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DSMLink nitrous controls + meth injection

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mini zilo

15+ Year Contributor
783
16
Jul 17, 2006
Chicago, Illinois
Is there any way to set up DSMLink to control meth injection through using the nitrous control window? I don't plan on using the nitrous control option, so I was wondering if there was any way that I can use it to activate my methanol injection? If so, how would it work?
 
It would work perfectly just make shure u activate it early engouht and set the knock very high because it will turn off and that would be very bad and set it so the only reason it turns off is to low rpm or low throttle position
 
Yes it will work. It gets set up the same way as nitrous.
 
Would this route require a progressive controller still or is link acting as the progressive controller?

Any further information on this subject would be very beneficial. I have dsmlink v3 a devils own meth kit and a snow performance progressive controller. Will I need the controller if I wire it to link? Will I need anything else?
 
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Ok guys ...I'll do a little run down for you..

By far the best way to engage Methanol with ECMLink is to first upgrade to V3 Full if you do not have it...

1. Dial your car in WITHOUT methanol first. Get the tune right w/ Low boost.

2. Wire up your Methanol pump's relay to engage with the FPS or EGR solenoid wire. (Remember the ECU switches this wire to Ground so you will want to wire this to the ground side of the Relay)

3. I have found it is best to engage based on Load.. Engagement point will be determined by what kind of turbo you have how efficient your intercooler/fuel is, etc. You need to figure out at which Loadfactor you normally start seeing knock and engage it a few points earlier. Sometimes its a little simpler for people to do it by RPM but Full boost really depends on load, so RPM will change. Its also good to point out that LoadFactor tracks Boost pretty well.

4. I usually set MPH range from 5-315 ... This makes the Methanol not engage while on Launch control.

5. Make sure Knock is set from 0 - 20 ... You do not want this to EVER turn off because of too much knock..

6. I usually deactivate with clutch switch and Rev limit.... to try to prevent backfires.. State change limit of 100ms works fine.

Now that your Controls are configured you need to go do a pull... You will notice your AFR's are Much richer (if its working properly) than they were before.... This is where V3 full comes in... Go in to the AuxMaps tab and enable secondary fuel adjustments.

7. Enable Secondary Fuel Adjustments and subtract a % of global fuel to bring your AFR's back down to where they are supposed to be (remember you are adding fuel with meth, so this is basically telling the ECU about it) so it will still run your target AF/R ...Test and Repeat until you are running your expected AF/R

8. Dont forget to tick the box To tell it when to apply the Secondary Fuel Adjustment (i.e. When Custom FPS is active if you have Meth wired to the FPS)


That is it if you are engaging with ECMLink......


BUT now comes the question .. what if you are not engaging with ECMLink...

I've found it best for your Tunes sake to still inform the ECU that you are adding a secondary fuel source...

So what you need to do here is wire up a relay to switch to ground when your Fuel pump turns on... Then wire that "switched ground" To your Idle Switch wire. You can then apply the secondary fuel adjustment for the Meth via IdleSw input... so your tune will still line up accordingly with Meth enabled and spraying.... Progressive controllers will cause a lean dip here though so you should watch the tune and maybe play with the delay a little bit as ramp rate is usually pretty quick with progressive controllers for it to matter much...


If you're still using DSMLink V2 for FPS control... Then you do not get the AuxMaps and Secondary Fuel Adjustment feature... You will be forced to lean it out manually by RPM with the sliders... which will work..I did it for a long time...but it will throw your AFRatioEst right out the window and can cause some odd issues because your engagement point will change based on load...
 
Would this route require a progressive controller still or is link acting as the progressive controller?

ECMLink cannot act as a progressive controller. A progressive controller sprays x% of Meth at y Psi and progressively ramps up to 100% of Meth at Y Psi.. You cannot get this control with Link... however I've found it to be somewhat useless when using ECMLink to control Meth engagement...


In the past...I've been known to even turn progressive controllers on to 100% and actually engage them with ECMLink ..to basically eliminate the "Progressive feature" ... Keep in mind a progressive controller is nice when you do not have good control of engagement (i.e. just a hobbs switch) ...... But with ECMLink allowing you to control engagement .. theres not much need for a Progressive controller so you can save the $$ and just get a standard Meth kit and throw away the hobbs switch.
 
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So what your saying is I do not need the progressive controller. Thanks for the info that is very helpful.

Is it just the egr or fps wire we need? Cause I no longer have the solenoids hooked up. Just solder into the harness?
 
Is it just the egr or fps wire we need? Cause I no longer have the solenoids hooked up. Just solder into the harness?


You do not need the Solenoid... Just Solder it into the harness.... Just remember to use a Relay though.. You will blow out the output on the ECU if you attempt to control the pump directly.
 
Sorry I just keep thinking of more questions. Do I even need the boost pressure switch from the kit or is it taking boost reading from link?
 
Sorry I just keep thinking of more questions. Do I even need the boost pressure switch from the kit or is it taking boost reading from link?


As mentioned before...when using ECMLink to activate your Meth you can throw your Hobbs switch away .... theres no need for it..


Also as mentioned... You are not going to be engaging Meth via Boost but via LoadFactor.... LoadFactor tracks boost pretty well..but is not similar in value at all... You need to do a pull and see what LoadFactor you normally start seeing knock and activate your methanol a few points before that to quench the knock before it occurs.
 
Ok I think I got it all covered. Thanks again. Ill certainly be using this info in the near future.
 
I have my meth injection triggered exactly how Ricky described above. Load based has been the best method of activation by far. I also agree that this is a far better configuration than just using a progressive controller (I hate voltage based controlers). Here's a screenshot of my EGR solenoid config:
 

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Thanks for the write up dacowgod and thanks for the screen shot 99gst. I may try to remove my progressive controller tomorrow. Which relay do you use to wire it to the EGR? What I mean is do I need to find one already on the car or do I need to go buy one?

EDIT: also 99GST why do you leave your knock limit at 11 instead of maxing it out?
 
Which relay do you use to wire it to the EGR? What I mean is do I need to find one already on the car or do I need to go buy one?
Use the one that came with your meth injection kit.

EDIT: also 99GST why do you leave your knock limit at 11 instead of maxing it out?
No real reason I suppose, but mostly because I never see more than 2* of knock anyway. I'd never see 11* unless something catastrophic happened, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to turn it up though.
 
Problem for most ecu is they can't handle 10amps being drawn threw them so a relay is needed. Relays do not pmw anywhere near the speed the meth injections pump can. So the relay is becomes the limiting factor of how the system will work.

If your wanting to use the ecu i would get one of our progressive controllers and map a 0-5v output and use our controller to do the pwm work. Then set the controllers 2 knobs to there min and max adjusment range and you can then adjust the voltage output of the ecu to get you the range you want.
 
Problem for most ecu is they can't handle 10amps being drawn threw them so a relay is needed. Relays do not pmw anywhere near the speed the meth injections pump can. So the relay is becomes the limiting factor of how the system will work.
What's "pmw"?

Also, if a person is concerned with a given delay, couldn't the system simply be set to trigger a bit sooner to account for it?

I just checked my datalog from my most recent dyno pull, and I have exactly .238 seconds of delay between when my relay triggers and when the IAT sensor registers the methanol. Not too shabby IMO.
 
No you can't Pulse width modulate threw a relay. Or really you can but you have to really turn the pwm down. If your going to use a relay you can only set them up to be pretty much an on/off setup and will function like a stage 1 kit. There is no progression. And progression really makes or breaks a good setup.


Our controller pulses the pump at 30 hz. To keep it simple lets say its applying power and removing it 30 times in 1 second. Bosh type Relays just can't turn on and off anywhere near that. Turning it on/off 5 times in 1 second is not even going to happen. Since it reacts so slow it will usually be "clamped" open even during an off cycle.
 
Interested in using this method. Any diagrams or examples of how you wired the pump through the relay.
 
Just google wiring an automotive relay. Just remember that your output wire from the ECU is pulling t ground so you'll take the main "power in" and put a jumper from it to one of the activation terminals of the relay and hook your EGR/FPS wire to the other activation terminal so it grounds the circuit completing it and activating the relay to put power to the pump.

Also, I've tested water/meth in many ways and in many volumes, and even running an M7 and M10 nozzle (devils own brand) i didn't need a progressive controller, just activate it when the boost/or load levels are high enough for a safe pump gas tune. I usually would have mine kick on at 12-14psi and over 3500RPM

read up on water injection on the Wiki or othr google results, the biggest issue you'l face is figuring out wether you;ll benefit more from a mixture thAt's more water/less alky or more alky/less water...personally I like about 70% methanol and 30% water (use distillled only unless u want clogged alky misters/jets)

If it weren't for e85 i'd be all over the water injection still (and its still installed and wired to an output on the ECU for when i have to flip the ECU to the pump gas map when i'm out of town and can't get ethanol) I just have the output disabled until i need it, lucky i usually take an old laptop when i go on long trips in case i have to make changes or troubleshoot something far from home
 
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According to dsmlink wiki nitrous control you hookup Ecu output (egr fps) to pin 86 on the relay..
Run switched power to pin 85 and 30 on the relay. Would you jump pin to pin here?
Run pin 87 to solenoid this would be the pump in our case is this correct? Also would u put a fuse on the power supply? For some reason I thought this was pulled from the battery?
 
Any of you guys know what would be the kit most compatible with dsmlink? Devil's own or AEM? or is there another... and anyone has an image of a diagram for this set up?
 
I used the snow performance stage 1 kit install just like dacowgod saids in this thread.

Just read up some here.
 
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