FWD versus AWD [Merged 2-8]

[TrippleStar]

Hello, kids. Here is the Official AWD or FWD? thread. All the hare-brained arguments about "rolling starts" and "top speed" and "deadly transfer cases" and "drivetrain losses" and the rest of the mis-guided "better" advice is right here.

It's recommended you just skip reading it. You already know which you want, and why. Still, it's a place to dump it all.

Let's start with this fine opener from 2002 (it really doesn't get much better):

newbie to DSMs here, whats AWD and FWD. just sold my civic hatchback and got my eclipse not to long ago and im still learing the dsm101 stuff.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by Red97Eclipseboy
I know theres reasons for both, and ups and downs to both. But, my main reason for getting a GST instead of a GSX is because, it's too easy in an AWD. Whats hard about it? Whats the challenge? If I can make my GST go high 12's...im done! Thats all im looking for. It's my opinion that if you can get a great time in a FWD rather than a AWD...theres a lot more to be pround of. Just my opinion-no flame needed. Im not doging AWD, its great. But, what I am saying is...launching an AWD and getting a good qt time is WAY easier in a FWD. Rev it up, drop the clutch...GONE! Sure, thats appealing to some, but to others (such as my self) the challenge is way worth it. Much more satisfaction to me doing it in FWD than AWD. 0.2 cents.

If I were going to get a drag car, I would get a Mustang and twin turbo it. This is only because I was just at a turbo Mustang shootout and it was incredible. Back on topic.

You make a good point, but its just like everyone has said, its your style that dictates what you should get. I drive tons of highway, so FWD is my cup of tea. You won't EVER regret AWD though. It's certainly better at putting the power down. If you do go FWD ( which I recommend in my biased position ) just do a few simple things to get it drag ready:

Lower the front as much as you can versus the rear, this will help with placing as much weight on the front tires and reduce the amount of weight shift at launch.

Slicks and drag rims are a must to make good times, especially 12s. They will be the best thing you buy other that a clutch-type LSD.

For limited slips, you should only get a clutch-type. Here's why:
http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/kaazvstorsen.asp

Have fun.

 

[Maximum404]

complete newb here, what is LSD?

 

[EclipseGSX9705]

I want to drag...so I'm looking for an AWD Turbo Eclipse or Talon.

Originally posted by Maximum404
complete newb here, what is LSD?

limited slip differential

 

[98RedGs]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7334
FWD vs AWD
Heres the largest thread on the forum concerning this topic.





What is LSD?
http://www.phantomgrip.com/
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/machv/kaazlimslipd.html
Limited Slip Differential, it's Positive Traction.
Both wheels leave black marks instead of just one.

 

[SpeedFreak03]

I am looking at turbo awd 1st gens cause have you ever tried launching a fast FWD? Also because straight line isn't everything for me, I like predictable handling also. And not to mention driving in light snow is easier in a AWD (this is gonna be my daily driver). But if you go FWD you will want to buy a LSD and some suspension mods to help out with launching. Good luck man!

 

[midnght]

Stay away from the phantom grip inserts. It is a waste of money. Save some money and get a GOOD LSD. The insert is just a temporary fix. It WILL break eventually. There are many things you don't want happening will trying to gun your engine and anything exploding in the engine bay is one of them.

This is from personal experience and that is just my recommendation.

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

Originally posted by Groomz
If I were going to get a drag car, I would get a Mustang and twin turbo it. This is only because I was just at a turbo Mustang shootout and it was incredible. Back on topic.

You make a good point, but its just like everyone has said, its your style that dictates what you should get. I drive tons of highway, so FWD is my cup of tea. You won't EVER regret AWD though. It's certainly better at putting the power down. If you do go FWD ( which I recommend in my biased position ) just do a few simple things to get it drag ready:

Lower the front as much as you can versus the rear, this will help with placing as much weight on the front tires and reduce the amount of weight shift at launch.

Slicks and drag rims are a must to make good times, especially 12s. They will be the best thing you buy other that a clutch-type LSD.

For limited slips, you should only get a clutch-type. Here's why:
http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/kaazvstorsen.asp

Have fun.

Yes, this I know. Maybe 12's is a little over doing it for me though. I'm not building a race car here, it's my daily driver (in summer only) and it's not worth the time nor the effort to build a full out track car right now. Being a full-time student and working almost full-time, it's not fesible. However, if I can smoke most cars on the street and have a head-turner at the same time...then im more than happy. I whoop up on V8's as is, can't wait till she's all done this summer!

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

Its really simple and beaten to death....

awd drag 1/4 mile times(even though awd wasnt made for the drag strip), snow handling
fwd top end pull, and autocross handling

Its your choice goodluck
Andrew

 

[paranoidTSi]

This is how I see it, AWD grabs better and handles better in weather, but tends to break a lot more since there is no give. FWD tends to break less because the tires just spin and arent abruptly stopped which is pretty much what happens in AWD and all that pressure goes on the tranny and suspension.

 

[Talonryda17]

Originally posted by paranoidTSi
This is how I see it, AWD grabs better and handles better in weather, but tends to break a lot more since there is no give. FWD tends to break less because the tires just spin and arent abruptly stopped which is pretty much what happens in AWD and all that pressure goes on the tranny and suspension.

i would say the same thing...i see your in mass, i have a fwd 97 TSi for sale its auto though

 

[Sleeper-GSX]

i took out my t-case the other day and have been driving arounf in FWD mode until i get the case fixed. theres just one thing, when i drive the car throught 1st and 2nd it feels like theres is hardly any power. it feels like its half in gear and neutral. i have to give it small amounts of gas to go, if i give it too muh gas it will just rev like its in neutral. now i know its not the trans mission b/c it shifts, drives, and there is no noises coming from it. i was thinking that it might be the center diff. slipping. anybody had this problem before.

 

[fireredGST]

My FWD does nothing but spin when I floor 1st and 2nd.

 

[pneumo]

Your car is doing that because the tranny is still trying to send power to the rear wheels, except they're not connected, so the output shaft for the rear just spins. The only thing pushing your car forward is the viscous coupling, which won't last long being driven like that.

In other words, you are killing your VC. Stop driving.

 

[kpt4321]

You're driving around with no transfer case and a stock viscous coupler?

It's probably already dead. Time for a new one.

 

[nickrule99]

Alright guys.

Fist of all, before you reply Im going to set up a few rules:
1) NO "well my car did this against this car"
2) NO in theory....
3) NO bashing on the car you DONT have

I know all about the drivetrain loss of the awd, and basicially I want to know how much of a difference this really makes. I read on another post here that the GSX looses 5% more to the drivetrain, is this correct?

Also, I know GSX will take a GST off the line, and a GST will take a GSX from a roll (provided same mods, driver, ect, ect, ect).

I need to know HOW much of a difference I can expect to see if I go with AWD instead of FWD. Please only post if you have numbers to back up what your saying.

Basicially, Im looking for 0-60, 0-100, 60-100 times.
Stuff like that, where I can actually compare the cars.
To find out how much that extra 5% loss matters.

Chances are Im going to leave it close to stock, MAYBE throw on a t3/t4 turbo in a year or so (after all supporting mods).

I dont really like the wheel hop I get in the GST now, and the GSX would be a good way to correct it. And yes, I know I can get a LSD.


And thanks in advance for not turning this into a FWD vs AWD flame war.





EDIT: Spelling

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by nickrule99
I need to know HOW much of a difference I can expect to see if I go with AWD instead of FWD.

More than enough in road feel to make AWD the first choice if you can afford it. More so in a DSM, because unlike other AWD systems, it's not regulated by electronics, gearbox gimmickry or other hobbles. Pure 50/50.

Basicially, Im looking for 0-60, 0-100, 60-100 times.

Good luck. Truly accurate comparisons don't exist, not with the sort of discrimination you're seeking.

To find out how much that extra 5% loss matters.

There's more than a 5% loss- you figure about 3% per geartrain, which totals the AWD up to (trans, transfer, rear diff, front diff) 12%, against the FWD's 6%. To compensate, the AWD has a lower final drive ratio.

I dont really like the wheel hop I get in the GST now, and the GSX would be a good way to correct it. And yes, I know I can get a LSD.

From the sound of you, I don't think FWD would ever satisfy you.

And thanks in advance for not turning this into a FWD vs AWD flame war.

Yeh, good luck with that.

I'll hover over the lock for a day or so.

 

[Squackdiddy]

im on the brink of buying a dsm and i just need a car to drive right now. and i think im going to be highway racing the most. but some people say that 40-140mph a awd would be quicker? im leaning towards a fwd because of the gas mileage for a daily driver. so which one should i get? and which ever one im going to get im going to get the counter part also.
(i get awd ima get fwd later.vice versa)

 

[xxrealmsxx]

<i> but some people say that 40-140mph a awd would be quicker?</i> typo? Get the fwd first, and then take your time in finding the right awd. It seems you already have the answer to your question.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

thtat was the most redundant post EVER haha

FWD > AWD highway
AWD > FWD stop

'nuff said. get a 2g GST/tsi and get a 1G AWD for DRAG

 

[TurBoGs-T]

If you enjoy highway might as well get FWD. Don't think that FWD is superior to AWD on HWY but FWD is better topend. I have had both and at this point my GSX has the same mods as my GST and i am enjoying my GSX. AWD's advantage from a stop is far more valuable that a FWD's top end.

FAQ

 

[SpeedFreak03]

ive thought this over alot and ive decided to look at 2G turbo FWD (GST/TSi). Because its gonna be my daily driver (better on gas), its not gonna be a drag queen (like im not gonna be at the track every weekend, most of my fun will be on the highway), and there is just less parts to break on a FWD. Not to mention the car itself will cost less (thats not the real reason though)! Now AWD does have its advantages, you can launch a hell of alot better with a AWD car, but atthe same time, launching an AWD car is ALOT harder on it then launching a FWD car. Also people who like driving in twisties and windy roads would enjoy AWD better, but in delaware its all straight so i decided against AWD. Also the nearest track is about 2 hours away so I wouldnt go there much anyway.

 

[vlaar]

If you'll be going to the track a lot, get the AWD PERIOD. I'm making decent power with my 1G FWD now and on the street, it's alright with traction, etc. On the track however, different conditions yield different and quite frustrating results. I wheelhop pretty bad in second and this is with windo weld packed in my motor mounts. I don't go to the track that often so the FWD is alright. Good luck.

 

[Squackdiddy]

the only time i think im going to the track is when there is a meet or some kind of event. its also going to be a daily driver so i would want things breaking that fast. so how is traction for a fwd at about 250-300 hp?

 

[midnght]

Traction in a 300whp fwd can be manipulated by the foot. You will get the feeling of the car and know when the car will break loose. Get to know your car and you will enjoy the piss out of it. I break loose sometimes just to feel good about the power I have under the 4cyl. hood.


Just remember that suspension is what you need to work on, stock ride in a fwd with anything more than stock power and you will have traction problems if you....Do not learn your car.

Be your own 2 stage boost controller. Feel it out and when it is time to let loose...let her rip.


*You can always get the AWD tranny into the FWD for the gearing if you wish*

 

[Squackdiddy]

gearing what to you mean by that?