Forward facing filter "Important Info"

[keltalon]

Here ya go so you can first hand see it. The 90 air cooled housing is the same as the 92 housing.

Youre not actually getting a pressure drop. You are just getting a different reading by swapping the housing.

I was getting idle pressure drop. Oil wasn't flowing like in the video with the forward facing housing. It was with the 1990 housing and also with the modded forward housing but not until I plugged the hole. I will continue to post this over and over because I know first hand what the before and after results were I saw it with my own eyes and car been running great ever since! 6 modded housing and all flows like in my video.

From what I see one of the pics the housing has a hole in it and the other one don't. I think those who are chiming in didn't see the video in post #1. So they are arguing without reading all 6 pages!

here is the video again
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/9HWr74pYjx8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[1qkfwd]

That video shows nothing either. Without a gauge teed into the same spot for all results you still haven't convinced any of us that welding that small of a hole makes that big of a difference. The pressure across the filter as I stated before is almost 15psi just at idle. Gets as low as 11-12 of a drop. But when you rev out throughout the rpm range the gap of pressure drop widens.

What your doing really isn't doin much at all. Until you show me back to back pressure readings it's a waste of anyone's time to do this.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

the video is supporting evidence these haters refuse to see it as evidence are you kidding me! this is turning into a word game. I posted the video as big as your screen can hold and the haters still don't want to see it despite copying it in their post
Saul are you happy with your car? if so then its all good If not sell it.
whatever evidence you are looking for other than the videos I am sorry you will not get it! take it and use it or leave it. I have done several housing and all are happy Another thing that show me you don't understand what is happening is that oil pressure didn't increase at WOT were are you getting this from? Look at that pressure in post 97. post a video of with your valve cap off I would love to see it!

I'm not playing word games, I've been very explicit in my statements this whole time to avoid it.

You are being intellectually dishonest for no reason at all.

29sec shaky-cam vid of your car idling and the stock oil pressure "switch" are not data nor evidence. Running the pump with a drill and watching oil come it is not evidence.

You have made some barely qualifiable observations with no quantifying information from a test or control situation.

That's the primary issue here.

Secondary would be a poor or misunderstanding of fluid mechanics, tertiary to that would be the location of the sending unit relative to the main galley, peripherals and the filter.

All of which would be completely unnecessary if you weren't trying to tout this as a general "fix" to something that has not been established as a problem.

 

[keltalon]

I'm not playing word games, I've been very explicit in my statements this whole time to avoid it.

You are being intellectually dishonest for no reason at all.

29sec shaky-cam vid of your car idling and the stock oil pressure "switch" are not data nor evidence. Running the pump with a drill and watching oil come it is not evidence.

You have made some barely qualifiable observations with no quantifying information from a test or control situation.

That's the primary issue here.

Secondary would be a poor or misunderstanding of fluid mechanics, tertiary to that would be the location of the sending unit relative to the main galley, peripherals and the filter.

All of which would be completely unnecessary if you weren't trying to tout this as a general "fix" to something that has not been established as a problem.

Like I said "Word games again" which mean nothing at all. Empty speech

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Right, because factual and methodical accuracy is meaningless..

 

[boost97gst]

This needs to be done with a gauge by someone. Same weight oil, same filter etc etc. Otherwise there are no CONTROLS in this experiment. Without a control and a test and with many variables, no conclusion can be made definitively. That would be a scientific, methodical approach.
The intentions were all well and good but after looking at the vids, posts it just cant be taken as fact.....yet.
Get some happy volunteers to do before and after, like i said: keeping the variables limited to ONE THING, that little hole. Then lets see if theres merit to it.
You have to agree with the method bro, its how everything is proven.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

For honesty, accuracy and consistency there is an established protocol for developing ideas on how "things" actually work and effect other "things" in the real world:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

From what you have shared, this is the most affirmative statement you could have made:
"Hey guys, here's my hypothesis and here's an associated observation."

But that's not what you did. Instead, when you received outside analysis you went off the deep end.

We would not have gotten much beyond the dark ages with this mindset.

This needs to be done with a gauge by someone. Same weight oil, same filter etc etc. Otherwise there are no CONTROLS in this experiment. Without a control and a test and with many variables, no conclusion can be made definitively. That would be a scientific, methodical approach.
The intentions were all well and good but after looking at the vids, posts it just cant be taken as fact.....yet.
Get some happy volunteers to do before and after, like i said: keeping the variables limited to ONE THING, that little hole. Then lets see if theres merit to it.
You have to agree with the method bro, its how everything is proven.

This is precisely what I am trying to get at..

Even then we run into two problems:

1.) Where the sender is taking pressure in the housing relative to the control.
2.) That every single setup will yield different results.

I shared my results from different spots on the engine with my particular configuration of parts and a 90 Air/Air OFH.. but I qualified it as such... "my particular" results.

 

[keltalon]

This needs to be done with a gauge by someone. Same weight oil, same filter etc etc. Otherwise there are no CONTROLS in this experiment. Without a control and a test and with many variables, no conclusion can be made definitively. That would be a scientific, methodical approach.
The intentions were all well and good but after looking at the vids, posts it just cant be taken as fact.....yet.
Get some happy volunteers to do before and after, like i said: keeping the variables limited to ONE THING, that little hole. Then lets see if theres merit to it.
You have to agree with the method bro, its how everything is proven.

I understand the method approach this is how I built this monster. With that being said this thread wasn't started from a let see which filter housing with documentation flows the best it was incidental that i found my issue and the difference in the two housing. I didn't start it either to convince people to mod their housing. I put the discovery out there and some ran with negativity.

I keep mentioning nobody here has to do it the difference in 6 cars and my car is enough evidence for me! This is one of those threads if you can use the info then good if not that's good also it everybody own decision. I don't see what the big deal is use it or not plain and simple! Lol

For honesty, accuracy and consistency there is an established protocol for developing ideas on how "things" actually work and effect other "things" in the real world:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

From what you have shared, this is the most affirmative statement you could have made:
"Hey guys, here's my hypothesis and here's an associated observation."

But that's not what you did. Instead, when you received outside analysis you went off the deep end.

We would not have gotten much beyond the dark ages with this mindset.



This is precisely what I am trying to get at..

Even then we run into two problems:

1.) Where the sender is taking pressure in the housing relative to the control.
2.) That every single setup will yield different results.

I shared my results from different spots on the engine with my particular configuration of parts and a 90 Air/Air OFH.. but I qualified it as such... "my particular" results.

If I was on the shark tank show trying to get rich yeah it needs to follow this protocol. but I am not trying to profit or convince no one to mod their filter housing they can IMO just keep building and parting out their cars and this is what is killing the dsm community! Some things needs to be left simple!

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Except you didn't build your car through that method, perusal of past turbo and cam discussions with you show the same pattern that emerged here.

If I was on the shark tank show trying to get rich yeah it needs to follow this protocol. but I am not trying to profit or convince no one to mod their filter housing they can IMO just keep building and parting out their cars and this is what is killing the dsm community! Some things needs to be left simple!

You've claimed at several points that it fixes things. This sort of claim requires a significant burden of proof - both that the item in question was the cause, and that your modification was the fix.

This includes assertions as egregious as blaming spun bearings on the OFH type:

Your answer is in post #12 and #13. Most guys engines will spin a bearing and will not even give any consideration to the real culprit and its the unmodified forward facing filter.

Now who's playing word games?

This is how bad information gets out and about, especially when there are at least a handful around here that accept what you say without examination then turn around and give it out as advice to newbies:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=153389876

From this thread:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...o-build-issues-experiences.html#post153389876

This isn't me "trolling" or going out of my way to be a dick about it.

 

[keltalon]

You've claimed at several points that it fixes things. This sort of claim requires a significant burden of proof - both that the item in question was the cause, and that your modification was the fix.

This includes assertions as egregious as blaming spun bearings on the OFH type:

Now who's playing word games?

Lol I love my engine investment. Unmodded forward facing filter spin rod bearing and I stand behind that.!! Maybe they know the people filter housing I modded for free and how happy they were!

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Lol I love my engine investment. Unmodded forward facing filter spin rod bearing and I stand behind that.!!

With nothing to support your claim. Which is the whole reason this conversation continues.

Now, I have this rock that keeps away tigers. Since, I've had this rock and distributed equivalent rocks to friends at no charge, none of us have been mauled by tigers.

I stand by my equally baseless and silly claim.

 

[1qkfwd]

The forward housing does not lower oil pressure in the engine. It also doesn't cause blown bottom ends. You have issues elsewhere that caused a spun bearing.

 

[keltalon]

The forward housing does not lower oil pressure in the engine. It also doesn't cause blown bottom ends. You have issues elsewhere that caused a spun bearing.

Please disregard this statement^^^. Forward facing filter will kill your engine unless you mod it! I have never spun a rod bearing because the two locals that did had a forward facing filter on their car and I knew the filter housing linked the 2 failures! Those failures and my fix is all I need to be convinced. Please quite trolling the thread and let those who read it be the judge as to what they want to do!

 

[1qkfwd]

Please disregard this statement^^^. Forward facing filter will kill your engine unless you mod it! I have never spun a rod bearing because the two locals that did had a forward facing filter on their car and I knew the filter housing linked the 2 failures! Those failures and my fix is all I need to be convinced. Please quite trolling the thread and let those who read it be the judge as to what they want to do!

Read what I wrote above. You are getting a different reading off the housing. Maybe you missed the factual information I posted earlier in the thread.

UGH nevermind Ill just repost it.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...ng-filter-important-info-6.html#post153390615
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...ng-filter-important-info-6.html#post153390627

Forward facing filter will kill your engine unless you mod it! I have never spun a rod bearing because the two locals that did had a forward facing filter on their car and I knew the filter housing linked the 2 failures! Those failures and my fix is all I need to be convinced. Please quite trolling the thread and let those who read it be the judge as to what they want to do!

You don't know that this is true and have no proof stating it either.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Please disregard this statement^^^. Forward facing filter will kill your engine unless you mod it! I have never spun a rod bearing because the two locals that did had a forward facing filter on their car and I knew the filter housing linked the 2 failures! Those failures and my fix is all I need to be convinced. Please quite trolling the thread and let those who read it be the judge as to what they want to do!

So, about that anti-tiger rock of mine...

 

[1qkfwd]

I am not off reading that the thing. This whole thing started when I opened the valve cover at idle and barley saw oil flow. I knew something wasn't right. I plugged the pin hole and the video show a big difference at idle. Enough for me to know the pin hole was the culprit on the forward facing filter.

Ya but you have no idea what your oil pressure was, at idle. Just enough rpms and difference on temperature is enough to make that big of a difference in flow out of those holes.

 

[keltalon]

Ya but you have no idea what your oil pressure was, at idle. Just enough rpms and difference on temperature is enough to make that big of a difference in flow out of those holes.

help him lord! Forgive him for he not have a clue

 

[Sp1kE]

Why are you guys being such d-bags to the OP?

He found an issue, and he addressed it.
Pretty much the same thing as a boost leak. It will take longer to reach the desired pressure, but sooner is better

There are no exact numbers to go along with it, but that hole is limiting the pressure when the relief piston has not opened.
Could be 1psi at idle, could be 5+?
Instead of correcting terminology and writing super long scientific jibberjabber posts, go out there with a pressure gauge and test the before and after.

 

[1qkfwd]

Why are you guys being such d-bags to the OP?

He found an issue, and he addressed it.
Pretty much the same thing as a boost leak. It will take longer to reach the desired pressure, but sooner is better

There are no exact numbers to go along with it, but that hole is limiting the pressure when the relief piston has not opened.
Could be 1psi at idle, could be 5+?
Instead of correcting terminology and writing super long scientific jibberjabber posts, go out there with a pressure gauge and test the before and after.

He didn't address anything that's all im pointing out.

 

[T is for TURBO]

I am not off reading that the thing. This whole thing started when I opened the valve cover at idle and barley saw oil flow. I knew something wasn't right. I plugged the pin hole and the video show a big difference at idle. Enough for me to know the pin hole was the culprit on the forward facing filter.

But did you take before and after oil pressure readings at a location that was not the oil filter housing... Say, maybe the head, or in the turbo feed line?

 

[1qkfwd]

But did you take before and after oil pressure readings at a location that was not the oil filter housing... Say, maybe the head, or in the turbo feed line?

No he professionally popped off the oil cap and said. "yup that's good"

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Why are you guys being such d-bags to the OP?

He found an issue, and he addressed it.
Pretty much the same thing as a boost leak. It will take longer to reach the desired pressure, but sooner is better

There are no exact numbers to go along with it, but that hole is limiting the pressure when the relief piston has not opened.
Could be 1psi at idle, could be 5+?
Instead of correcting terminology and writing super long scientific jibberjabber posts, go out there with a pressure gauge and test the before and after.

He doesn't know if he actually had an issue, doesn't know if he fixed it and is telling people that they WILL spin bearings with an unmodded FFOFH.

That is a problem. This isn't being a "d-bag." It's called critical thinking.

I have measured my numbers in several spots in the system, shared them and understand they are relative to my situation.

'I didn't go on some tangent like "20w50" WILL blow your turbine seals everyone!'

And I had actual pressure measurements, compared them to the field manual and resolved it using more pressure measurements and a thinner cold weight to accommodate the weather change.

But did you take before and after oil pressure readings at a location that was not the oil filter housing... Say, maybe the head, or in the turbo feed line?

He never took actual pressure readings. See my post about the accuracy of the stock unit compared to a legit gauge.

 

[1qkfwd]

Here is the video before looking into the valve cover to see how much oil was getting to the head the gauge was reading low while cruising this drew concern because it read higher before with the 1g filter housing.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/vy6Vx8icdEo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I will post a video of where the same stock guage was sitting after the mod. I have to find it.

Ya and your getting a reading after the filter on the forward facing. So you change the filter and your reading will change.

 

[Sp1kE]

One could also argue that everyone who does NOT have a FFH and has an aftermarket gauge in the stock sender location, is actually reading their oil pressure in the wrong spot because they do not actually know the oil pressure their engine is recieving POST filter.

 

[Fiascoxl]

I have over 10K miles on mine and rock solid oil pressure... Needles to say this was on Numerous 8+, 6+, and 3+ hour trips. And for what its worth it also the quietest engine I have ever put together.