fast spoolin 450whp turbo?

[Fear]

have read some threads about the subject but not really found what i´m looking for.
engine spec is basicly a 7bolt evo3 engine with a ported head, e9 pistons/rods. will run on 98oct. dsm flange, evo x, t3 or other doesnt matter. most important is turbo supports around 450whp and as fast spooling on 4g63 as possible, also not interrested in big truck turbos like holset or chinese.
thanks!

 

[Bob_Gobblin]

HY-35 with the 9sqcm housing.. 450 awhp

 

[Macspsi]

Will you want more than 450 later on? Do you want the simplicity of a bolt-on setup? How much money do you want spend? Are all factors in this decision. If you feel as if you'll be satisfied with the 450 or maybe a little more want simplicity, least cost I'd go with the 20g Justin suggested. If you want a lot more go ahead and invest in a holset variant, and depending on if you want a 35 now and maybe a 40 later you'll already have the manifold and the hotparts required for it, and you'll be able to reach the upper 500's but of course you'll have to spend more.

Me personally I have a td05 20g I plan on keeping this for awhile until I max it out as it has pretty good potential and very fun on the street. As bad as this thing pulls I can't even imagine how the td06sl2 and the hx35 feels compared to it. Also make sure your car is prepped for the power these turbos are capable of dishing out.

 

[Fear]

hi!
yes i think i would be satisfied with 450whp in this car so i don´t feel the need to prepare for a future upgrade.
for a turbo alone i would be willing to pay up to 1000$ if i need, i would though like it to be somewhat cost effective. i think i could get a new super hx35 for around 600$. and on the other hand i got the new td05-20g laying around, i dont have a problem with rebuilding it and fit a td06sl2 shaft and so on, the important thing i feel would be wich would give the best powerband?

 

[counti41]

for something fun a turbine housing that is .60-.70 ar would be great for that turbo. the BEP .70a/r seems laggy given its a/r size. my 12cm spooled faster, even my 18cmspooled just as quick as a BEP .70a/r.

Got a lig of 30 psi at 2800 rpm. What gear is that in?

its all in the setup theres alot of little small things that add up. but the turbo combination made it all possible. cams was a big part of the spool as well. when you upgrade cams you loose 300rpm to 500rpm in spool alone. big cams spool turbos slow but extend the max rpm. and changes the powerband. almost all cams sacrifice torque and spool for power. thats why every big cam car i ran against with my hx35 setup lost. even built motor z06 c5/c6 vettes.

 

[Macspsi]

Me and another guy (dsmer) was discussing this very same fact. While you may make more peak power than me. I'm making my peak power or close to it for a much wider rpm range than you are, making my car the faster more capable one. That's what people come to love with the 16g-20g combinations and a lot of times are scared to move any bigger than that because they don't want to lose the spool characteristics of their current turbo's or having to build a crazy head setup and more than likely bottom end as well to spin their motor 8k and above to spool a given turbo to its potential. But it looks as if you found an even sweeter spot than the 16g-20g with your hx35 .

 

[GST with PSI]

and bty i had a holset hx35 with a 12cm holset turbine that was getting 30 psi by 2800rpm. on a 6bolt bottom head with 2gcylinder head on stock cams.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Macspsi]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I would say it's hard to believe as well a log or video proof would validate it but I have no reason not to take his word for it.

 

[GST with PSI]

C'mon...Even with stock cams, a 12cm housing, and Jesus himself driving the car; I don't ever see an HX35 making 30psi @ 2800rpm.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I must admit it's hard to believe. Even if you went twin-scroll with 1.25-1.4" OD piping and a true divided manifold I don't see 30psi @ 2800rpm...at least not on a 2.0L. Even with that TS setup on a 2.4 I'd bet you wouldn't see over 30psi until 3400ish. If he's got logs and proof though man, I'll be the first person to eat my words. Us forum cowboys are like that. .

 

[GST with PSI]

Of course, every setup is different, but, deviate too far from the norm and you're gonna want to back up your statements with facts IMO.

HX35:

The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

The 7blade hx35 has a 54mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEEM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/holset-turbos-faq.362444/#post-152122002

 

[jbeaton9292]

C'mon...Even with stock cams, a 12cm housing, and Jesus himself driving the car; I don't ever see an HX35 making 30psi @ 2800rpm.

I feel the same i had hx35 on my car in a .55ar bep with delta h264s and 9.5:1 pistons and a bep external gated manifold and ported 2g head +1mm valves and i was starting to make boost by 2800 and around 20psi by 3400 roughly

 

[91AwdBigRed]

The more I read about the hx35 makes me wanna get one?hmm... I was originally thinking of trying the new fp green because i already have a PR tial o2 housing.

 

[Bob_Gobblin]

The Hy spools even faster.. only flows 55 LBS tops in the logs I have seen But it also has a 9scm hot side.. So it chokes it off a bit.

 

[JusMX141]

The Hy spools even faster.. only flows 55 LBS tops in the logs I have seen But it also has a 9scm hot side.. So it chokes it off a bit.

Couldn't be more wrong.

In my experience with the HY35, it spools a bit slower than a HX35 in the .55 BEP housing....a shade over 4000 on level ground in 3rd, or about the same as a TD06 20G. I've also never seen a case where the HY stopped making airflow before the compressor was tapped out- even on a 2.4L stroker in an Evo at very high boost levels (38+psi). On that setup, the compressor was actually pushed beyond the map and it will still pulling hard.

 

[jbeaton9292]

The more I read about the hx35 makes me wanna get one?hmm... I was originally thinking of trying the new fp green because i already have a PR tial o2 housing.

You can still run your pr o2 housing with an hx35 just get a .55ar bolt on housing and it will bolt right up just fine

 

[Seamus]

Counti41, I think I am aware there are ways to optimize a cars engine. I've read and spent a lot if money with a very smart man to optimize my cam timing, boost control and tune. But that 2800 rpm peak pressure is somthing id have to see to believe. You didn't even tell us the pressure, gear or anything else. And doing it with stock 6 bolt lower end is the cherry on top. What did you do besides teaking the cams, and I'm curious as to what adjustments you made to them. Can you enlighten us? You definatly are on to something special that could benefit the whole community.

 

[Seamus]

91awdbigred,

i can tell you this, having just switched from an hx35 back to a 20g. The hx35 is not worth doing unless you want the power its capable of. If you just want a 400hp street car, mhi is better in my opinion. The hx35 is a big clunky thing, and making a sufficient oil drain can be a pain in the ass vs. An mhi turbo. And regardless of the claims you see on here, look at the dyno sheets. It doesn't spool as fast as forum tuners like to repeat. Its not a bad turbo though if you want like 500hp


cointi41,
you have to let us in in your secret. I have spent hours trading and tons of money with a very smart man optimizing my cam timing, tune and boost control to get that extra edge in spool and low end power that most people don't hunt for. I thought i had squeezed everything out of it. Please give us more details. You didn't even tell us what pressure you were hitting at 2800rpm. What adjustment did you make to cam timing? You didnt mention anything else you optimized, but there has to be more. The fact that you are doing this on a stock 6 bolt bottom is the cherry on top. A log would be awesome. I would love to have my turbo spooling 1000rpm faster than anyone else.

 

[GST with PSI]

cointi41,
you have to let us in in your secret.

Don't hold your breath...

 

[Bob_Gobblin]

Yea okay dude you are the only one I have read about that has issues spooling a holset.. I am also not using a BEP housing. there is no point in buying one. The Hy came off the automatic trucks and has a smaller housing. Like i said i am using the 9sqcm hot side.

 

[Seamus]

yea i aint holding my breath. its absurd.

 

[Fear]

seamus
how big was the difference in spool between the hx35 & 20g?

 

[wickedboost92]

Hey guys! I have read this whole forum. I have taken some pretty good stuff out of it. I'm gonna be going to a hx35 here shortly. I picked one up on a really good deal. Car is mostly gonna be street. It will see some track time here and there just to race with the friends at events and such. Just curious as to which cams you guys think would benefit my setup. And brands you guys recommend. I have been looking into getting the gsc just not sure s1 or s2. thanks guys