1. Join the Community!

    DSMtuners is a massive archive of DSM information - but more importantly, it's a COMMUNITY! Join in and participate with other DSMers, and invite all of your DSM friends to make this place their home. Chat with others, create a build thread, post questions and answers. Get involved! Logging in will also remove many of the advertisements, along with this notice. ;)

DSMLink nitrous controls + meth injection

Posted by mini zilo, Feb 22, 2008

Please Support Morrison Fabrications
Please Support ExtremePSI
  1. mini zilo

    mini zilo Proven Member

    783
    9
    Joined Jul 17, 2006
    Chicago, Illinois
    Is there any way to set up DSMLink to control meth injection through using the nitrous control window? I don't plan on using the nitrous control option, so I was wondering if there was any way that I can use it to activate my methanol injection? If so, how would it work?
     

    1K  0

    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    11.904 @ 116.850 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  2. Levi133

    Levi133 Proven Member

    3
    0
    Joined May 19, 2005
    jamaica, New York
    It would work perfectly just make shure u activate it early engouht and set the knock very high because it will turn off and that would be very bad and set it so the only reason it turns off is to low rpm or low throttle position
     

    237  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  3. 1992awdlaser

    1992awdlaser Proven Member

    3,052
    21
    Joined Dec 5, 2004
    Wallace, North Carolina
    Yes it will work. It gets set up the same way as nitrous.
     
  4. 91mitsuman

    91mitsuman Proven Member

    85
    0
    Joined Oct 16, 2005
    Sioux City, Iowa
    Would this route require a progressive controller still or is link acting as the progressive controller?

    Any further information on this subject would be very beneficial. I have dsmlink v3 a devils own meth kit and a snow performance progressive controller. Will I need the controller if I wire it to link? Will I need anything else?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2011
  5. dacowgod

    dacowgod Supporting Vendor

    434
    112
    Joined Feb 3, 2006
    Morgantown, West Virginia
    Ok guys ...I'll do a little run down for you..

    By far the best way to engage Methanol with ECMLink is to first upgrade to V3 Full if you do not have it...

    1. Dial your car in WITHOUT methanol first. Get the tune right w/ Low boost.

    2. Wire up your Methanol pump's relay to engage with the FPS or EGR solenoid wire. (Remember the ECU switches this wire to Ground so you will want to wire this to the ground side of the Relay)

    3. I have found it is best to engage based on Load.. Engagement point will be determined by what kind of turbo you have how efficient your intercooler/fuel is, etc. You need to figure out at which Loadfactor you normally start seeing knock and engage it a few points earlier. Sometimes its a little simpler for people to do it by RPM but Full boost really depends on load, so RPM will change. Its also good to point out that LoadFactor tracks Boost pretty well.

    4. I usually set MPH range from 5-315 ... This makes the Methanol not engage while on Launch control.

    5. Make sure Knock is set from 0 - 20 ... You do not want this to EVER turn off because of too much knock..

    6. I usually deactivate with clutch switch and Rev limit.... to try to prevent backfires.. State change limit of 100ms works fine.

    Now that your Controls are configured you need to go do a pull... You will notice your AFR's are Much richer (if its working properly) than they were before.... This is where V3 full comes in... Go in to the AuxMaps tab and enable secondary fuel adjustments.

    7. Enable Secondary Fuel Adjustments and subtract a % of global fuel to bring your AFR's back down to where they are supposed to be (remember you are adding fuel with meth, so this is basically telling the ECU about it) so it will still run your target AF/R ...Test and Repeat until you are running your expected AF/R

    8. Dont forget to tick the box To tell it when to apply the Secondary Fuel Adjustment (i.e. When Custom FPS is active if you have Meth wired to the FPS)


    That is it if you are engaging with ECMLink......


    BUT now comes the question .. what if you are not engaging with ECMLink...

    I've found it best for your Tunes sake to still inform the ECU that you are adding a secondary fuel source...

    So what you need to do here is wire up a relay to switch to ground when your Fuel pump turns on... Then wire that "switched ground" To your Idle Switch wire. You can then apply the secondary fuel adjustment for the Meth via IdleSw input... so your tune will still line up accordingly with Meth enabled and spraying.... Progressive controllers will cause a lean dip here though so you should watch the tune and maybe play with the delay a little bit as ramp rate is usually pretty quick with progressive controllers for it to matter much...


    If you're still using DSMLink V2 for FPS control... Then you do not get the AuxMaps and Secondary Fuel Adjustment feature... You will be forced to lean it out manually by RPM with the sliders... which will work..I did it for a long time...but it will throw your AFRatioEst right out the window and can cause some odd issues because your engagement point will change based on load...
     

    3K  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.920 @ 133.900 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  6. dacowgod

    dacowgod Supporting Vendor

    434
    112
    Joined Feb 3, 2006
    Morgantown, West Virginia
    ECMLink cannot act as a progressive controller. A progressive controller sprays x% of Meth at y Psi and progressively ramps up to 100% of Meth at Y Psi.. You cannot get this control with Link... however I've found it to be somewhat useless when using ECMLink to control Meth engagement...


    In the past...I've been known to even turn progressive controllers on to 100% and actually engage them with ECMLink ..to basically eliminate the "Progressive feature" ... Keep in mind a progressive controller is nice when you do not have good control of engagement (i.e. just a hobbs switch) ...... But with ECMLink allowing you to control engagement .. theres not much need for a Progressive controller so you can save the $$ and just get a standard Meth kit and throw away the hobbs switch.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014

    3K  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.920 @ 133.900 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  7. 91mitsuman

    91mitsuman Proven Member

    85
    0
    Joined Oct 16, 2005
    Sioux City, Iowa
    So what your saying is I do not need the progressive controller. Thanks for the info that is very helpful.

    Is it just the egr or fps wire we need? Cause I no longer have the solenoids hooked up. Just solder into the harness?
     
  8. dacowgod

    dacowgod Supporting Vendor

    434
    112
    Joined Feb 3, 2006
    Morgantown, West Virginia

    You do not need the Solenoid... Just Solder it into the harness.... Just remember to use a Relay though.. You will blow out the output on the ECU if you attempt to control the pump directly.
     

    3K  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.920 @ 133.900 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  9. 91mitsuman

    91mitsuman Proven Member

    85
    0
    Joined Oct 16, 2005
    Sioux City, Iowa
    Sorry I just keep thinking of more questions. Do I even need the boost pressure switch from the kit or is it taking boost reading from link?
     
  10. dacowgod

    dacowgod Supporting Vendor

    434
    112
    Joined Feb 3, 2006
    Morgantown, West Virginia

    As mentioned before...when using ECMLink to activate your Meth you can throw your Hobbs switch away .... theres no need for it..


    Also as mentioned... You are not going to be engaging Meth via Boost but via LoadFactor.... LoadFactor tracks boost pretty well..but is not similar in value at all... You need to do a pull and see what LoadFactor you normally start seeing knock and activate your methanol a few points before that to quench the knock before it occurs.
     

    3K  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.920 @ 133.900 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    Eclipse5150x likes this.
  11. 91mitsuman

    91mitsuman Proven Member

    85
    0
    Joined Oct 16, 2005
    Sioux City, Iowa
    Ok I think I got it all covered. Thanks again. Ill certainly be using this info in the near future.
     
  12. 99gst_racer

    99gst_racer Moderator

    11,782
    942
    Joined Apr 5, 2003
    Coloma, Michigan
    I have my meth injection triggered exactly how Ricky described above. Load based has been the best method of activation by far. I also agree that this is a far better configuration than just using a progressive controller (I hate voltage based controlers). Here's a screenshot of my EGR solenoid config:
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 7K  67

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    609.8 whp · 541.2 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  13. 19BLACKGST98

    19BLACKGST98 Proven Member

    711
    2
    Joined Nov 6, 2003
    McKinney, Texas
    Thanks for the write up dacowgod and thanks for the screen shot 99gst. I may try to remove my progressive controller tomorrow. Which relay do you use to wire it to the EGR? What I mean is do I need to find one already on the car or do I need to go buy one?

    EDIT: also 99GST why do you leave your knock limit at 11 instead of maxing it out?
     
  14. 99gst_racer

    99gst_racer Moderator

    11,782
    942
    Joined Apr 5, 2003
    Coloma, Michigan
    Use the one that came with your meth injection kit.

    No real reason I suppose, but mostly because I never see more than 2* of knock anyway. I'd never see 11* unless something catastrophic happened, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to turn it up though.
     

    Street Build 7K  67

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    609.8 whp · 541.2 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  15. Devilsown

    Devilsown Proven Member

    176
    4
    Joined Apr 4, 2006
    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
    Problem for most ecu is they can't handle 10amps being drawn threw them so a relay is needed. Relays do not pmw anywhere near the speed the meth injections pump can. So the relay is becomes the limiting factor of how the system will work.

    If your wanting to use the ecu i would get one of our progressive controllers and map a 0-5v output and use our controller to do the pwm work. Then set the controllers 2 knobs to there min and max adjusment range and you can then adjust the voltage output of the ecu to get you the range you want.
     
    jamel16 likes this.
  16. 99gst_racer

    99gst_racer Moderator

    11,782
    942
    Joined Apr 5, 2003
    Coloma, Michigan
    What's "pmw"?

    Also, if a person is concerned with a given delay, couldn't the system simply be set to trigger a bit sooner to account for it?

    I just checked my datalog from my most recent dyno pull, and I have exactly .238 seconds of delay between when my relay triggers and when the IAT sensor registers the methanol. Not too shabby IMO.
     

    Street Build 7K  67

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    609.8 whp · 541.2 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  17. Devilsown

    Devilsown Proven Member

    176
    4
    Joined Apr 4, 2006
    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
    No you can't Pulse width modulate threw a relay. Or really you can but you have to really turn the pwm down. If your going to use a relay you can only set them up to be pretty much an on/off setup and will function like a stage 1 kit. There is no progression. And progression really makes or breaks a good setup.


    Our controller pulses the pump at 30 hz. To keep it simple lets say its applying power and removing it 30 times in 1 second. Bosh type Relays just can't turn on and off anywhere near that. Turning it on/off 5 times in 1 second is not even going to happen. Since it reacts so slow it will usually be "clamped" open even during an off cycle.
     
  18. 99gst_racer

    99gst_racer Moderator

    11,782
    942
    Joined Apr 5, 2003
    Coloma, Michigan
    Thanks for clearing up what "pwm" is.


    I guess I'm one of the KIS guys when it comes to meth injection, and I've had superb results with a simple ECMlink/relay activated on/off configuration.
     

    Street Build 7K  67

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    609.8 whp · 541.2 lb/ft · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  19. kickasskid2087

    kickasskid2087 Proven Member

    267
    55
    Joined Apr 10, 2008
    Festus, Missouri
    Interested in using this method. Any diagrams or examples of how you wired the pump through the relay.
     
  20. turboglenn

    turboglenn Proven Member

    6,379
    101
    Joined Nov 5, 2007
    RIpley, West Virginia
    Just google wiring an automotive relay. Just remember that your output wire from the ECU is pulling t ground so you'll take the main "power in" and put a jumper from it to one of the activation terminals of the relay and hook your EGR/FPS wire to the other activation terminal so it grounds the circuit completing it and activating the relay to put power to the pump.

    Also, I've tested water/meth in many ways and in many volumes, and even running an M7 and M10 nozzle (devils own brand) i didn't need a progressive controller, just activate it when the boost/or load levels are high enough for a safe pump gas tune. I usually would have mine kick on at 12-14psi and over 3500RPM

    read up on water injection on the Wiki or othr google results, the biggest issue you'l face is figuring out wether you;ll benefit more from a mixture thAt's more water/less alky or more alky/less water...personally I like about 70% methanol and 30% water (use distillled only unless u want clogged alky misters/jets)

    If it weren't for e85 i'd be all over the water injection still (and its still installed and wired to an output on the ECU for when i have to flip the ECU to the pump gas map when i'm out of town and can't get ethanol) I just have the output disabled until i need it, lucky i usually take an old laptop when i go on long trips in case i have to make changes or troubleshoot something far from home
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014
  21. lou schmouder

    lou schmouder Proven Member

    271
    0
    Joined Jun 17, 2008
    dalton, Georgia
    More info on wiring up the relay please
     
  22. blaise2gst

    blaise2gst Proven Member

    54
    0
    Joined May 25, 2005
    stephenson, Virginia
    According to dsmlink wiki nitrous control you hookup Ecu output (egr fps) to pin 86 on the relay..
    Run switched power to pin 85 and 30 on the relay. Would you jump pin to pin here?
    Run pin 87 to solenoid this would be the pump in our case is this correct? Also would u put a fuse on the power supply? For some reason I thought this was pulled from the battery?
     
  23. NewTurboTuner

    NewTurboTuner Proven Member

    535
    20
    Joined Jul 21, 2006
    Rslv, Arkansas
    Perfect!

    Great info guys, Thanks!
     

    1K  6

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    automatic · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    Compound1g likes this.
  24. Daiboro

    Daiboro Proven Member

    45
    0
    Joined Mar 24, 2012
    el paso, Texas
    Any of you guys know what would be the kit most compatible with dsmlink? Devil's own or AEM? or is there another... and anyone has an image of a diagram for this set up?
     

    435  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  25. bradselph

    bradselph Supporting VIP

    918
    6
    Joined Jun 14, 2010
    sebring, Florida
    I used the snow performance stage 1 kit install just like dacowgod saids in this thread.

    Just read up some here.
     

    1K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.777 @ 137.200 · 2G DSM
    Loading...

Share This Page

Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Feal Suspension Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications OHM Racing Raven Fabrication RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing SouthBay Fuel Injectors STM Tuned Track Decals Track Sculptures VR Speed Factory