Forward facing filter "Important Info"

[ceedawg]

Did you use a value reading oil pressure gauge to know you had low oil pressure in the first place?

I have a oil value reading oil pressure guage but I'm still setting up my v3 eculink to get the car running. Hopefully in the next two weeks after better weather I will have the car setup and running and will be able to report oil pressure under All circumstances

 

[1qkfwd]

Since we have issues with keepin oil in the pan. Without balance shafts I'd almost be tempted to leave the hole and not port the ofh.

 

[keltalon]

You should check out the oil bleed holes in the cylinder head. With the valve cover off they will spray oil ten feet in the air pretty easily with a nice size stream. These holes are smaller than the hole being talked about here. These are what keeps the oil pressure in the head lower than in the block.

Exactly! !

 

[1qkfwd]

I just realized that I am running a forward facing on my fwd and Its ported. Head pressure is 4-6psi block pressure 15-18. Wot at the block exceeds 75psi like its suppose to. This is running 10-30w oil on a loose clearance bottom end. The 1G lifters don't make a peep either. The engine responds just as if it was stock with the balance shafts in place.

I'm not totally convinced that this needs to be welded. At higher pressures its going to be less of a problem. And at lower rpms we really don't need a whole lot of pressure since there is not a lot of stress on the bearings.

You should check out the oil bleed holes in the cylinder head. With the valve cover off they will spray oil ten feet in the air pretty easily with a nice size stream. These holes are smaller than the hole being talked about here. These are what keeps the oil pressure in the head lower than in the block.

You do realize that they have to be since the pressures in that area of the head are suppose to be less than 15psi. The pressure before the regulator is always way less than that.

There is a filter drop and those holes are regulated by the HLA regulator. That's what keeps the head pressures low.

 

[Benjyc32]

Do any of you guys have a problem with the oil filter housing leaking from not being tight enough? I can keep tightening the nut on it but it always seems to work itself loose again.

 

[SaulHudson]

Since we have issues with keepin oil in the pan. Without balance shafts I'd almost be tempted to leave the hole and not port the ofh.

Op was asked by multiple people if the engine had shafts and squirters, no reply.
This is a huge variable.

 

[keltalon]

I just realized that I am running a forward facing on my fwd and Its ported. Head pressure is 4-6psi block pressure 15-18. Wot at the block exceeds 75psi like its suppose to. This is running 10-30w oil on a loose clearance bottom end. The 1G lifters don't make a peep either. The engine responds just as if it was stock with the balance shafts in place.

I'm not totally convinced that this needs to be welded. At higher pressures its going to be less of a problem. And at lower rpms we really don't need a whole lot of pressure since there is not a lot of stress on the bearings.



You do realize that they have to be since the pressures in that area of the head are suppose to be less than 15psi. The pressure before the regulator is always way less than that.

There is a filter drop and those holes are regulated by the HLA regulator. That's what keeps the head pressures low.

Good that yours is working fine. Mine wasn't and I fixed it. I didn't start this thread to persuade others to plug the hole. If this information helps anyone good if not then that's good as well yall know me! Lol

 

[1qkfwd]

Good that yours is working fine. Mine wasn't and I fixed it. I didn't start this thread to persuade others to plug the hole. If this information helps anyone good if not then that's good as well yall know me! Lol

But it seems that your putting a bandaid to an underlying problem. Its not a bad thing that you brought up that the FFOFH has this hole because it seems that this would benefit a standard OFH on an engine without balance shafts. Simply drilling a small relief hold in a standard ofh would fix a lot.

Id rather have that oil pissing back into the pan at higher rpms than to try and fight its way back down from the head.

 

[bryanwheat]

I just realized that I am running a forward facing on my fwd and Its ported. Head pressure is 4-6psi block pressure 15-18. Wot at the block exceeds 75psi like its suppose to. This is running 10-30w oil on a loose clearance bottom end. The 1G lifters don't make a peep either. The engine responds just as if it was stock with the balance shafts in place.

I'm not totally convinced that this needs to be welded. At higher pressures its going to be less of a problem. And at lower rpms we really don't need a whole lot of pressure since there is not a lot of stress on the bearings.



You do realize that they have to be since the pressures in that area of the head are suppose to be less than 15psi. The pressure before the regulator is always way less than that.

There is a filter drop and those holes are regulated by the HLA regulator. That's what keeps the head pressures low.

Of coarse I realize that. I am saying that because those holes which are smaller and way further away from the pump and see a lower volume and pressure than the ofh are releasing quite a bit of oil. Now imagine how much a hole double the size with 3x the pressure and volume will flow.

 

[bryanwheat]

But it seems that your putting a bandaid to an underlying problem. Its not a bad thing that you brought up that the FFOFH has this hole because it seems that this would benefit a standard OFH on an engine without balance shafts. Simply drilling a small relief hold in a standard ofh would fix a lot.

Id rather have that oil pissing back into the pan at higher rpms than to try and fight its way back down from the head.

Oil is already being relieved back to the pan by the oil relief valve in the filter housing.

 

[keltalon]

But it seems that your putting a bandaid to an underlying problem. Its not a bad thing that you brought up that the FFOFH has this hole because it seems that this would benefit a standard OFH on an engine without balance shafts. Simply drilling a small relief hold in a standard ofh would fix a lot.

Id rather have that oil pissing back into the pan at higher rpms than to try and fight its way back down from the head.

I disagree it's not a bandage it's a filter housing not designed for the dual overhead cam. I know a few people personally that ruined their engines with the ffofh. Low oil pressure is common with it i will post this link again for reference http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=393666

 

[1qkfwd]

Oil is already being relieved back to the pan by the oil relief valve in the filter housing.

Yes but with a simple bse, pressures go up and over run the relief. Easy enough to start small and drill a pre relief hole. With the hole small enough it's only goin to be a restriction at higher pressures and force the regulator to do its job as intended.

 

[T is for TURBO]

But it seems that your putting a bandaid to an underlying problem. Its not a bad thing that you brought up that the FFOFH has this hole because it seems that this would benefit a standard OFH on an engine without balance shafts. Simply drilling a small relief hold in a standard ofh would fix a lot.

Id rather have that oil pissing back into the pan at higher rpms than to try and fight its way back down from the head.

I agree with this sentiment 100% This thread reminds me of the extended slave cylinder rods and Synchromesh/Synchroshift gear oils. They were band-aids, and the problems ultimately reared their heads a little later on in life.

I am by no means saying this should be completely over looked, but I would hesitate to call it a fix, when it might not really be one.

Correlation does not imply causation.

 

[SaulHudson]

I disagree it's not a bandage it's a filter housing not designed for the dual overhead cam. I know a few people personally that ruined their engines with the ffofh. Low oil pressure is common with it i will post this link again for reference 2G How to raise oil pressure with a new built engine - DSM Forums

Can you tell us about your engine thought, every built engine oil pressure is different due to setup.
There are also not enough people chiming in to make a consensus that the majority of ffofh with built engines have low pressure. People have chimed In here with low oil pressure but that is because the subject matter of this thread related to low.

If you have balance shafts and squirters than your solution doesn't relate to engine with no shafts since the amount is not measurable.

 

[bryanwheat]

Yes but with a simple bse, pressures go up and over run the relief. Easy enough to start small and drill a pre relief hole. With the hole small enough it's only goin to be a restriction at higher pressures and force the regulator to do its job as intended.

Of coarse pressure goes up with a bse, everyone knows that. You can just port the relief hole like people have been doing for many years. If you take your time to read thru the thread you will see that he is not the only person experiencing this.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

It's not a prevalent issue, is the thing. A few people have ever mentioned any such issue related to an FFOFH.

And then there is this thought on the matter, in bold..

Right. But, without actually measuring pressure you can't do much with that information. And every single setup will have different results on a straight up install.

That's why we can't make blanket claims about the benefits of just welding the sucker shut. It's also why I went to the "trouble" to install a proper gauge/sensor kit with the ability to move the sensor to different spots in the system.

In fact, you would be better able to tailor your pressure vs. oil weight requirements with that hole present because to change or alter pressure, you now have two options:
- Shimming or cutting the piston spring as necessary, or installing a different one (JNZ unit for example)
- Threading/countersinking the FFOFH's relief hole for something like nitrous jets or similar orifices.

Also, why not just run a Kiggly HLA to keep oil out of the head?

 

[1qkfwd]

I disagree it's not a bandage it's a filter housing not designed for the dual overhead cam. I know a few people personally that ruined their engines with the ffofh. Low oil pressure is common with it i will post this link again for reference 2G How to raise oil pressure with a new built engine - DSM Forums

This doesn't lead me to believe that the OFH is the problem. He even states that he only flipped one bearing when doing the BSE. That's a huge leak if its only one bearing flipped.

The ofh doesn't know what engine that its feeding. It wasn't designed for a specific engine more than it was designed for a certain chassis and certain oil requirements.

 

[keltalon]

Interesting and the vid would have definitely spoke volumes to convince the skeptics. Glad mines is welded thanks again Kels.

You already know carl I don't care about HATERS! Most HATERS tend to follow the cookie cutter route and they all end up with the same results! That's just not me. I just hate that this thread labled "Important information" has drawn the cookie cutters. This was the case when I mention breaking the cyclone record the cookie cutters came out of the woodworks but nothing was said when I put down over 650 cookie cutters HATERS disappeared! My car has been running superb and I will be testing a new set of cams and exhaust manifold here real soon. look for the cyclone to get close to 700 the modded forward facing filter housing is performing as intended is all I can say. I post this video again good oil pressure!!

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ZQYGqAWvhMU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This doesn't lead me to believe that the OFH is the problem. He even states that he only flipped one bearing when doing the BSE. That's a huge leak if its only one bearing flipped.

The ofh doesn't know what engine that its feeding. It wasn't designed for a specific engine more than it was designed for a certain chassis and certain oil requirements.

Lol Post 97 is all I can say. I would love to see a non modded filter housing pump oil like that at idle! And again I am not trying to convince you, you are trying to convince yourself. I have nothing to gain and have modded 6 forward facing housing to date free of charge and they all are happy. I will keep modding them as long as I am in the dsm game. Just my $.02

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Using "skeptics" with some derogatory connotation to make them out to be "haters?" Really?

Consider the entire scientific community "skeptics," then.

You have an experience with no actual data and it is relative to YOUR setup, that is all at this stage.

Were you hoping this would be some sort of oft-talked about "Keltalon Mod" that would go down in the annals of DSM History?

I do not understand this mindset at all. And you dismiss someone with actual data and pertinent lab and shop time when it comes to pressure and flow in open and closed systems.. as well as several other folks who have been doing this for years. I've only in this thread seen anyone talk about pressure issues associated with this OFH.

Why take it down this route? Is it really some sort of unacceptable defeat for you to just be like "Hey guys, here's my hypothesis and here's an associated observation." Then leave it at that?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

That's pretty childish.

Being civil, explaining the scientific method - an established process mind you not my opinions.. using data, etc. was all a waste on you, but fortunately future searchers will see what was presented and weigh it against "because I said so."

Why treat nearly every technical topic that you have a belief about in this manner? Once you have rationalized something to yourself do you ever re-evaluate things?

 

[1qkfwd]

First off I just figured out exactly why your pressure reads lower when you switch over to a forward facing housing. It has nothing to do with that little bleed hole that you can barely fit a standard thumb tack into. The holes in the head supply rail that relives oil for the lifters are damn near twice the size as the dinky little relieve port on the OFH.

Ok now It has been mentioned that we have a good amount of pressure loss across the oil filter. Now I have sitting in front of me two oil filter housings. First a BNIB forward facing housing. Second is a 1G water cooled OFH. Now looking at both of these, the spot for the oil sending unit on the 92 water cooled is pre filter and is going to have the highest reading. The forward facing housing the sending unit spot is post oil filter. So yes you will automatically get a lower reading, but your pressure is not really lower.

 

[SaulHudson]

You already know carl I don't care about HATERS! Most HATERS tend to follow the cookie cutter route and they all end up with the same results! That's just not me. I just hate that this thread labled "Important information" has drawn the cookie cutters. This was the case when I mention breaking the cyclone record the cookie cutters came out of the woodworks but nothing was said when I put down over 650 cookie cutters HATERS disappeared! My car has been running superb and I will be testing a new set of cams and exhaust manifold here real soon. look for the cyclone to get close to 700 the modded forward facing filter housing is performing as intended is all I can say. I post this video again good oil pressure!!

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ZQYGqAWvhMU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Usually people are skeptical for a reason, many times that reason is lack of supporting evidence.
Here is the definition :
Skepticism is generally any questioning attitude towards knowledge, facts, or opinions/beliefs stated as facts.

In this case this is an opinion stated as fact, since you have no supporting evidence other than how many pink unicorns exist and you say it is true for all ffofh builds. You even go as for to blanket advocate the statement to anyone with a ffofh. This is wrong. Every setup is different and you should not modify your oil system until you have tested it and know you have a problem. Do you realize how many oil passages get blocked off when you delete balance shafts and oil squirters? That causes a very significant pressure increase.

There would be no skeptics on this thread if you said hey guys I have a low oil pressure. I know this because I used my aem oil pressure gauge to measure it in the factory port on the oil filter housing. It read X at idle and X at WOT. When I found this hole in my ofh and welded it my pressure increased to X at idle and X at WOT.

 

[keltalon]

Usually people are skeptical for a reason, many times that reason is lack of supporting evidence.
Here is the definition :
Skepticism is generally any questioning attitude towards knowledge, facts, or opinions/beliefs stated as facts.

In this case this is an opinion stated as fact, since you have no supporting evidence other than how many pink unicorns exist and you say it is true for all ffofh builds. You even go as for to blanket advocate the statement to anyone with a ffofh. This is wrong. Every setup is different and you should not modify your oil system until you have tested it and know you have a problem. Do you realize how many oil passages get blocked off when you delete balance shafts and oil squirters? That causes a very significant pressure increase.

at WOT.

the video is supporting evidence these haters refuse to see it as evidence are you kidding me! this is turning into a word game. I posted the video as big as your screen can hold and the haters still don't want to see it despite copying it in their post
Saul are you happy with your car? if so then its all good If not sell it.
whatever evidence you are looking for other than the videos I am sorry you will not get it! take it and use it or leave it. I have done several housing and all are happy Another thing that show me you don't understand what is happening is that oil pressure didn't increase at WOT were are you getting this from? Look at that pressure in post 97. post a video of with your valve cap off I would love to see it!

 

[1qkfwd]

Here ya go so you can first hand see it. The 90 air cooled housing is the same as the 92 housing.

Youre not actually getting a pressure drop. You are just getting a different reading by swapping the housing.

 

[SaulHudson]

Kiggly measured the filter loss right about 20lbs.