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Forward facing filter "Important Info"

Posted by keltalon, Jun 20, 2013

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  1. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    First off I just figured out exactly why your pressure reads lower when you switch over to a forward facing housing. It has nothing to do with that little bleed hole that you can barely fit a standard thumb tack into. The holes in the head supply rail that relives oil for the lifters are damn near twice the size as the dinky little relieve port on the OFH.

    Ok now It has been mentioned that we have a good amount of pressure loss across the oil filter. Now I have sitting in front of me two oil filter housings. First a BNIB forward facing housing. Second is a 1G water cooled OFH. Now looking at both of these, the spot for the oil sending unit on the 92 water cooled is pre filter and is going to have the highest reading. The forward facing housing the sending unit spot is post oil filter. So yes you will automatically get a lower reading, but your pressure is not really lower.
     

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  2. SaulHudson

    SaulHudson Proven Member

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    Usually people are skeptical for a reason, many times that reason is lack of supporting evidence.
    Here is the definition :
    Skepticism is generally any questioning attitude towards knowledge, facts, or opinions/beliefs stated as facts.

    In this case this is an opinion stated as fact, since you have no supporting evidence other than how many pink unicorns exist and you say it is true for all ffofh builds. You even go as for to blanket advocate the statement to anyone with a ffofh. This is wrong. Every setup is different and you should not modify your oil system until you have tested it and know you have a problem. Do you realize how many oil passages get blocked off when you delete balance shafts and oil squirters? That causes a very significant pressure increase.

    There would be no skeptics on this thread if you said hey guys I have a low oil pressure. I know this because I used my aem oil pressure gauge to measure it in the factory port on the oil filter housing. It read X at idle and X at WOT. When I found this hole in my ofh and welded it my pressure increased to X at idle and X at WOT.
     

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  3. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    the video is supporting evidence these haters refuse to see it as evidence are you kidding me! this is turning into a word game. I posted the video as big as your screen can hold and the haters still don't want to see it despite copying it in their post:shhh: LOL
    Saul are you happy with your car? if so then its all good:thumb: If not:aha: sell it.
    whatever evidence you are looking for other than the videos I am sorry you will not get it! take it and use it or leave it. I have done several housing and all are happy;) Another thing that show me you don't understand what is happening is that oil pressure didn't increase at WOT were are you getting this from? Look at that pressure in post 97. post a video of with your valve cap off I would love to see it!
     

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  4. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    Here ya go so you can first hand see it. The 90 air cooled housing is the same as the 92 housing.

    Youre not actually getting a pressure drop. You are just getting a different reading by swapping the housing.
     

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  5. SaulHudson

    SaulHudson Proven Member

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    Kiggly measured the filter loss right about 20lbs.
     

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  6. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    I was getting idle pressure drop. Oil wasn't flowing like in the video with the forward facing housing. It was with the 1990 housing and also with the modded forward housing but not until I plugged the hole. I will continue to post this over and over because I know first hand what the before and after results were I saw it with my own eyes and car been running great ever since! 6 modded housing and all flows like in my video.

    From what I see one of the pics the housing has a hole in it and the other one don't. I think those who are chiming in didn't see the video in post #1. So they are arguing without reading all 6 pages!

    here is the video again
    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/9HWr74pYjx8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     

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  7. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    That video shows nothing either. Without a gauge teed into the same spot for all results you still haven't convinced any of us that welding that small of a hole makes that big of a difference. The pressure across the filter as I stated before is almost 15psi just at idle. Gets as low as 11-12 of a drop. But when you rev out throughout the rpm range the gap of pressure drop widens.

    What your doing really isn't doin much at all. Until you show me back to back pressure readings it's a waste of anyone's time to do this.
     

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  8. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    uploadfromtaptalk1391637158266.jpg LOL
     

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  9. LandSpeed-DSM

    LandSpeed-DSM Proven Member

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    I'm not playing word games, I've been very explicit in my statements this whole time to avoid it.

    You are being intellectually dishonest for no reason at all.

    29sec shaky-cam vid of your car idling and the stock oil pressure "switch" are not data nor evidence. Running the pump with a drill and watching oil come it is not evidence.

    You have made some barely qualifiable observations with no quantifying information from a test or control situation.

    That's the primary issue here.

    Secondary would be a poor or misunderstanding of fluid mechanics, tertiary to that would be the location of the sending unit relative to the main galley, peripherals and the filter.

    All of which would be completely unnecessary if you weren't trying to tout this as a general "fix" to something that has not been established as a problem.
     

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  10. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    Like I said "Word games again" which mean nothing at all. Empty speech:rolleyes:
     

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  11. LandSpeed-DSM

    LandSpeed-DSM Proven Member

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    Right, because factual and methodical accuracy is meaningless..
     

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  12. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    uploadfromtaptalk1391638179354.jpg Lol!
     

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  13. LandSpeed-DSM

    LandSpeed-DSM Proven Member

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    Words do have definitions, you know.
     

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  14. boost97gst

    boost97gst Proven Member

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    This needs to be done with a gauge by someone. Same weight oil, same filter etc etc. Otherwise there are no CONTROLS in this experiment. Without a control and a test and with many variables, no conclusion can be made definitively. That would be a scientific, methodical approach.
    The intentions were all well and good but after looking at the vids, posts it just cant be taken as fact.....yet.
    Get some happy volunteers to do before and after, like i said: keeping the variables limited to ONE THING, that little hole. Then lets see if theres merit to it.
    You have to agree with the method bro, its how everything is proven.
     
  15. LandSpeed-DSM

    LandSpeed-DSM Proven Member

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    For honesty, accuracy and consistency there is an established protocol for developing ideas on how "things" actually work and effect other "things" in the real world:

    [​IMG]

    From what you have shared, this is the most affirmative statement you could have made:
    "Hey guys, here's my hypothesis and here's an associated observation."

    But that's not what you did. Instead, when you received outside analysis you went off the deep end.

    We would not have gotten much beyond the dark ages with this mindset.

    This is precisely what I am trying to get at..

    Even then we run into two problems:

    1.) Where the sender is taking pressure in the housing relative to the control.
    2.) That every single setup will yield different results.

    I shared my results from different spots on the engine with my particular configuration of parts and a 90 Air/Air OFH.. but I qualified it as such... "my particular" results.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014

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  16. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    I understand the method approach this is how I built this monster. With that being said this thread wasn't started from a let see which filter housing with documentation flows the best it was incidental that i found my issue and the difference in the two housing. I didn't start it either to convince people to mod their housing. I put the discovery out there and some ran with negativity.

    I keep mentioning nobody here has to do it the difference in 6 cars and my car is enough evidence for me! This is one of those threads if you can use the info then good if not that's good also it everybody own decision. I don't see what the big deal is use it or not plain and simple! Lol
     

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  17. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    If I was on the shark tank show trying to get rich yeah it needs to follow this protocol. but I am not trying to profit or convince no one to mod their filter housing they can IMO just keep building and parting out their cars and this is what is killing the dsm community! Some things needs to be left simple!
     

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  18. LandSpeed-DSM

    LandSpeed-DSM Proven Member

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    Except you didn't build your car through that method, perusal of past turbo and cam discussions with you show the same pattern that emerged here.

    You've claimed at several points that it fixes things. This sort of claim requires a significant burden of proof - both that the item in question was the cause, and that your modification was the fix.

    This includes assertions as egregious as blaming spun bearings on the OFH type:
    Now who's playing word games? :hmm:

    This is how bad information gets out and about, especially when there are at least a handful around here that accept what you say without examination then turn around and give it out as advice to newbies:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=153389876

    From this thread:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...o-build-issues-experiences.html#post153389876

    This isn't me "trolling" or going out of my way to be a dick about it.
     

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  19. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    Lol I love my engine investment. Unmodded forward facing filter spin rod bearing and I stand behind that.!! :cool: Maybe they know the people filter housing I modded for free and how happy they were!
     

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  20. LandSpeed-DSM

    LandSpeed-DSM Proven Member

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    With nothing to support your claim. Which is the whole reason this conversation continues.

    Now, I have this rock that keeps away tigers. Since, I've had this rock and distributed equivalent rocks to friends at no charge, none of us have been mauled by tigers.

    I stand by my equally baseless and silly claim.
     

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  21. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    The forward housing does not lower oil pressure in the engine. It also doesn't cause blown bottom ends. You have issues elsewhere that caused a spun bearing.
     

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  22. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    Please disregard this statement^^^. Forward facing filter will kill your engine unless you mod it! I have never spun a rod bearing because the two locals that did had a forward facing filter on their car and I knew the filter housing linked the 2 failures! Those failures and my fix is all I need to be convinced. Please quite trolling the thread and let those who read it be the judge as to what they want to do!
     

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  23. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    Read what I wrote above. You are getting a different reading off the housing. Maybe you missed the factual information I posted earlier in the thread.

    UGH nevermind Ill just repost it.
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...ng-filter-important-info-6.html#post153390615
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...ng-filter-important-info-6.html#post153390627
     

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  24. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    You don't know that this is true and have no proof stating it either.
     

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  25. LandSpeed-DSM

    LandSpeed-DSM Proven Member

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    So, about that anti-tiger rock of mine... LOL
     

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