Forward facing filter "Important Info"

[Morphius]

I'd wager the hole is for stability of the blow off valve.

 

[keltalon]

I don't know about you guys, but I came in here to discuss and prove kels theory to be wrong.
.

ARFWD I just had to unblock you , out of all the haters I find you somewhat intriguing. You are just as , well let me not say that I might get reprimanded. Let me start over. Your intention was wicked from the outset. it was very obvious to me in some of your ignorant post that you started running your john brown before even reading any of what lead to my starting this thread because your intention was to "prove me wrong regardless" , which means it was your intentions to contaminate the thread at all cost! But guess what you haven't prove anybody wrong how you like that. You have not to offered any proof yourself nothing but the argument that I didn't test pressure and you are right I didn't but check this out You nor any of your comrades haven't tested any pressure either not even of your theory of pressure differs at the location of the filter housing because if you had you nor them would not be here posting your ignorance.

Since the moderators gonna let this thread go on in this manner of arguing back and forth I might as well chime back in! Any person in their somewhat right mind can see the relief hole in the forward facing filter is just that , a hole to ease oil pressure at idle until the spring can do its job a wot and even at wot the bearings are not getting the oil they deserve especially if you are turning 8000 plus rpm. As was mention before mitsu engineers drilled the hole to compensate for the smaller area volume of the single overhead cam engine of the mighty max truck it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this logic.

You haters caught me off guard the other day. I was on the road, coming off a 200,000.00 project ,trying to post my arguments from my phone, in traffic and on top of that I was tired therefore some of my post and wording was not to my liking! Above all I was somewhat shocked and baffled that some of the so called gurus of the forum refuse to understand the logic and intention of the thread. but at the same time I was very appreciative of the gurus who understood where I was getting at!, but now that thats is behind me I have a little time to fight and to put up some sound reasoning as to my posting this thread because those who know me know I will not go down easy its my nature if you know what I mean. let rumble on, on the subject!
Ps some of you haters are still blocked therefore I can't see your post because your posts are more ignorance than I can bear, so if you make some stupid comment and I don't respond then you know you are one of those that are still blocked! With that being said let rumble!

Come on haters lets blow up the views and post counts of this thread I am reenergized!

 

[Morphius]

Any person in their somewhat right mind can see the relief hole in the forward facing filter is just that , a hole to ease oil pressure at idle until the spring can do its job a wot......

This is A theory. Period. Based on the hole size, have you or anyone calculated any volumetric flowrates? Is it even possible for it to flow enough to lower pressure? No one knows.

Just as its my theory that the hole is there for dampening purposes providing stability to the blowoff. With more sensitive equipment you would see variance in the pressure. It would look like a sinwave. To what extent, I don't know.

Your theory is based on pressure reading taken on one filter housing pre filter and the other post filter. Interesting data to the community, but it just proves there is a pressure drop across the filter. Using different brand filter adds another unknown. Especially if you use poor quality filters that have a tendency to be inconsistent with regards to the internal pressure relief valve.

You did make an interesting observation with regards to oil to the head. Does it prove/disprove anything? No. Its an interesting observation at this point.

......and even at wot the bearings are not getting the oil they deserve especially if you are turning 8000 plus rpm.

This is A theory. Period. AFRD will be providing the pressure data ( taken at identical locations) to prove/disprove your theory.

As was mention before mitsu engineers drilled the hole to compensate for the smaller area volume of the single overhead cam engine of the mighty max truck it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this logic.

Again, this someone's theory. Not fact. No one here works for mitsu or the supplier that would know. It's A theory.

 

[keltalon]

This is A theory. Period. Based on the hole size, have you or anyone calculated any volumetric flowrates? Is it even possible for it to flow enough to lower pressure? No one knows.

Just as its my theory that the hole is there for dampening purposes providing stability to the blowoff. With more sensitive equipment you would see variance in the pressure. It would look like a sinwave. To what extent, I don't know.

Your theory is based on pressure reading taken on one filter housing pre filter and the other post filter. Interesting data to the community, but it just proves there is a pressure drop across the filter. Using different brand filter adds another unknown. Especially if you use poor quality filters that have a tendency to be inconsistent with regards to the internal pressure relief valve.

You did make an interesting observation with regards to oil to the head. Does it prove/disprove anything? No. Its an interesting observation at this point.





This is A theory. Period. AFRD will be providing the pressure data ( taken at identical locations) to prove/disprove your theory.




Again, this someone's theory. Not fact. No one here works for mitsu or the supplier that would know. It's A theory.

Morphius from my experience its not theory I saw the what happen first hand. Its not based on just pressure reading its based on personal observation of improvement and this is what my conviction is based on. The only thing you guys have the edge on it actual numbers which is cool but I know personally what benefit was gained. like I said this argument will continue. I would do the test myself with a modded filter housing and an unmodded filter housing but will not do it at the risk of my engine. if anyone wants me to send a modded filter to them for testing I will be glad to at my own time and expense this way the boards will have an apples to apples comparison and actual numbers considering that they perform the test without bias. And if anyone local would like for me to perform such test on their personal car I will do that also. The forward facing filter in an unmodded state is bad news!

 

[SBstar]

Morphius from my experience its not theory I saw the what happen first hand. Its not based on just pressure reading its based on personal observation of improvement and this is what my conviction is based on.

Your experience is that you seen higher oil pressure after plugging the hole. But, you have not substantiated whether or not you actually needed higher oil pressure. Your belief that your oil pressure was too low has been shown to be based on a gauge that is

A. Faulty at best
and
B. Was taking readings from two different locations

The only thing you guys have the edge on it actual numbers which is cool but I know personally what benefit was gained.

Again, you do not necessarily know if a benefit was gained or not. You may have increased oil pressure, but you do not know if that was necessary in the first place.

like I said this argument will continue. I would do the test myself with a modded filter housing and an unmodded filter housing but will not do it at the risk of my engine. if anyone wants me to send a modded filter to them for testing I will be glad to at my own time and expense this way the boards will have an apples to apples comparison and actual numbers considering that they perform the test without bias. And if anyone local would like for me to perform such test on their personal car I will do that also.

You having thrown that in there makes me think you're not going to care if/when someone posts results if they differ with your opinion.

The forward facing filter in an unmodded state is bad news!

This is the type of statement that does not make sense. You believed you had found an issue. But have now been shown that the way you came to believe you had an issue was flawed in it's reasoning. There may very well be an issue, and perhaps welding the hole shut is a good idea in some cases. However, it is very apparent from the facts that have been shown that more testing is needed in order to know for sure.

If my car wasn't half torn down already I'd do this test myself as I have my 90 OFH still on the car and my ffofh sitting in my garage right now. Thankfully ARFWD has already stated he will be testing this in the near future. I look forward to the results. Some real testing, ensuring the proper variables are considered, should be the end-all to this discussion.

 

[keltalon]

Your experience is that you seen higher oil pressure after plugging the hole. But, you have not substantiated whether or not you actually needed higher oil pressure. Your belief that your oil pressure was too low has been shown to be based on a gauge that is

A. Faulty at best
and
B. Was taking readings from two different locations






Again, you do not necessarily know if a benefit was gained or not. You may have increased oil pressure, but you do not know if that was necessary in the first place.



You having thrown that in there makes me think you're not going to care if/when someone posts results if they differ with your opinion.



This is the type of statement that does not make sense. You believed you had found an issue. But have now been shown that the way you came to believe you had an issue was flawed in it's reasoning. There may very well be an issue, and perhaps welding the hole shut is a good idea in some cases. However, it is very apparent from the facts that have been shown that more testing is needed in order to know for sure.

Lifter tick weak lifter oil stream, all that wasn't experienced before the ffofh was installed was enough to convince me something wasn't normal with this filter housing. Ffofh is bad news!

 

[bryanwheat]

I see a ton of people saying that the hole is fine. Why is the hole fine, why doesn't the dohc engine have this hole? Why is it just assumed that the hole is fine. What is wrong with welding the hole shut. By welding it shut makes it the same as the dohc housing. Assumption, assumptions, assumptions. How about this, unless you have any real data as you call it, keep your assumptions to your self. I find it funny that you guys bash this guy, but all your bashing is based off bling assumption. You have no facts to base anything off of.

Last but not least, let's not forget that this housing is from an older design than the engines in these cars. If the hole was such a good thing than they would keep it there. If the hole does nothing than why did they drill it on the first place. Surly this hole that does nothing could of saved them a ton of money to not drill on the assembly line.

 

[keltalon]

I see a ton of people saying that the hole is fine. Why is the hole fine, why doesn't the dohc engine have this hole? Why is it just assumed that the hole is fine. What is wrong with welding the hole shut. By welding it shut makes it the same as the dohc housing. Assumption, assumptions, assumptions. How about this, unless you have any real data as you call it, keep your assumptions to your self. I find it funny that you guys bash this guy, but all your bashing is based off bling assumption. You have no facts to base anything off of.

Last but not least, let's not forget that this housing is from an older design than the engines in these cars. If the hole was such a good thing than they would keep it there. If the hole does nothing than why did they drill it on the first place. Surly this hole that does nothing could of saved them a ton of money to not drill on the assembly line.

Well said mitsubishi engineers knew very well what they were doing! Someone said it best in an earlier post it seems that most would welcome such a discovery being that these engines are so sensitive to any little thing that causes them to fail. Even with the oil port mod in the head we welcomed it with little criticism whatsoever without any real numbers to support its its claims. Many have tried it including myself and wowed we were. I think the rebirth on the negatively of this issue stems from a decline in sales of the ffofh since this thread was started! People listen because I have a reputation on these boards of making progression in the dsm performance game. Listen to me clearly the unmodded ffofh is bad news!

 

[Morphius]

Well said mitsubishi engineers knew very well what they were doing!

True statement. However, at this point we don't know what the hole truly accomplishes because we are not them.

You made observations and shared it with the community. Merely that. We commend you.

Do us all a favor, since you like to take video:
Part A
1. Go buy (2) wix oil filters.
2. Install them on each housing.
3. Install a gage at the pressure tap on the head.
4. Install stock housing
5. Warm car up to a set temp ( I'll assume you have a means of reading coolant temp via ECU)
6. Car in neutral, simply throttle it. Video pressure at idle, 4k ( higher if like), then pan down to show housing.
7. Swap filter housings
8. Repeat steps (5-6).
9. Post videos

Part B will be given when that is done.

I find it funny that you guys bash this guy, but all your bashing is based off bling assumption. You have no facts to base anything off of.

I agree. A whole lot of unneeded bickering, name calling, bringing out ego sticks..... everyone on both sides need to grow up.

 

[T is for TURBO]

I'd wager the hole is for stability of the blow off valve.

So, If I understand your though process, you are theorizing that the hole is there to prevent the oil pressure from surging up an down at the crack pressure of the oil relief valve?

 

[keltalon]

So, If I understand your though process, you are theorizing that the hole is there to prevent the oil pressure from surging up an down at the crack pressure of the oil relief valve?

The hole is at the oil entrance of the relief valve which means oil will bleed off before enough volume has entered to create enough pressure to open the relief valve. Here is the thing if you have an unmodified forward facing filter housing on your car and drop the oil pan as I did. Put a drill on the oil driven gear and turn it you will notice as did I that oil bleed out of the hole as soon as the driven gear is spun. Oil will continue to bleed through this hole as long as the gear is spinning. At idle the dual overhead cam engine does not rotate fast enough because of this constant bleeding of oil to cover the entire larger volume oil galleries to create enough pressure that one would consider safe and within specification of min oil pressure at idle with this I don't feel comfortable more so at wot!

 

[Morphius]

So, If I understand your though process, you are theorizing that the hole is there to prevent the oil pressure from surging up an down at the crack pressure of the oil relief valve?

Yes. However, its a theory. I'd have to prove it with some data.

 

[T is for TURBO]

Yes. However, its a theory. I'd have to prove it with some data.

Sounds plausible to me.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Morphius

First, thanks for actually understanding what my contention was with this whole thing. This was never some personal vendetta. I've even been complimentary of his car and progress, both in the past and recently.

Everyone, huh? Let's not equivocate here. I stayed civil this entire time.

You can search by username and check the 34 posts I've made in here and the most "scathing" words I've resorted to were labeling him in particular as provincial (which true to definition, his display in here fits the description) as well as identifying his 3-4 member personality cult as "sycophants." Which, again is true to it's meaning.

Someone called him stupid, sure that someone was not me however and I can understand the sentiment.

I don't consider him stupid or necessarily unintelligent. In fact ive recently referred to him as a clever person in a related thread:

Kelvin is a clever guy and he's put together a nice car for himself. But he is not authoritative in this subject.

Not that I can claim to be, but I have data from a sensor that outputs voltage referenced to a scale and a good deal of lab/class education that touches on this.

I also recognize that literally every setup is different and the number of issues reported involving low pressure and the FFOFHs from the Mighty Max are minimal.

They are setup specific issues. Advocating his modification as a universal thing is not good advice and not based on anything resembling the scientific method.

He is however unable to re-evaluate his beliefs or hold an honest technical discussion. There is an established track record of that on this forum.

So, no, not everyone is making this about ego.

Let's be diligent here - this is not a Theory, this is an untested hypothesis.

Words have meanings.

My points remain:

1.) To claim a fix, you have to determine there was a problem.
2.) This is the oil system we are talking about, literally every setup will be different.

Anyone testing this is going to return data relevant to their engine.. not something that can be extrapolated out to everyone as a blanket statement. Like installing any turbo other than an MHI TD05H .. you need to measure your oil pressure and adjust as needed. Whether thst means porting, welding, shimming, a different oil weight, etc.

This is not exactly revolutionary thinking. How is this controversial or up for debate?

 

[1qkfwd]

Calling someone ignorant or there knowledge ignorant is pretty low. How can you claim that if you don't know if I'm right or wrong? So if I prove your theory wrong, what I've said is ignorant?

It's great that you have made so much on a ancient designed intake. Can anyone do it? Sure they can if they wanted to put forth effort just like my pushing the 14b to its limits. Just takes a bit of dedication.

Now I'm doing this test for my own personal well being. If I find huge differences in favor of what your saying (I doubt I will) then ya your right and we have a new reliable mod that we share with the noobs. If its minimal I'd leave things alone.

Being this housing was on a different engine, how do you know those pressure wernt a lot higher just at idle thus requiring the hole. Maybe it was flaw in design. To many maybes.

You say un modded housing blows up engines. Got proof? There's a smaller percentage of cars with it that have had issues compared to the ones that have success. Luck you say? In this game there is no luck. You've either got it figured out or you don't.

Ill be testing with a pressure sensor. I will be ordering another housing I will have it welded and I will be drilling a new port pre filter. Why? Because I'm ignorant and have been said to hate and follow along the lines of others. I don't like to figure things out on my own. Shall I go on??

 

[boost97gst]

Fcuk yea AR, do it. Cant wait to see the results. I too think theres going to be little or no difference but either way, this needs to be answered. Glad you're the guinea pig and have the time for it. You rock

 

[1qkfwd]

Fcuk yea AR, do it. Cant wait to see the results. I too think theres going to be little or no difference but either way, this needs to be answered. Glad you're the guinea pig and have the time for it. You rock

Oh I'm by no means a guinea pig. You can consider me more of the scientist on this experiment.

 

[Phantom DSM]

Oh I'm by no means a guinea pig. You can consider me more of the scientist on this experiment.

Some real shit right there ! Hands on experimental data FTW. thanks for taking the time bro.

 

[keltalon]

Fcuk yea AR, do it. Cant wait to see the results. I too think theres going to be little or no difference but either way, this needs to be answered. Glad you're the guinea pig and have the time for it. You rock

If done correctly you be surprised how much of a different in pressure the modded and unmodded housing is.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

For reference - my FSM lists "11.5psi or more at 750rpm" for warm idle which is considered as oil temp above 165*F.

Below this would be a problem.

The cause however can be many things, individually or in combination.

 

[keltalon]

Calling someone ignorant or there knowledge ignorant is pretty low. How can you claim that if you don't know if I'm right or wrong? So if I prove your theory wrong, what I've said is ignorant?

It's great that you have made so much on a ancient designed intake. Can anyone do it? Sure they can if they wanted to put forth effort just like my pushing the 14b to its limits. Just takes a bit of dedication.

Now I'm doing this test for my own personal well being. If I find huge differences in favor of what your saying (I doubt I will) then ya your right and we have a new reliable mod that we share with the noobs. If its minimal I'd leave things alone.

Being this housing was on a different engine, how do you know those pressure wernt a lot higher just at idle thus requiring the hole. Maybe it was flaw in design. To many maybes.

You say un modded housing blows up engines. Got proof? There's a smaller percentage of cars with it that have had issues compared to the ones that have success. Luck you say? In this game there is no luck. You've either got it figured out or you don't.

Ill be testing with a pressure sensor. I will be ordering another housing I will have it welded and I will be drilling a new port pre filter. Why? Because I'm ignorant and have been said to hate and follow along the lines of others. I don't like to figure things out on my own. Shall I go on??

being ignorant is having "no knowledge of" and in this case you don't have any knowledge of wether their is a difference in the modded and unmodded forward facing filter housing am I correct therefore you are ignorant right? Isn't this why you are volunteering to do the test because you have no knowledge of whether the hole makes a difference or not. running that john brown again without thinking! Dude you still intrigue me and where did you get the housing was on a different engine? the housing was on the engine that I am currently running I took it off , modded it and put it back on wow it where its suppose to be pressure wise. you are so dead set on proving me wrong you are confused

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

If done correctly you be surprised how much of a different in pressure the modded and unmodded housing is.

Let us know when you measure it then.

Again, nobody here is questioning that system pressure will increase if you decrease the amount of oil being vented at the OFH.

That's entirely expected.

being ignorant is having "no knowledge of" and in this case you don't have any knowledge of wether their is a difference in the modded and unmodded forward facing filter housing am I correct? Isn't this why you are volunteering to do the test because you have no knowledge of whether the hole makes a difference or not. running that john brown again without thinking! Dude you still intrigue me and where did you get the housing was on a different engine? the housing was on the engine that I am currently running I took it off and modded it put it back on the wow it where its suppose to be pressure wise. you are so dead set on proving me wrong you are confused

It's not about you being right or wrong. At least not for me, and I don't get that from his posts either.

The thing we are trying to determine is if you can take any healthy engine, swap in only the unmodified FFOFH and wind up with excessively low pressure (that would cause damage as claimed) when measured in different spots through the system. Then the question becomes: is welding the relief hole going to be enough by it's self to fix the situation?

That is all.

 

[We're on Boost]

I love that sign I hardly see them anymore though
Dont go to Dallas with that mantra though, they'll run you off the road... Tailgating up the ass. I had to stay on boost at all times

Glad you like it!
I lived there in the early 80's, in north-east Texas (Longview). I'm not from the south but my impression of NE TX is that it is more like "The South" and not so much like it is farther west in Texas.
Anyway, the #1 thing I take with me to this day about it is this: The old idea of a "Southern Gentleman" - it is real, and the ones I knew, there was nothing fake about them. They were the real deal. My boss, his boss, the other engineers, the tool and die makers, the shop people, the factory workers; they were cool as heck.
The only real dirt-ball I knew of was the president of the company, and a couple of his wannabees in the executive ranks. Sorry, I just had to say that But I have found that to be the case in other places as well.

 

[1qkfwd]

If done correctly you be surprised how much of a different in pressure the modded and unmodded housing is.

To the point of blowing up an engine? I don't think so.

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

Lifter tick weak lifter oil stream, all that wasn't experienced before the ffofh was installed was enough to convince me something wasn't normal with this filter housing. Ffofh is bad news! by the way guys i'm an ignorant glorified woodworker, so don't bother actually taking my opinion as a intelligent one... and all my opinions are guesses actually I have no facts I just like to guess and hope. BY THE WAY GUYS I HAVEN'T ACTUALLY MEASURED MY OIL PRESSURE WHAT SO EVER.. So for all I know I could be over pressurized now but because I made so much power it must be correct, AMIRITE?

But you didnt say It happened afterwards so your saying because before you didnt put it on you had a healthy engine it must not be correct even though you didnt have any of these happen afterwards... Your predicting it would have happened? More useless opinion from someone who admits he has no facts.