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1G Finally took transmission apart, advice needed on which parts need replacement. (More photos!)

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Good thread, lets just keep it that way fella's.
 
I had good intentions when i started writing that but somewhere in the middle I just went off the rails and let frustrations from the past cloud my judgement. I've already apologized in our PMs so im hoping we can get this thread back on track, there's a lot of good info in here.
 
How about a photo of the separator and the puller you're using? I ended up doing my front wheel bearings with a puller I already had and some fairly sizable grade 8 hardware I got at ACE (big bolts, nuts, washers). I figured wheel bearings last 100k easy, so why buy the special tool. A press is now on my short list (along with a blast cabinet), but they do take a bit of space in the garage, which for some of us is at a premium. Some folks have their own lifts, but the rest of us make do. I've used lots of PVC pipe fitting to drive oil seals. Tool use is a sign of intelligence; biological fact. And I've still got all my fingers, so that's a plus!
 
I like this thread and I'll learn some things from it.
I'm a little surprised at how the teeth are worn on the 2nd gear synchro, post #27.
I mean from what I can see, it looks like some of the teeth are about half worn off but some of the other teeth on the same ring are pretty much all there. Not really sure how that would happen. I would think all the teeth on the same ring would have a similar amount of missing material.
@XC92 could you re-post jpegs 121106 and 121017 at full resolution? I'd like to get a better look at those teeth.
 
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Ya, 2nd gear synchro teeth are definitely wasted (post 27) - just compare them to 3/4 synchro teeth in post 38. Even Tim said to replace 1/2 synchros in post 29.
Actually even I could see that. But Tim said that the 3rd synchro should be replaced too. It's not nearly as bad as 1st & 2nd but he knows what to look for beyond the obvious and I don't. I might end up replacing 4th too, just to be safe and no have to go back in there for a long time.

I like this thread and I'll learn some things from it.
I'm a little surprised at how the teeth are worn on the 2nd gear synchro, post #27.
I mean from what I can see, it looks like some of the teeth are about half worn off but some of the other teeth on the same ring are pretty much all there. Not really sure how that would happen. I would think all the teeth on the same ring would have a similar amount of missing material.
@XC92 could you re-post jpegs 121106 and 121017 at full resolution? I'd like to get a better look at those teeth.

I like this thread and I'll learn some things from it.
I'm a little surprised at how the teeth are worn on the 2nd gear synchro, post #27.
I mean from what I can see, it looks like some of the teeth are about half worn off but some of the other teeth on the same ring are pretty much all there. Not really sure how that would happen. I would think all the teeth on the same ring would have a similar amount of missing material.
@XC92 could you re-post jpegs 121106 and 121017 at full resolution? I'd like to get a better look at those teeth.

I think you mean 121027 as there's no 121917, so here goes:

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My guess as to why some teeth are half worn and some are intact, is that the intact teeth didn't engage with matching sleeve teeth but instead went through their keyways. Notice how the middle two teeth are intact, matching the double keyways of the 1/2 sleeve.

If so then over time this would have evened out with all teeth equally worn, so I'm also guessing that most of this wear took place over a small number of really bad gear grinding events due to a clutch that didn't fully disengage, perhaps even just one or two, leading me to double clutch and rev match after this happened to avoid more grinding.

How about a photo of the separator and the puller you're using? I ended up doing my front wheel bearings with a puller I already had and some fairly sizable grade 8 hardware I got at ACE (big bolts, nuts, washers). I figured wheel bearings last 100k easy, so why buy the special tool. A press is now on my short list (along with a blast cabinet), but they do take a bit of space in the garage, which for some of us is at a premium. Some folks have their own lifts, but the rest of us make do. I've used lots of PVC pipe fitting to drive oil seals. Tool use is a sign of intelligence; biological fact. And I've still got all my fingers, so that's a plus!

Better yet, here are links to these parts:



I was able to use these to take apart both stacks. However it's going to be a challenge to put them back together, at least for the input shaft, as I'm going to have to pull against 2nd gear and the 2 side "studs" aren't quite long enough.

I might try to find short extenders or flip the splitter around so that the cupped side goes against 2nd gear, but even if that works I'm concerned that this could chip the gear teeth. At worst I'll have a shop press it.

The intermediate shaft is short enough that these 2 tools should work, so long as I have the right adapters to get everything back on.

Btw I own a bearing installation tool, the Astro Pneumatic. It's a really good tool although it is kind of pricey at $80. But I was replacing the front wheel bearings on a different car and the only local shop I found that pressed parts charged a whopping $40 an axle, and for the cost of two of those I could own my own tool.

I figured that at worst I'd break even, but now I have to replace the front bearings on my Talon so I'm now coming out ahead. Of course owning a press would make even more sense, but I live in a smallish apartment with no place to put or store a press and would so rarely use one. Someday, maybe, if I have a bigger place or garage.
 
I think you mean 121027 as there's no 121917, so here goes:

My guess as to why some teeth are half worn and some are intact, is that the intact teeth didn't engage with matching sleeve teeth but instead went through their keyways. Notice how the middle two teeth are intact, matching the double keyways of the 1/2 sleeve.

If so then over time this would have evened out with all teeth equally worn, so I'm also guessing that most of this wear took place over a small number of really bad gear grinding events due to a clutch that didn't fully disengage, perhaps even just one or two, leading me to double clutch and rev match after this happened to avoid more grinding.

Yep those are the ones. Good, the 121106 is sharp enough to make the larger resolution worthwhile. That really helps me. I can't just replace lack of detail with my imagination like Tim or somebody who has seen lots of these. Thanks!

The 2 parts of your theory about how this could happen sounds right to me. But before this, I just thought that all the teeth would engage every time. Didn't know that some teeth would fall into a place where they aren't doing anything! Ha! So this is really interesting.
 
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It's still just a theory as I haven't tried to match the synchro up with the matching gear and sleeve to see if this could happen. But I can't think of another reason.
 
A quick question for Tim, if you're still following this thread after that whole sidetrack above. It concerns the existing play in the center diff.

You said that OEM thrust washers/spacers were basically unavailable at this point, other than one that may or may not help, so I'm likely stuck with whatever's in there.

But once everything's put back together, do the spacers on the front output shaft and VC, along with the snap ring on the VC and detent ball on the output shaft, center the cross shaft so that play is evenly distributed between the two side/pinion gears?

Given the great condition of all the center diff parts once I opened it up, is this what basically took care of all this free play and prevented excessive power going to one or the other pinion gear, or otherwise doing damage to the center diff internals?

I measured the upper washer and it ranged from 0.87-0.92mm, which basically falls within the 0.83-0.91mm thickness range of the MD720677 washer. The one washer that you said was still available, MD720678, has a 0.93-1.00mm range.

The lower washer ranges from 2.44-2.50mm, which falls within the 2.43-2.50mm range of the MD741409 washer (in fact the number 9, looking at it with the flange section facing down, is stamped on it).

Is it worth spending the $25 or so to swap the existing upper washer for the MD720678, or would that de-center things without also replacing the lower washer with one that's around 0.1mm thicker, which would be the MD741408 washer with a range of 2.51-2.58mm, but which you said was no longer available?

So am I good, or at least good enough, even though the free play in the center diff isn't ideal, especially given my stock setup power levels and the kind of driving I do?
 
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So, I finally got the last of the parts I needed to put the trans back together, specifically race shims and a lock ring, and a few other odds and ends, and have starting reassembling it. But I've come across what I'm sure is a silly problem.

Per Tim's advice I took apart the center diff to see what condition it was in (very good, it turned out, although there's a bit more play than is ideal but they no longer make spacers so it's a moot point).

But now that I'm putting it back together, with blue threadlock, I can't figure out how to torque it down to the recommended ~54ft-lb. I have a torque wrench, but I don't know how to secure the diff case to have something to tighten the bolts against.

Any suggestions? I suppose that I could use an impact driver (not wrench, as that would be too much, but a driver, the kind that has a 1/4" hex connection and using a 3/8" square anvil adapter), but I fear overtorquing it. So how do I do it manually?

I don't have a big enough vise and even if I did I'd worry about damaging the case. Is there some safe "trick" to do this, or should I just use the impact driver and be careful?

I even tried shifting the input and intermediate shafts into gear and putting all three into the case, but there's nothing to secure the tops of the shafts to keep them from moving around and I worried about chipping gears.

As always, it's the seemingly minor things that hold you back.
 
So the body of the diff is round, did you consider a strap-wrench to hold it? Straps can generate a lot of holding torque, as long as the strap doesn't distort whatever it is clinching (oil filters, for example). I don't think you could distort the diff case with a gorilla reefing on it. 54lbft should be doable.
 
You must have a teeny bench vise. It's never even crossed my mind. I chucked it up in the vise and just did it. Strap wrench would be my suggestion also. Or buy a bigger vise.
 
Thing is I don't even have a bench. Believe it or not, not everyone has or has room for a home workshop. I make do with what I can, tool bags, trunk, container, sidewalk, street, etc. I ended up using an impact driver. It's not nearly as powerful as even a 300ft-lb impact wrench and the bolts barely turned beyond what I was able to hand tighten them, so between that and the blue threadlock I think I'm good.

Now I've got another dilemma, figuring out how to fit the 2 main shafts, rails and forks into the clutch housing and interlock plate. It's not as intuitive as I assumed. I quit for the day and will research it online, maybe some videos will help. Certainly the rest and time away will. You sometimes get to a point where your mind just doesn't work well anymore. Did I mention that there was also a major flood here last night and I had to help my mom with her car that had some damage because of it. Fun stuff.

Ok I figured it out. 3-4 fork was upside down. Took everything out, installed fork the right way (with center hole projection pointing down, not up), and everything went in ok. After I confirmed that everything was shifting properly (allowing for the inherent play given that the shafts and rails weren't yet secured on top), I installed the new 1-2 & 3-4 fork pins (with the pin slits pointing up and aligned with the rails).

Enough for today. Tomorrow I hope to complete the assembly and put the trans back on the car, along with all the other parts you have to remove to get at it, bleed the clutch, etc., and see if all my work and patience paid off.
 
@XC92
That's a bummer about the floods. It does sound like Queens had some of the worst of it.
If you need to take a break from it sometime you can visit out here and I'll take you for a ride on the Volcano escape road. Preferably sometime when there's not a wildfire in the area.
Hoping for a good result with your tranny!

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@XC92
That's a bummer about the floods. It does sound like Queens had some of the worst of it.
If you need to take a break from it sometime you can visit out here and I'll take you for a ride on the Volcano escape road. Preferably sometime when there's not a wildfire in the area.
Hoping for a good result with your tranny!

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Appreciate the offer but I lived in Seattle for 10 years so I know it well. Lots of great drives in and around (although with the viaduct gone it's harder to get a good view of downtown and Elliot Bay while driving, it's actually how I left Seattle headed for I-90).

Also lots of great cycling. I used to ride from near Green Lake where I lived to Alki in summers once or twice a week. A couple of time I was so tired I took the water taxi back. My favorite drives were back roads east of Lake Washington and beyond, like to Mount Baker, Highway 2, Mount Rainier, etc.

The flood was really bad but we got lucky. I'd say that the PNW still has it a lot worse. Volcanos, earthquakes, floods, wildfires, mudslides, tsunamis, 9-10 months of very little sunshine, etc. But I loved living there and miss it terribly.

Of course I drove my Talon there and back and had it the whole time. Took it to Vancouver a bunch of times. If I keep it long enough I just might do one more cross-country drive in it, with Seattle definitely a stop.
 
So, finally got the trans put together and back on the car. Not sure which was harder. Never mind, getting it back on the car was harder, much, much harder. Last time I did this it was a pain but the subframe was off (wanted to clean it up, get rid of rust & paint it, plus clean up the steering rack and replace a torn boot) which made it a bit easier. This time the subframe was on which made it almost impossible, almost. Tried it multiple ways till finally it took. Not something I want to do again for a very long time, so hopefully the trans rebuild was good.

Tomorrow I finish up, reconnecting all the trans connections, e.g. slave, cables, reverse switch, reinstalling the starter, axles, the t-case, exhaust, frame members, etc., putting oil back in the trans & t-case (and engine for that matter since I dropped the oil pan to clean it), lowering the car, crossing my fingers and seeing if it paid off or if I have to redo everything. Kind of nervous as I've never done anything this complicated and advanced and so much could have gone wrong. I also cut a few corners on procedures (but not parts, only OEM or high quality aftermarket).

Wish me luck!
 
So 2 1/2 months for a first timer inexperienced tranny rebuild to get all parts (like those pesky shims and time to do the solder method of shafts presets), and all the other parts places that list they have the part but really don't and won't tell you this leaving you waiting a month for the "back ordered" part that never arrives, plus doing all the other things everyone does "as long as the tranny is out", plus putting it all back together. Yep that was me too on my first time. Remember you thought you'd finish this in what was it - a few weeks, a month? Congrats on tackling this however - you're one of the very few who actually take this on and TAKE THE TIME TO DO IT RIGHT (and aren't embarrassed to ask questions about stuff they don't know). Your tranny will now shift like butter. I'm impressed!
 
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So 2 1/2 months for a first timer inexperienced tranny rebuild to get all parts (like those pesky shims and time to do the solder method of shafts presets), and all the other parts places that list they have the part but really don't and won't tell you this leaving you waiting a month for the "back ordered" part that never arrives, plus doing all the other things everyone does "as long as the tranny is out", plus putting it all back together. Yep that was me too on my first time. Remember you thought you'd finish this in what was it - a few weeks, a month? Congrats on tackling this however - you're one of the very few who actually take this on and TAKE THE TIME TO DO IT RIGHT (and aren't embarrassed to ask questions about stuff they don't know). Your tranny will now shift like butter. I'm impressed!
Heh, I'm the world's worst estimator. I'm excellent at guessing other peoples' stuff, but not my own. I'm sure that an expert could have done all this in several weeks, with a proper shop and tools and enough free time.

But between having to figure out things I overlooked, endless snags along the way, mistakes, fixing mistakes, figuring out what to order, ordering, waiting for the parts to arrive, realizing that I forgot some things so having to order and wait for those to arrive, the solder thing, figuring out where to get shims, ordering them, waiting for them, yet more snags, deciding to take on several additional minor tasks "since it's already apart and I'm there", bad weather, other obligations, needing to rest, and so on, yeah, I was never going to do this in less than a few months.

Btw as examples of snags that delayed things, today I reconnected the shifter cables at both ends and both were WAY off, much more than could have been compensated for with the adjustment turnbuckle (or whatever it's called). I was scratching my head wondering how this could be since nothing changed on either end in terms of distances even though I rebuilt both.

Then, on a hunch, I removed the trans cable bracket and reversed it, and voila, problem solved. The FSM has a terrible diagram of how it's oriented and I didn't take enough photos before I took everything apart.

Similar snags were deciding to clean up and paint the clutch hose bracket since it's also used to ground the trans, losing one of the air box's securing bolts to the front end's innards (have to fish it out now), and stupidly refilling the trans oil BEFORE reinstalling both CV axles (I probably lost a third of a bottle of oil out both axle hole before I managed to plug them and install the axle.

Assuming everything works, it will have been around 2.5 months. But we're talking not just a trans rebuild but rebuilding the front steering knuckles including new bearings, cleaning, derusting and painting them and cleaning up the tone rings, cleaning up and painting the front wheel wells, replacing the front brake hoses and clutch short line and host, replacing ALL the shifter and shift cable bushings (including the trans bracket ones), and other stuff I forgot about.

I had hope to get it all wrapped up today, but, predictably, it didn't go as planned. I probably need one more day, half really (yeah right). I just have to reinstall the exhaust, right and left members and gusset, rebleed the brakes and clutch to make sure, torque down the axle nuts, couple of other small things, and I'm good. I hope the car doesn't blow up or at least the trans!

Of course this is just the latest task. I still need to replace the TB and all other related parts, replace rear bushings, BJs and links and clean the rear up, drop and clean the tank, and rebuild the clutch pedal assembly. Also the body needs some work, scratches, dings, dents, chips, rust. But that's for later. Now I want to enjoy this phase of the work.
 
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We weren't too badly affected, mostly outdoor plant damage and minor car water seepage (not the Talon!). Others nearby weren't so lucky. But it did delay working on the car for a few days. Hopefully the rebuild was good and I won't have to take the trans off again. I'm taking tomorrow off but I should know in a few days and I'll post here. Also an after the fact summary of what I did, so others might benefit from it.
 
Ok, one (hopefully) last question. Yesterday I reinstalled the exhaust pipe and front frame members, and just have a few last relatively minor remaining tasks before I can lower the car and start it up to see if all my work paid off. I put in a new downpipe gasket where it connects to the bottom of the exhaust manifold, along with 2 new nuts and a new bolt that's been missing for years.

Thing is, because the exhaust was off for so long, I plugged both it and the bottom of the manifold opening with a shop towel to prevent critters and dirt from getting in. I'm positive that I removed the towel from the exhaust pipe and while pretty sure that I did the same from the manifold bottom I'm not 100% sure, and to avoid the damage that a shop towel could do to the cat and muffler, as a sanity check I intend to disconnect them to make sure, then reconnect everything.

My question is whether I can reuse the new gasket, or if it has to be replaced every time you remove the pipe from the manifold, because crushing it renders it useless for reuse? Also, while we're at it, apply threadlock or something else to the 2 nuts and bolt, or torque down as is?
 
Does exhaust manifold mean O2 housing? Not exactly sure which gasket you're refering to. If it hasn't been heat cycled I'd just reuse it.
 
It's the gasket that connects the very front part of the exhaust pipe to where it connects to what I assumed was the bottom of the manifold. If that's actually the O2 sensor housing, then yeah, that.

And no heat cycles. Literally installed it for the first time yesterday and the motor hasn't been started since. And in anticipation of this expected answer I just took it off to have a look-see and no towel, so I put everything back on.

While confirming no towel I saw what looked like a sensor in there with a whitish housing, which I assume is the O2 sensor. 1G DSMs have just one O2 sensor?

Today was supposed to be the day, but it's raining so I'll probably have to wait till tomorrow. I just took advantage of a 20 minute lull. Getting antsy...

Ok, one more minor question. One of the eight or so exhaust pipe hangers on a 1G AWD turbo has a metal "protector". It's sort of shaped like a suitcase corner protector and is supposed to go on the left-side hanger around the middle of the pipe where there are two hangers on either side.

What exactly is it supposed to protect the hanger from and why there and on that side? The only thing I can think of it protecting is the prop shaft, but that's on the other side of the exhaust pipe, unless the FSM has it wrong. It's on the passenger side on a FWD DSM according to this diagram, part #14 for both:

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