Forward facing filter "Important Info"

[1qkfwd]

I've not played with it, but it looks like you may be able to adjust the spring pre-load on the Kiggly unit by turning the fastener in/out.

The Kiggly HLA does not dump the bypassed oil into the head, only the oil that pushes the valve open to get past goes through the lifter galleys this way.

The Kiggly HLA is a genius design. I know it doesn't dump back and that's what makes it such a great part to add to our system. Seeing first hand how it works, its like a first mod for anything I do.

But yes it does look like you can adjust it from how he has it set.

so what size diameter hole should we drill to acheive these lower oil pressure results?

how much unmetered oil should we be leaking back into the oil pan?

is the mighty max ffofh gasket the same part number as the talon ofh?

is there anywhere else in the oil system we should drill a similar hole?

how much of a boost leak causes a tuning issue? is a unmetered boost leak acceptable?
how much of a oil leak causes a turning issue? is a unmetered oil leak acceptable?

as paranoid as we all are about these engines, im suprised that some think this leak is okay. if a dohc 4g63 had this hole in the stock ofh, maybe then this would be worth debating.

Drilling anything shouldn't be done unless your 100% certain that its needed. So far I don't think there is any need for drilling it. I do know that we have a couple reliefs in the system already. One of those are in the pump it self.

Do we need oil system mods? You bet we do. But who around here has really taken the time to do so when what they have seems to work. Just like welding the tiny hole in the Forward facing housing. If you first hand see this hole you will giggle. Its very, very small.

 

[SaulHudson]

so what size diameter hole should we drill to acheive these lower oil pressure results?

how much unmetered oil should we be leaking back into the oil pan?

is the mighty max ffofh gasket the same part number as the talon ofh?

is there anywhere else in the oil system we should drill a similar hole?

how much of a boost leak causes a tuning issue? is a unmetered boost leak acceptable?
how much of a oil leak causes a turning issue? is a unmetered oil leak acceptable?

as paranoid as we all are about these engines, im suprised that some think this leak is okay. if a dohc 4g63 had this hole in the stock ofh, maybe then this would be worth debating.

What do you mean unmeasured?? This hole is before the stock relief hole... Are you impling the stock relief piston bleed hole is measured???


The gaskets are the same p/n.

 

[bryanwheat]

The way I see it is that the guy brought up a good question with hands on information to back up bringing it up. He has before and after results. The guy for, ffwd came in and said all is fine and everyone is nut swinging on him because he knows all. That seems to be the common mentality around here. Bash the guy that brings up an issue with a product because the vendor is always right. I can't for the life of me see how anyone thinks that this is not somewhat of an issue being that the stock ofh doesn't have this hole. A lot of people bashing who have not actually compared the 2 housings back to back.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

so what size diameter hole should we drill to acheive these lower oil pressure results?

how much unmetered oil should we be leaking back into the oil pan?

is the mighty max ffofh gasket the same part number as the talon ofh?

is there anywhere else in the oil system we should drill a similar hole?

how much of a boost leak causes a tuning issue? is a unmetered boost leak acceptable?
how much of a oil leak causes a turning issue? is a unmetered oil leak acceptable?

as paranoid as we all are about these engines, im suprised that some think this leak is okay. if a dohc 4g63 had this hole in the stock ofh, maybe then this would be worth debating.

This is what's known as "specious reasoning."

It's been stated many times: Whether it's a turbo, a balance shaft delete or an OFH swap you are considering.. measure your oil pressure.

Your setup will be unique.

The way I see it is that the guy brought up a good question with hands on information to back up bringing it up. He has before and after results. The guy for, ffwd came in and said all is fine and everyone is nut swinging on him because he knows all. That seems to be the common mentality around here. Bash the guy that brings up an issue with a product because the vendor is always right. I can't for the life of me see how anyone thinks that this is not somewhat of an issue being that the stock ofh doesn't have this hole. A lot of people bashing who have not actually compared the 2 housings back to back.

In order to call it a fix for an issue, you need to determine it's a problem.

That's just logic.

How many people wind up having to port the OFH to alleviate excess pressure?

I don't know Darren, I've never bought a product from FFWD.. but he was consistent both in logic and method.

Can't say the same for the other side of this discussion.

This would only need a few people to setup a gauge that can have its sending unit moved to a few spots and then use an unmodded common control OFH and an unmodded common FFOFH.

Common meaning they all use the same thing, like same part # OFHs.

Pick some points available for all involved to take measurements that are the same in relation to the OFH and Filter..
1.) Measure at the head port where OE 1G Turbo Feed was sourced.
2.) Measure from a tee on a post-filter Turbo Feed Line.
3.) HLA Galley with a common control OE HLA

Etc.

It would be more comprehensive but this wouldn't necessarily require multiple spots to be used for the sake of demonstration. Just one spot that they all have available that meet the criteria.

Then, changing nothing else.. switch from the control OFH to the FFOFH and compare. Ideally the swap would be done same day, and we would use running time, IAT and ECT to get an idea for how cold the oil each engine was running started at.

If you are running a 0w20 (I wouldn't recommend it..) and you live in Phoenix during the summer you could well run into low pressure regardless of your OFH. Likewise, an improperly performed BSE or a squirter or two stuck open could introduce the same problem.

.
.
.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The guy stated in no uncertain terms that not modding this part WILL cause spun bearings.. and you don't see a problem with that going out there on a tech forum unsubstantiated?

Why is this such a foreign concept to so many who should know better?

 

[SaulHudson]

The way I see it is that the guy brought up a good question with hands on information to back up bringing it up. He has before and after results. The guy for, ffwd came in and said all is fine and everyone is nut swinging on him because he knows all. That seems to be the common mentality around here. Bash the guy that brings up an issue with a product because the vendor is always right. I can't for the life of me see how anyone thinks that this is not somewhat of an issue being that the stock ofh doesn't have this hole. A lot of people bashing who have not actually compared the 2 housings back to back.

Scientifically, neither has OP.

 

[keltalon]

Anti-Tiger rocks???
racist remark, or simpsons reference?

I am glad someone caught it after this comment my participation in this discussion was completely over! I fought as much as I could without measuring device proof but when this comment was made it was a hit below the belt and there was no need for it and this is on a serious note

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

The way I see it is that the guy brought up a good question with hands on information to back up bringing it up. He has before and after results. The guy for, ffwd came in and said all is fine and everyone is nut swinging on him because he knows all. That seems to be the common mentality around here. Bash the guy that brings up an issue with a product because the vendor is always right. I can't for the life of me see how anyone thinks that this is not somewhat of an issue being that the stock ofh doesn't have this hole. A lot of people bashing who have not actually compared the 2 housings back to back.

I think the main problem is he didnt use an aftermarket oil pressure gauge therefore his "facts" weren't really facts as much as they were a hypothesis
(not getting into the "haters" and other troll responses he posted.)
As if landspeed is a hater when he is posting facts....

It's unfortunate this thread progressed to the point it has before others were able to do some independent testing of this. Keltalon has presented a reasonable though unproven hypothesis, let it stand at that.

Other members of the community have indicated their intention to further this "research". I hope they do and present their findings for the community. With a little patience 6 pages ago I think some bad feelings may have been avoided.

I agree with you.

 

[bryanwheat]

This is what's known as "specious reasoning."

It's been stated many times: Whether it's a turbo, a balance shaft delete or an OFH swap you are considering.. measure your oil pressure.

Your setup will be unique.



In order to call it a fix for an issue, you need to determine it's a problem.

That's just logic.

How many people wind up having to port the OFH to alleviate excess pressure?

I don't know Darren, I've never bought a product from FFWD.. but he was consistent both in logic and method.

Can't say the same for the other side of this discussion.

This would only need a few people to setup a gauge that can have its sending unit moved to a few spots and then use an unmodded common control OFH and an unmodded common FFOFH.

Common meaning they all use the same thing, like same part # OFHs.


Pick some points available for all involved to take measurements that are the same in relation to the OFH and Filter..
1.) Measure at the head port where OE 1G Turbo Feed was sourced.
2.) Measure from a tee on a post-filter Turbo Feed Line.
3.) HLA Galley with a common control OE HLA

Etc.

It would be more comprehensive but this wouldn't necessarily require multiple spots to be used for the sake of demonstration. Just one spot that they all have available that meet the criteria.

Then, changing nothing else.. switch from the control OFH to the FFOFH and compare. Ideally the swap would be done same day, and we would use running time, IAT and ECT to get an idea for how cold the oil each engine was running started at.

If you are running a 0w20 (I wouldn't recommend it..) and you live in Phoenix during the summer you could well run into low pressure regardless of your OFH. Likewise, an improperly performed BSE or a squirter or two stuck open could introduce the same problem.

.
.
.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The guy stated in no uncertain terms that not modding this part WILL cause spun bearings.. and you don't see a problem with that going out there on a tech forum unsubstantiated?

Why is this such a foreign concept to so many who should know better?

The problem that see is that you have less facts than him, you are making more assumptions than he is. He brought up a real good point about this housing and ran a test which showed different results. This should bring up concern to most people. Instead of bashing the guy, calling him stupid and so on, maybe you should go test the 2 housings yourself with a good aftermarket gauge placed after the oil filter to verify or bust his theory. Until then all that you say is assumption.

I think the main problem is he didnt use an aftermarket oil pressure gauge therefore his "facts" weren't really facts as much as they were a hypothesis
(not getting into the "haters" and other troll responses he posted.)
As if landspeed is a hater when he is posting facts....



I agree with you.

Well even thought the stock gauge is not real accurate if it is showing a difference than there is a difference regardless to what you think. As I said to the other guy, do a test your self , until then it is just a bunch of nutswinging assumptions.

 

[1qkfwd]

Well even thought the stock gauge is not real accurate if it is showing a difference than there is a difference regardless to what you think. As I said to the other guy, do a test your self , until then it is just a bunch of nutswinging assumptions.

Have you not been reading through the tread?

First off its a proven fact that we have a pressure drop across the filter, do we not? It's been out out there, it's on kigglys tech section on his site.

Second did you skim past the pics I posted that had both the forward and the standard housing showing that the gauge is being measured in two different spots?


Even if the gauge isn't that accurate measuring pressure in two different spots is gonna show on that gauge.

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

Well even thought the stock gauge is not real accurate if it is showing a difference than there is a difference regardless to what you think. As I said to the other guy, do a test your self , until then it is just a bunch of nutswinging assumptions.

I guess you missed arfwd's post explaining why the stock gauge is inaccurate even more so on the front facing filter. The point is he is claiming the pressure is too low without having any real pressure readings. Case closed.
And nut swinging would be what your doing because I actually took the time to read EVERY post before commenting my opinion on the matter. But lets not even begin with the bullshit name calling nonsense that has no relevance please... Keltalon is a hypocrite and already tried to turn this thread into a troll flame war on page 8... Then acts like he's been hit below the belt...

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I am glad someone caught it after this comment my participation in this discussion was completely over! I fought as much as I could without measuring device proof but when this comment was made it was a hit below the belt and there was no need for it and this is on a serious note

Oh, put it back in the deck. When you have to claim "racism" over your personal inability to grasp an established logical equivalence demonstration, it's beyond embarrassing.

The problem that see is that you have less facts than him, you are making more assumptions than he is. He brought up a real good point about this housing and ran a test which showed different results. This should bring up concern to most people. Instead of bashing the guy, calling him stupid and so on, maybe you should go test the 2 housings yourself with a good aftermarket gauge placed after the oil filter to verify or bust his theory. Until then all that you say is assumption.

Actually, had you read the last few pages you will see that before and after he started posting pictures of crack pipes I've stayed civil, discussed content and shared data.

I'll allow you some time to review and pry your foot out of your mouth.

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

The problem that see is that you have less facts than him, you are making more assumptions than he is. He brought up a real good point about this housing and ran a test which showed different results. This should bring up concern to most people. Instead of bashing the guy, calling him stupid and so on, maybe you should go test the 2 housings yourself with a good aftermarket gauge placed after the oil filter to verify or bust his theory. Until then all that you say is assumption.

I'm 90% sure you didnt read the thread now, because from what I read I specifically remember him measuring in 2 or more places...

 

[92AWDHX40]

This thread has some good information in it, ive been reading everything and its become very interesting and informative to say the least.

 

[SaulHudson]

Logically speaking, an anti tiger rock is the same concept as measuring anything with the stock gauge.
The rock is claimed to ward off tigers and friends of the greater agree but it is not proven.
OP claims welding a hole and telling people if you don't do this you will spin bearings and friends agree, but it is not prove.

 

[keltalon]

I guess you missed arfwd's post explaining why the stock gauge is inaccurate even more so on the front facing filter. The point is he is claiming the pressure is too low without having any real pressure readings. Case closed.
And nut swinging would be what your doing because I actually took the time to read EVERY post before commenting my opinion on the matter. But lets not even begin with the bullshit name calling nonsense that has no relevance please... Keltalon is a hypocrite and already tried to turn this thread into a troll flame war on page 8... Then acts like he's been hit below the belt...

Yeah there has been differing of opinions on this issue but to make racist remark is against board rules I don't care who you are. You better reread the rules! keltalon is happy with his car just make sure you are happy with yours. Daggummit I tried to stay out

 

[92AWDHX40]

I hear you kel, rules are rules, ive seen some broken, but I do enjoy your information very helpful.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Yeah there has been differing of opinions on this issue but to make racist remark is against board rules I don't care who you are. You better reread the rules! keltalon is happy with his car just make sure you are happy with yours. Daggummit I tried to stay out

I've been called a few things in my lifetime, racist and bigoted remain absent.

That logic device is as demonstrably "racist" as algebra.



I see what you'rea trying to do, and that's a new low for discourse around here.

Racism is your local politicians redistricting part of one county to overlap with another in a way that dilutes the voting power of a specific minority while closing DMVs and simultaneously trying to institue Voter ID.

This oil pressure discussion is simply myself and others dissecting wild claims.

I'm 90% sure you didnt read the thread now, because from what I read I specifically remember him measuring in 2 or more places...

Correct, as well as how to apply that information practically.

 

[keltalon]

I hear you kel, rules are rules, ive seen some broken, but I do enjoy your information very helpful.

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

Yeah there has been differing of opinions on this issue but to make racist remark is against board rules I don't care who you are. You better reread the rules! keltalon is happy with his car just make sure you are happy with yours. Daggummit I tried to stay out

Well I guess I wouldn't consider that a racist remark either... Its an example of why your information is useless hearsay without any real oil pressure readings. Claiming such little things are racist and "offend" you I think is BULLSHIT. I'm more offended by someone posting information and claiming its fact then if someone called me white boy or cracker... which is more racist then what your saying is offensive.

I hear you kel, rules are rules, ive seen some broken, but I do enjoy your information very helpful.

Your information is like this sentence, enjoyable and helpful for someone who doesn't need it.

So your claiming you think that is a racist remark and not making a valid point? I would be surprised if you two weren't friends.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I didn't even read that much into the racist remark, I didn't get into that, so im lost there.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

By the way the allegory of the "Anti-Tiger Rock" was even in an episode of the Simpsons.

Don't let this dude off the hook because he's desperately trying to deflect by using emotional tangents.

That's pretty scummy.

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

I didn't even read that much into the racist remark, I didn't get into that, so im lost there.

So, This really concerns me because i've taken advice from your posts in the past... You claimed there were rules being broken and hinted it was landspeed being racist... Then claim you have no idea about what was said.. Thanks for basically proving my point about the people defending him... But really insinuating someone is being racist isn't something you should just throw in there without even knowing what was said... Or what the definition is of what was said.

Unless you agreed with me and were saying Kelton tried to turn this thread into a troll/spam/flame match.. Posting CRACK pipes, etc.(page 8.)

I say we end the bullshit at this point by saying this thread is an opinion and has been proven that it needs more research to see EXACTLY the differences, AND WILL VARY ENGINE TO ENGINE SO DONT JUST WELD IT CLOSED BEFORE INSTALL!

 

[92AWDHX40]

Well to be more specific I wasn't even regarding the rules pertained to this thread Ive seen rules broken in other thread posts, ps im glad you took my advice in the past. Victor

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I'll check in a bit later, have to go cook dinner with my fiance and revise my scheme to oppress an entire ethnicity.

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

Well to be more specific I wasn't even regarding the rules pertained to this thread Ive seen rules broken in other thread posts, ps im glad you took my advice in the past. Victor

Ah Okay thanks for clearing it up and thanks for helping me before