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Water injection + Nitrous...

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squeak10686

15+ Year Contributor
360
1
Jul 18, 2004
omaha, Nebraska
Hey guys Im running a 16g turbo that im going to have the psi set at 18 psi... and going to run a 75 wet shot... here is what we are thinking will make this super safe to run it...

1. we will be using a water injection system to keep the heat down and keep the detonation away ( knocking)...

2. I will be running race gas when doign this to further keep it safe...

Here are the list of mods i will have done by then, what kind of whp do you think i could make out of it, and what kind of times do you think i could run this setup....

1. 3 turbo back exhauast
2. dejon tool intake
3. ( all the fuel mods including emanage Injectors AFPR and fuel pump)
4. Southbend clutch
5. Boost controller
6. 75 wet kit
7. aquamist water injection system
8. some race gas...

and im sure i forgot a couple of the mods...

if you have any idea on any of this stuff that would be great
thanks... + what size injectors do you think would be needed...
 
squeak10686 said:
1. we will be using a water injection system to keep the heat down and keep the detonation away ( knocking)...

That's what tuning is for. Instead of trying to bandaid a problem, get it fixed first and move on. Only when you maxed your tuning capacity, should you seek other means of detonation suppression. My $0.02.

BTW, I'd set the boost down to ~12psi first and try a full nitrous run. You might creep upwards of 18-20psi with the nitrous. So be careful with that. No water injection in the world would save you from boost creep. ;)
 
Dont see why you'd use no2 w/ a 16g :dunno: I'm only using it to help spool the t4 i have. Just started putting it together but will either go w/ a 50 or 75 shot.
 
You use nitrous with a small turbo if you plan on spraying all the way through the power band. To use nitrous just to spool a turbo is a WASTE in my opinion. If you are going to spray, grab your balls, be a man, and spray all the way through the gear.

As far as using water injection, it is merely a bandaid for poor tuning. If you can't get a 16g to run right without water injection, then perhaps you should start to seek another hobby. You are putting together a recipe for overkill, especially since the nitrous is going to cool the charge tremendously on it's own. Until you start to try and run big boost on a big turbo on pump gas, I would skip over the hassle of water injection.

Regards,
 
I'll have no problem i dont think tuning, i just thought it would ALWAYS be better safe than sorry... with all this being done what kind of times do you think ill be able to push out of my car????
 
Hey um call med dumb, but whats water injection? ive heard the term and havent really figured it out yet!.....
 
I'd start with something smaller than a 75 shot... start w/ a 30, make sure everything is safe, then step up to a 50, if it's all safe there MAYBE a little more. Keep in mind on a turbo car a 30 shot will add more than 30hp.
 
Water or alcohol injection is not a bandaid for tuning, well.. not always. A lot of people locally use it as a safeguard for running high boost on pump gas. It works very well.

Also in regards to the nitrous, set the boost lower at first, and use the WOT switch to trigger the nitrous. Watch your boost gauge.
 
I hear a certain group of people always saying how Water Injection is a bandaid for a problem or bad tuning. From all the information I've read it makes some..but little sense.

Water injection lowers intake temperatures as well as other cleaning and other benefits. This reduces knock as a result. Even if your not knocking..reducing your intake temps is always something you'd want.

Using water injection to keep the temp down is hardly a subsitute for bad tuning. He did specify that it would be used to lower intake temps thus reducing chances of knock.

Sure..it can be used to substitute for good tuning. I just find it bothersome that everytime someone mentions it people start going right away about how its just a bandaid for greater problems or poor tuning. It can be used to compliment a smaller IC or further reduce temps along side a good size FMIC as water injection wil also work on demand and the car does not need to me in motion to provide good cooling.

I don't think Water injection is something you only get once you've maxed out your tuning on your set up. I see no reason why you can't tune a set up starting with it as you would with anything else because there is no doubt it will only aid your performance. To me it seems like saying you need to max out your tuning on the stock smic before going to a fmic because otherwise its just a bandaid for bad tuning or greater problems. IMO
 
Water injection is a system of injecting atomized water into the intake.

The water turns into a gas thus absorbing a lot of heat. This lowers the temperture of the air in the combustion chamber. It has the benefit of lowering intake air temp, reducing knock, and effectivly steam cleaning the inside of your engine(no more carbon building up). It can be used in place of or along side an intercooler. Its not exactly a main stream
system but it has been used in hot rods since my dad was working on them.
 
Ugghh. Do you guys read any of the posts before replying to them? He is referring to a 16g with a wet kit on it. You ain't gonna cool the charge ANY more with water injection if you are on the spray.

As far as it being helpful trying to run big boost on pump gas, yes, you are correct, but he's talking about a 16g for crissake, not trying to run 25 pounds on a 60-1 here. I am willing to bet that the car does not pick up ANY power at ALL on the water injection. Not one horsepower.

I have a fair bit of knowledge on the subject I like to think. When I was dynoing David Boggs's Supercharged Viper, we tried it with the water injection and it picked up next to nothing. We tried with alcohol (washer fluid) and it still picked up nothing. If the car was detonating and we used the water injection, it would have picked up power. If the car was detonating, it would have been due to bad tuning, therefore making the water injection a band-aid for said bad tuning. 880rwhp and not a pony more on the water.

Until you guys step up into the realm where you actually NEED hardcore shit, spend your time and money doing things the right way instead of looking for bandaids. FYI, I didn't see a front mount intercooler anywhere in that list up there..

Regards,
 
hmm, i always thought water going into your intake was a bad thing :| thats why the N/a with cool air guys have those by pas filter things half way up? :confused:
 
too much water in the intake is bad, but w/ water injection you are only injecting a fine spray, which atomizes almost instantly anyway
 
What size cc injectors was the viper running as well as how many cc of water were being injected?

I do agree with NOSlaser on the fact that you can't really cool the intake temp any more than nitrous is able to. Nitrous I believe is injected at -176* F.

I do however believe water injection would be much more benefical on a 16g then a 60-1 running high boost. Say they are both running 20 psi, the 16g is producing more heat compressing that air than that 60-1 is. The waterinjection would lower the intake temps much more drastically on the 16g then the 60-1.

To me water injection is far from a band-aid for street run cars if set-up correctly (not including nitrous cars). There is no downside to Water injection. It lowers intake temps, steam cleans internal parts, increases gas milage, and allows for higher boost on pump gas.
 
Stock injectors, additional injector setup (4 extra) and water injection kits aren't measured in cc's, they have jet sizes just like a nitrous kit. You don't ask "so, how many cc's of nitrous are you running?"

Hey, by all means, put water injection on your 16g car. It's your waste of money, not mine. :thumb:

Regards,
 
so can sumone now tell me how the kit works and were you can buy then, im not really interested i just would like to know for a knowledge aspect!
 
NosLaser said:
Ugghh. Do you guys read any of the posts before replying to them? He is referring to a 16g with a wet kit on it. You ain't gonna cool the charge ANY more with water injection if you are on the spray.

As far as it being helpful trying to run big boost on pump gas, yes, you are correct, but he's talking about a 16g for crissake, not trying to run 25 pounds on a 60-1 here. I am willing to bet that the car does not pick up ANY power at ALL on the water injection. Not one horsepower.

I have a fair bit of knowledge on the subject I like to think. When I was dynoing David Boggs's Supercharged Viper, we tried it with the water injection and it picked up next to nothing. We tried with alcohol (washer fluid) and it still picked up nothing. If the car was detonating and we used the water injection, it would have picked up power. If the car was detonating, it would have been due to bad tuning, therefore making the water injection a band-aid for said bad tuning. 880rwhp and not a pony more on the water.

Until you guys step up into the realm where you actually NEED hardcore shit, spend your time and money doing things the right way instead of looking for bandaids. FYI, I didn't see a front mount intercooler anywhere in that list up there..

Regards,

Its funny that you said that. I am running 25psi on my 60-1 with 7.5:1 compression and I am about to put a 80shot direct port in my forrester. And have been thinking about doing an aquamist kit at the same time. Whats your opinion on that
 
If you are going to attempt to run 25 pounds of boost on PUMP gas, then the water injection would definately help you. If you plan on running nitrous as well, the water injection will become a waste of time and money.

Regards,
 
No, I AM running 25psi on 93octane. I have 7.5:1 compression. But I have butt tuned the car and have no knock except for hot days. I have a wideband on the way to finish tuning it before nitrous. But the car is daily driven and I would not be driving around with the nitrous, so I would want the aquamist kit to help with everytime other then at the track. Do you still think the aquamist kit is still a waste.
matt
 
Chuck_3 said:
yeah its ooold technology

So are turbos, and Otto cycle internal combustion engines. Yet, you don't hear people complaining about those...
 
Gigaah said:
I hear a certain group of people always saying how Water Injection is a bandaid for a problem or bad tuning. From all the information I've read it makes some..but little sense.

Water injection lowers intake temperatures as well as other cleaning and other benefits. This reduces knock as a result. Even if your not knocking..reducing your intake temps is always something you'd want.

Using water injection to keep the temp down is hardly a subsitute for bad tuning. He did specify that it would be used to lower intake temps thus reducing chances of knock.

Sure..it can be used to substitute for good tuning. I just find it bothersome that everytime someone mentions it people start going right away about how its just a bandaid for greater problems or poor tuning. It can be used to compliment a smaller IC or further reduce temps along side a good size FMIC as water injection wil also work on demand and the car does not need to me in motion to provide good cooling.

I don't think Water injection is something you only get once you've maxed out your tuning on your set up. I see no reason why you can't tune a set up starting with it as you would with anything else because there is no doubt it will only aid your performance. To me it seems like saying you need to max out your tuning on the stock smic before going to a fmic because otherwise its just a bandaid for bad tuning or greater problems. IMO


Great post! I agree with you completely.
 
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