front and it seems like if they would work, it should also help to adjust the front struts to stiff too. Am I looking at that wrong? Suspension has never been my strong suit.

I tried to get one of those E85 testers in the past

How would I tune speciffically for MPH? I am familiar with reading the plugs;

I'd probably go full stiff on the front too. Ideally you would want super hard rebound, and average compression to help you not weight transfer. Basically the opposite of the old 90/10 drag shocks. The AGX's adjuster controlls both, so cranks her full hard to slow down the rebound an keep the nose down! The limiter straps you'll have to experiment with as I don't think many have actually done it. Maybe look around in the honda crowd. The idea is to limit the suspension travel so that the front end doesn't rise and unload the tires. Our cars have some funky antidive, that I think bones the fwd cars for acceleration.

I can't find the link, but somewhere I saw an article about using some plain test tubes to check the ethanol % in E85, you might search for that too.

For tuning for MPH all your doing is just make a easy take off pass, but running it out the back door hard. MPH is a direct indicator of your hp, so if your tuning helped it will run more mph, if it hurt it, it will run less. Driver error has little effect on the trap speed, where if you were tuning for ET, everything effects that. Example, last time I was at the strip, I made about 15 passes, between 14.00 and 11.75, my mph was 120-121 on every pass

Definatly give it some more timing. I used to run the stock maps on a 9:1 motor on a 16g with the WG welded shut. Now with my holset, I'm in the 14-17 range at 30psi. You will probably want more because of the somewhat restricted hotside. Theory is that the more charge dillution (exhaust that can't get out), the slower the burn rate, and therefore more timing is needed.

I'd say if you get to 22-23* thats probably enough and your not going to gain much afterwards.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I'd probably go full stiff on the front too. Ideally you would want super hard rebound, and average compression to help you not weight transfer. Basically the opposite of the old 90/10 drag shocks. The AGX's adjuster controlls both, so cranks her full hard to slow down the rebound an keep the nose down! The limiter straps you'll have to experiment with as I don't think many have actually done it. Maybe look around in the honda crowd. The idea is to limit the suspension travel so that the front end doesn't rise and unload the tires. Our cars have some funky antidive, that I think bones the fwd cars for acceleration.

I can't find the link, but somewhere I saw an article about using some plain test tubes to check the ethanol % in E85, you might search for that too.

For tuning for MPH all your doing is just make a easy take off pass, but running it out the back door hard. MPH is a direct indicator of your hp, so if your tuning helped it will run more mph, if it hurt it, it will run less. Driver error has little effect on the trap speed, where if you were tuning for ET, everything effects that. Example, last time I was at the strip, I made about 15 passes, between 14.00 and 11.75, my mph was 120-121 on every pass

Definatly give it some more timing. I used to run the stock maps on a 9:1 motor on a 16g with the WG welded shut. Now with my holset, I'm in the 14-17 range at 30psi. You will probably want more because of the somewhat restricted hotside. Theory is that the more charge dillution (exhaust that can't get out), the slower the burn rate, and therefore more timing is needed.

I'd say if you get to 22-23* thats probably enough and your not going to gain much afterwards.

I'll try it full stiff in the front next time. I'l also keep looking into the limiter straps, although with the AGX's on full stiff the car doesn't move much at all. Ok, that makes sense on the MPH tuning. Thanks for the advice on the timing!

Do you have any video of the car launching I'd love to see if your front is lifting causing the loss of traction. I might have a neat cheap remedy if that's the case.

My first pass of the night on Friday, first pass ever on the Quaife. Sorry about the cell phone quality. Launch was at 4,000 RPM's, 2.6 60', lots of spin. I can't really see the front end lifting up.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WChYSp_mKbk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

My best pass of the night on Friday. You can see it shuddering but the camera doesn't do it justice. On this pass the it was hopping so much the wipers came all the way on high. Launch was at 3,500 RPm's 2.3 60'.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aUpzl97-ows?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[black_gst]

Oh ok. I might want to try a little stiffer in the front, I've been using 1 out of 4 which is full soft.


I know what you meant I was just clarifying that I'm not on stock pistons. Those 7's and 8's that you are referring to, are they the standard projected or the non-projected? I have read a lot about people having good results with the non-projected on here, the e85 threads, and the dsmlink forums. I'm going to give them a try.

i run the non projected plugs and noticed less blow out issues and miss fires with e85 i think the shorter plug keeps is away from getting soaked with fuel esp with E85

 

[daplatano91]

Wow those videos have a heck of alot of wheel spin. What type of street tires are you running again?

 

[talondave]

Just need a little more seat time! I ran a best of 13.1 @ 108mph in my old fwd laser, on shitty cooper tires! mods were; 50 trim, 550cc injectors, 190 fuel pump, safc2, and a crappy ebay frontmount..... That was it. I think on that pass I had a 2.1 60ft!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Wow those videos have a heck of alot of wheel spin. What type of street tires are you running again?

225/45ZR17 BFG G-Force T/A KDWs on 17x6.5" Dodge Avenger wheels. They work pretty good for Autox, but no so well for the strip.

Just need a little more seat time! I ran a best of 13.1 @ 108mph in my old fwd laser, on shitty cooper tires! mods were; 50 trim, 550cc injectors, 190 fuel pump, safc2, and a crappy ebay frontmount..... That was it. I think on that pass I had a 2.1 60ft!

That is very impressive. Any other tips for on how to nail a 2.1 60'? Can you walk me though your old launch with suspension and tire pressure settings?

 

[gofer]

Posted this on Link, thought it could do some good in here too.

The best advice my buddy Kris ever gave me was to quit shifting like a 12 year old school girl and act like I'm trying to run an 11.

I'm not sure what your routine is before you get to the tree but NEVER drive through the burnout box on street tires. Drive around it, when they signal you to the line get the RPM's up a bit and spin the tires dry for a second, then stage. This should give you a few seconds (while the jackass in the other lane is rolling smoke out of their fenders) to think about what you need to do in the next 13 seconds. Shift points, NLTS, shifting like a bad ass, going off the 3rd yellow, etc.

Don't put that 13 second pass up on a pedestal like an 12th grader and their highschool crush, you'll never get the prom date if you do.

GL man!

 

[compression]

Posted this on Link, thought it could do some good in here too.

i would have to agree, if you had used nlts in all your shifts, thats more then likely 2/10's of a second or more , maybe with the exception of 1-2 shift.

 

[JusMX141]

FWD tips for a good E.T. on street tires:

- Lower front tire pressure to 15-20psi to get some sidewall bite then air the rear tires up as far as you feel comfortable (50-55psi normally).

- Make the rear suspension as stiff as possible to keep weight on the front end. As the car beings to move, the front end will naturally become very light.

- Add an LSD (I know you already have one).

- Do the AWD intermediate shaft mod to keep torque-steer under control.

- Set up some type of dual-stage boost controller to keep your boost at or below 15psi until you grab second gear.

- If you have Link V3, I believe you can also set it up so the launch control stays engaged until the wheel speed reaches a certain point. This will obviously benefit an AWD more than a FWD because as soon as a FWD loses traction the wheel speeds go up drastically. You can't really avoid this, but if you combine this with everything listed above you should get your 60ft time down a little. A better 60ft is going to lower your E.T. substantially.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Posted this on Link, thought it could do some good in here too.

Thanks Corey! Like I said on 'Link, I don't mean to put 13's on a pedestal but they have eluded me for so long that it just happened. My goal when I did the turbo swap last spring/summer was to run 13's and i'm still chasing it. That's not the end goal though. Once I hit them I will buy a pair of slicks and push on for 12's with the 14b.

i would have to agree, if you had used nlts in all your shifts, thats more then likely 2/10's of a second or more , maybe with the exception of 1-2 shift.

I agree that using the NLTS felt faster then my normal shifts and I will make myself use it more. It just feels weird to me as I'm not used to it at all. In fact I've had Link since spring and this was the first time I have ever even tried it.

FWD tips for a good E.T. on street tires:

- Lower front tire pressure to 15-20psi to get some sidewall bite then air the rear tires up as far as you feel comfortable (50-55psi normally).

- Make the rear suspension as stiff as possible to keep weight on the front end. As the car beings to move, the front end will naturally become very light.

- Add an LSD (I know you already have one).

- Do the AWD intermediate shaft mod to keep torque-steer under control.

- Set up some type of dual-stage boost controller to keep your boost at or below 15psi until you grab second gear.

- If you have Link V3, I believe you can also set it up so the launch control stays engaged until the wheel speed reaches a certain point. This will obviously benefit an AWD more than a FWD because as soon as a FWD loses traction the wheel speeds go up drastically. You can't really avoid this, but if you combine this with everything listed above you should get your 60ft time down a little. A better 60ft is going to lower your E.T. substantially.

Thansk Justin! I have the LSD, AWD shaft (ELHS), and stiff rear suspension. Boost by gear will be next and it looks like I'm not taking near enough air out of my front tires.