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2G Did someone motor swap this 95 Talon tsi? 6 bolt block with 2g oil pump cover and oil pan?

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3kgtaddict

Probationary Member
21
5
Apr 27, 2020
Albuquerque, New_Mexico
Everything I’m finding is mentioning the vfaq and based solely off of the lump under the crank pulley it’s definitely a “7 bolt” . I think this motor has been swapped though. I followed the page showing how to swap a “1g into a 2g” although it doesn’t look like the holes in the instructions have been drilled

Based on the images from stmtuned.com , however, it looks like I have a 1g water pump.

Also read somewhere that the 6 bolt block doesn’t line Up with the shape of the trans bell housing in the front of the motor, kind of under/behind the turbo. And the 7 bolt block curves with the circular shape of the bell housing . Mine does not curve, it goes straight up and there’s a cut out where I can see a section of the back(engine-side) of the flywheel (where I assume a cover should go) which again points to mine being a 1g or 6bolt block.

My engine code stamp on the front of the block says

4G63
QH4885

It’s on the front under/behind the sort of like where the Hondas have their “D15Y7” engine stamp for example )

I’ve found a list of EVO motors but “QH” isn’t in the list, can’t find that list for DSM motors either.

Last clue is my cam angle sensor. It’s The big circular green one on the passenger side of the head. (Not the little sensor behind the cam gear on the timing belt side)… so I’m leaning towards thinking it’s also a 1g/6 bolt head.

I’ll add some pictures when I go put my lifters and rocker arms back in tomorrow .

Hopefully someone can help me figure this out because i need to figure out if I need a crank sensor and other misc parts and which engine to order them for!!!

There’s got to be a way without pulling the trans and counting the bolts right?!?

Thanks everyone!!
 
Why don't yiu just look at the oil pan. The flange is either flat or it isn't. 6 vs 7 bolt. Ignore that rre page. Nobody does it like that.
 
Why don't yiu just look at the oil pan. The flange is either flat or it isn't. 6 vs 7 bolt. Ignore that rre page. Nobody does it like that.

I think the confusion is that he has the lump on the oil pan which makes it a 7 bolt but he's also got a 1g CAS, 1g water pump, and the block/trans don't line up in one area which are all the signs of a 1g engine in a 2g

If there are no holes drilled in the pump and someone didn't modify a 2g oil pump/front cover to fit the 1g then someone swapped a 1g 7 bolt motor into a 2g car.

Generally people swap the 1g 6 bolt due to concerns with 7 bolts crank walking but due to cost or not being able to find a 6 bolt or possibly someone assuming all 1g's are 6 bolts (which is a common misconception) it sounds like you have a 7 bolt 1g engine in your 2g car.
 
Sounds as if someone indeed put a 1g 7 bolt in it. I believe you’re causing yourself confusion as a 1g 7 bolt really shares more in common with a 6 bolt than a 2g 7 bolt and in thinking some of the differences are 6 bolt vs 7 bolt when they’re actually 1g vs 2g. A fine example here is the 1g 7 bolt shares the same head as the 6 bolt engine aside from the head bolt holes being bored smaller on the 1g 7 bolt head along with the 1g 7 bolt head having the larger exhaust manifold studs in the bottom corners, aside from that no difference in what would be found on a 6 bolt engine. Same with the water pump, the 1g 7 bolt does indeed share the same water pump as the 6 bolt amongst other things.

With that being said, it’s sounding more and more as if someone installed a 1g 7 bolt in it as the process is essentially the same as 6 bolt swapping a 2g as mentioned above.
 
I think the confusion is that he has the lump on the oil pan which makes it a 7 bolt but he's also got a 1g CAS, 1g water pump, and the block/trans don't line up in one area which are all the signs of a 1g engine in a 2g

If there are no holes drilled in the pump and someone didn't modify a 2g oil pump/front cover to fit the 1g then someone swapped a 1g 7 bolt motor into a 2g car.

Generally people swap the 1g 6 bolt due to concerns with 7 bolts crank walking but due to cost or not being able to find a 6 bolt or possibly someone assuming all 1g's are 6 bolts (which is a common misconception) it sounds like you have a 7 bolt 1g engine in your 2g car.
Hey thanks for the reply that’s exactly where I’m getting confused! Now that you mention it I remember someone telling me about the 1g 7bolt saying they are the more desirable one ? I’m guessing that’s wrong if they are also susceptible to crank walk. Mine is an early 95 and from what that person was saying is that’s the year they switched engines and these round body 2g’s came with those 1g 7 bolts in them but that didn’t sound right either.

I was stuck on the idea that I’d have to pull the oil pump cover and drill/tap the holes following the online instructions from
(http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2g6boltmotorinstall.htm)
but then found the magnus method
( https://magnusmotorsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/1gina2g.pdf)
Which explains you No longer need to drill/tap the oil pump cover and you can give the ecu the crank and cam sensor from just the 1g cam sensor on the head. So is it still possible that it’s a 1g 6 bolt if my oil pump cover is not drilled? Do the 1g 7bolts also have the block/bell housing gap?

I have 2 bent exhaust valves and I don’t know which motor to order parts for! Actually I’ve had a really hard time ordering parts this whole time not knowing what motor i have 😂🤦‍♂️
 
Do the 1g 7bolts also have the block/bell housing gap?
Yes. A 1G 7-bolt block shape on the transmission side looks like a 1G 6-bolt. But the oil pan and oil pump hump look like a 2G.

I'll agree with what has been said, it sounds like a 1G 7-bolt engine. The process of installing one of these in a 2G is practically the same as installing a 6-bolt engine on a 2G, hence why the Magnus article is correctly titled, "1G engine in a 2G".
 
Sounds as if someone indeed put a 1g 7 bolt in it. I believe you’re causing yourself confusion as a 1g 7 bolt really shares more in common with a 6 bolt than a 2g 7 bolt and in thinking some of the differences are 6 bolt vs 7 bolt when they’re actually 1g vs 2g. A fine example here is the 1g 7 bolt shares the same head as the 6 bolt engine aside from the head bolt holes being bored smaller on the 1g 7 bolt head along with the 1g 7 bolt head having the larger exhaust manifold studs in the bottom corners, aside from that no difference in what would be found on a 6 bolt engine. Same with the water pump, the 1g 7 bolt does indeed share the same water pump as the 6 bolt amongst other things.

With that being said, it’s sounding more and more as if someone installed a 1g 7 bolt in it as the process is essentially the same as 6 bolt swapping a 2g as mentioned above.got to be
Sounds as if someone indeed put a 1g 7 bolt in it. I believe you’re causing yourself confusion as a 1g 7 bolt really shares more in common with a 6 bolt than a 2g 7 bolt and in thinking some of the differences are 6 bolt vs 7 bolt when they’re actually 1g vs 2g. A fine example here is the 1g 7 bolt shares the same head as the 6 bolt engine aside from the head bolt holes being bored smaller on the 1g 7 bolt head along with the 1g 7 bolt head having the larger exhaust manifold studs in the bottom corners, aside from that no difference in what would be found on a 6 bolt engine. Same with the water pump, the 1g 7 bolt does indeed share the same water pump as the 6 bolt amongst other things.

With that being said, it’s sounding more and more as if someone installed a 1g 7 bolt in it as the process is essentially the same as 6 bolt swapping a 2g as mentioned above.
Thank you I definitely have the bigger studs on the bottom corners of the exhaust manifold and the water pump so I guess it’s safe to say its a 1g 7 bolt. Are they still susceptible to crank walk or is that only 2g 7 bolt? Also Do I need to alter the cam sensor wiring in any way like in the magnus method ?
 
As I understand it. No the 1G 7 bolt isn't as susceptible to crank walk as the early 2g's.

Yes, you still need to deal with the CAS issues and everything that comes with it like random misfires.
Thank you so much I’ve been trying to figure this thing out for years and was about to give up for the fifth time 😂
 
Thank you I definitely have the bigger studs on the bottom corners of the exhaust manifold and the water pump so I guess it’s safe to say its a 1g 7 bolt. Are they still susceptible to crank walk or is that only 2g 7 bolt? Also Do I need to alter the cam sensor wiring in any way like in the magnus method ?

AFAIK Nobody ever figured out 100% why 2g 7 bolts are more likely to crankwalk. Magnus did a really good write up years ago and they believed it is the 2g oil squirters which caused the issue. Others have come up with theories about the 2g clutch set-up causing it but I'm not sure how much water that theory holds.

In any case I would recommend you bypass the clutch switch so you can start the car without the clutch depressed. That will keep the load off the thrust bearing when no oil is flowing at start up. It can only help the engine to do this with no ill effects..........(Altho it could hurt your wallet if you try to start in gear and drive thru your garage door)
 
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