Altered Mental Status (1G AWD 5spd)

[CrackedDSM]

Car will not idle for some reason, no matter what I do. I need to finish wiring the gauges, but I can't really figure out why at first glance. Car's not gonna drive anyway, because the clutch won't disengage. I'll try bleeding it later but honestly, don't have high hopes. This car sat for so long and was so neglected I don't know if two more years worth of hard work will make it run.

Anyway, here's a log of my attempts to make it idle.

Disclaimer: Nothing has really been set except for global fuel, and deadtimes. So the tune is virgin. So if there's weird settings, don't blame me. Just call it out and tell me what to do. It was previously setup for SD.

Anyway, lemme know what you find/what you can fix. For now I'm gonna just enjoy my day.


Edit: Added a second log where I fixed the TPS. It'll rev...kinda. It still will not idle on its own, and there's a definitely delay in throttle response.

 

[CrackedDSM]

On a better note: I found my oil leak. Pinhole from rust in the oil filter. So tomorrow's agenda is to swap the oil filter, wire up the gauges, fill it with coolant/fix any coolant leaks, then bust my butt trying to get this freakin' thing to idle.


If I have to, I can wire in the MAP and IAT sensor and switch to SD(as in, in case the MAF is dead) but I really don't wanna do that. Lol.

 

[Stapl3]

Adjust the throttle stop on the TB 1 full turn clockwise away from fully closed so the plate is cracked open. Then adjust the TPS so it shows .63v.

The BISS should be 2 full turns from fully bottomed out, but that's a pretty loose rule of thumb.

Zero out the fuel sliders.

Lock the ECU in openloop for now.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Adjust the throttle stop on the TB 1 full turn clockwise away from fully closed so the plate is cracked open. Then adjust the TPS so it shows .63v.

The BISS should be 2 full turns from fully bottomed out, but that's a pretty loose rule of thumb.

Zero out the fuel sliders.

Lock the ECU in openloop for now.

Thank you my friend. It’s a 0 mile throttle body so I’m gonna assume it’s 100% not adjusted right.

Also, I’m beginning to be worried about either the tps or the wiring. When I was messing with it before it seems like it’s intermittent. I confess to not checking the voltage though, only the input/%. Gonna 100% do that. Also talking with Scott Laird and he gave me some pointers too.


I’m moving the goal posts here and say object of my vacation is to just get it idling and purring on its own. Then we can figure out why the clutch isn’t disengaging while running. P.O. Did warn me “clutch might need to be bled, and the pedal may need to be welded” but we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Adjust the throttle stop on the TB 1 full turn clockwise away from fully closed so the plate is cracked open. Then adjust the TPS so it shows .63v.

The BISS should be 2 full turns from fully bottomed out, but that's a pretty loose rule of thumb.

Zero out the fuel sliders.

Lock the ECU in openloop for now.

This fixed it. FTMFW.


It idles on its own now, and the throttle actually responds to input! Both the TPS and the throttle stop were basically set as far 0/loose as they could be. So it idles and is good now. There is a "but" here.

BUT, there's a problem with this crusty plug. TPS voltage will randomly drop to 0 and that's when it starts to idle weird again. But when TPS voltage is good, it idles right where I set it in ECMLink as a test. I did forget to do two things though. 1) I forgot to zero out the fuel sliders. I keep forgetting because I didn't mess with them originally, Lol, oops.
2) I forgot to lock it in openloop.


But man. Thank you so much @Stapl3 . I'm attaching another very short log of it idling on its own so whomever can pick through it and judge the hell out of me. But for now...absolute victory! Yay!



Appreciate everyone.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Well, shit. I’m sick so all progress has halted. I knew it would happen though. I always get sick on any extended days off I have. I was really hoping this time would be different. Alas.


I’ll rest up and keep plodding along on my every other weekend off. It’s honestly not much to go from here. I’m happy it idles on its own now. Much easier solve than I was expecting.

 

[Dericsh]

Bummer being sick on off days. Get well soon!

 

[CrackedDSM]

Doing some work today fellas. I just wanted to stop and upload this picture for @Justin DuBois sake.

BOV is fully recirculated. Hope your headache has gone away now.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Alright. So, finally feel human again so I decided to do some work on the ol' PITA. First up was to seal off the coolant system. I deleted the FIAV and the turbo coolant lines(previous owner did this, I'm just too lazy to undo it), so I needed to loop those sections of the t-stat housing and heater hose. Got some hose and some clamps already, so that took all of 5 seconds. I ended up noticing the clamp on the upper rad hose was broken or at least almost there, so I went to autozone and grabbed some. While I was there, thought to look through their universal hose section, and to my delight they had up to 1" and 1 1/4" inch hose. So I grabbed some, the appropriate clamps, and one of those awesome "no spill" funnels that you clamp onto the t-stat housing(or radiator depending on application), and fill it with coolant and just let the engine take what it needs.

Once that was done, headed back and got to work. First thing, was what I posted above. I fit the new recirc hose to the BOV and intake pipe, and tightened her up. That ain't going anywhere. And it'll make Justin(and the ECU) happy that it's no longer losing metered air.

From here, got all the clamps and lines double checked for the cooling system and tightened up. Filled it with a couple gallons of water(only to test leaks and get it up to temp, real coolant will go in after it's leak-free), and started it. That's where it started to fight me a little...as is expected. Poor thing is feral at this point from lack of human interaction, so she constantly bites me when I try to love her. But she'll come around eventually.

So before I started it up, I decided to wire up the wideband and the other gauges. That went pretty uneventful, and they worked first try. Go to start it up....bam. It fires right up. But, AFRs are like 16.5-17.1 at idle. Eeesh. No wonder it's all weird. Grab my laptop, hook up to ECMLink and start to make changes...noticed my TPS isn't working again, or at best is intermittent, so I mess with the plug and try again. No start this time. It sputters and tries, but just gives up. Sigh.


After messing with it for way too long, realized that somehow injector #4's clip came loose. Not all the way off, but loose enough to need to be clicked back down. So I remedied that, and voila! It started again...however now there's a new problem.


Idle surge! Idle surge all day, and the TPS still refuses to play ball. And it's still lean AF. I'm hooked up to ECMLink now, and start adjusting global fuel, dead times, and even the fuel sliders from 0-2000RPM...but nothing works. It's idle surging like that's its sole reason for living, and AFRs are staying stubbornly in the 16-17 range. Instead of fighting with it anymore, I decided to just shut it down, lock it up, and post up the log on here and see what @Stapl3 can find for me. I accomplished my goal though. It starts, idles, and comes up to temperature without catastrophic failure or exploding so mission accomplished. I'll fight the fuel rail and TPS sensor off and replace it once my new one comes in. For now, peruse my log and enjoy.


Log! (cliffnotes are it idle surges like a SOB, is lean AF, and ignores everything you do to try to add fuel to it. No boost leaks, maybe bad TPS)


Edit: Forgot to clip that log so it's raw. Lol my bad. Idling starts at 847.90 seconds.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Well, I went to double check the TPS and noticed the bottom bolt was weird. Backed it completely off and when I did…well, this is what I found.

If this wasn't THE problem, it was at least A problem. New one is on the way from Performance Partout as we speak. Really hope this fixes the idle and hesitation issues. I also am gonna solder on all new injector plugs and the CAS plugs tomorrow. I'm gonna relax for the rest of today. We'll see how I feel later though. I may get bored.

Also: this is what awaits me tomorrow. Got my new injector plugs and the cas plug. CAS plug is from OHM Racing injector clips are from P.O. And probably eBay/chingchongland. But they’ll do.

 

[Stapl3]

I'd say simply turn the BISS in while it's surging until it stops, but your TPS is at zero volts while it's doing it, as you know.

The car is going to idle weird when cold because the FIAV is gone. IDK why people do this, it's always been a bad move for me. I have a car here currently that doesn't have it and I have to literally hold the gas pedal cracked open for 5 min until it can hold idle. Really stupid mod.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Keep it up!
You are making good progress.

Yeah, not having a FIAV is not so fun for a cold car. FIAV is open when cold, and closed when you get to about 180deg coolant temp, so holding the throttle open is going to be normal for you.

After it gets warm, set the BISS unil the surge goes away. If its already closed and surging, then you clearly have too much air leaking past the throttle plate somewhere.

Boost leak tester will help you find vacuum leaks too.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I will take a look at the logs. Lean AF is likely a global fuel issue, more on that later

 

[CrackedDSM]

I'd say simply turn the BISS in while it's surging until it stops, but your TPS is at zero volts while it's doing it, as you know.

The car is going to idle weird when cold because the FIAV is gone. IDK why people do this, it's always been a bad move for me. I have a car here currently that doesn't have it and I have to literally hold the gas pedal cracked open for 5 min until it can hold idle. Really stupid mod.

Keep it up!
You are making good progress.

Yeah, not having a FIAV is not so fun for a cold car. FIAV is open when cold, and closed when you get to about 180deg coolant temp, so holding the throttle open is going to be normal for you.

After it gets warm, set the BISS unil the surge goes away. If its already closed and surging, then you clearly have too much air leaking past the throttle plate somewhere.

Boost leak tester will help you find vacuum leaks too.

Well, thankfully how I deleted the FIAV means it can be easily undone. It's essentially just a blockoff plate. It idles by itself without any throttle input, and starts first try. It's just randomly starting to idle surge now. Probably because it's actually getting heat into the engine now, where before I wasn't allowing it to run very long. It idled perfect for a bit, then started doing its dance. I've got the BISS screwed 2 1/2 turns out right now, so I'll mess with it later.


The weird thing is I guess because of the idle surge (on throttle off throttle) I can't really see a valid AFR reading because this AEM UEGO is like 15 billion years old. Lol. And also because right when it starts reading the fuel gets cut and it idles back down.


Good to know though it may be a simple matter of either screwing in the BISS more, or just putting the FIAV back in it. I've got more hose and more clamps, so if it still acts dumb I'll just put the FIAV back in it. With living in Florida, I didn't think I'd really need one TBH. It rarely gets "cold" here.


Appreciate both of yall!


Edit: if it helps to know the injectors are FIC 1050 low impedence bois, and fuel pressure is set to 43.5 via AFPR with the line off and the nipple blocked with a finger.


Double edit: Oh, and @Justin DuBois, I found the squeaking in my engine bay. The oem cam bolts and the top-most cam adjusting bolt has decided the clear cover must be beaten for its insolence. It's my fault because both the mounting holes were broken so I fixed them with some epoxy and redrilled new holes for the metal sleeves...I think I drilled them too far back so it pulled the cover too far back.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Well, thankfully how I deleted the FIAV means it can be easily undone. It's essentially just a blockoff plate. It idles by itself without any throttle input, and starts first try. It's just randomly starting to idle surge now. Probably because it's actually getting heat into the engine now, where before I wasn't allowing it to run very long. It idled perfect for a bit, then started doing its dance. I've got the BISS screwed 2 1/2 turns out right now, so I'll mess with it later.

Pardon my clarification on one thing, by cold - I'm referring to the engine - or anything below 180deg. (I'm sure in winter, it takes a bit longer to warm up either way) I have not tried a FIAV block off myself - but it is a better solution than fighting with a broken FIAV. The way I see it, your going to want to get idle control working per spec, and then deal with any cold-hold-open throttle to keep it from stalling until the coolant temp gets you in range of the ISC control - issues

Regards surge - Surge tells you the throttle position close switch is "closed", and the ECU cuts ignition to prevent runaway acceleration.

Be sure to check your throttle cable adjustment. I like the technique where you loosen the bolts, peg the throttle to the floor with a stick, and then tighten the adjustment where it is holding the throttle at max open.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Pardon my clarification on one thing, by cold - I'm referring to the engine - or anything below 180deg. (I'm sure in winter, it takes a bit longer to warm up either way) I have not tried a FIAV block off myself - but it is a better solution than fighting with a broken FIAV. The way I see it, your going to want to get idle control working per spec, and then deal with any cold-hold-open throttle to keep it from stalling until the coolant temp gets you in range of the ISC control - issues

Regards surge - Surge tells you the throttle position close switch is "closed", and the ECU cuts ignition to prevent runaway acceleration.

Be sure to check your throttle cable adjustment. I like the technique where you loosen the bolts, peg the throttle to the floor with a stick, and then tighten the adjustment where it is holding the throttle at max open.

Gotcha! More things I’m gonna add to my list. I’m pretty confident in my throttle cable but might as well check it again.

Just happy it idles and is sealed. Stoked.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Ok, I looked into the last log you posted. I'm just gonna note some things in the ECU config that caught my eye.

RPM/TPS
Your throttle close position switch is being simulated - I do this too. - New sensor will help
Your target idle is really high? 1100rpm (I use 800rpm w/stock cams, just for a little more oil pressure)

Fuel
Those fuel sliders! - zero those out - Solve whatever issue you are working on here with some other fix.
Global Fuel looks reasonable for a starting point. You are going to be tweaking this when you can finally drive WOT.
Global deadtime is where you are going to make some adjustments to zero out our fuel trims once you are holding idle.

MAF Comp
You have a global scalar set on your MAF - probably should zero that out, and use global fuel instead.

Not sure about the ECU Inputs tab - I see Factory/None on all the pin assignments, Do you have a Wideband, MAP sensor, and IAT sensor wired to the ECU? Check if these are configured for you.

 

[Stapl3]

It is my understanding the fuel sliders are only applied at WOT. I think they're only now relevant for launching situations. I have dsmlink V1 here, there are like two tabs on the left, and what is DirectAccess? There was no Mafcomp! The fuel sliders were used because that was the adjustment. They have no place for us 20 years later. Zero them out.

Wire the WB to the ECU, PIN assign it, and capture it so we can see it in datalogs.

When you do get the car to behave at idle, adjust the CAS so you're at 5*.

if it helps to know the injectors are FIC 1050 low impedence bois, and fuel pressure is set to 43.5 via AFPR with the line off and the nipple blocked with a finger.

Leave for now, but your global fuel OR base pressure will change I promise. Do not treat these numbers as gospel.


Edit: For throttle cable adjustment, I do it when the throttle is closed. I want it as perfect as I can get there because when I push the gas pedal 1mm, I want instant 1mm reaction to the TB. I don't give a f*** about calibrating it at WOT, because it'll end up there anyways.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Edit: For throttle cable adjustment, I do it when the throttle is closed. I want it as perfect as I can get there because when I push the gas pedal 1mm, I want instant 1mm reaction to the TB. I don't give a f*** about calibrating it at WOT, because it'll end up there anyways.

Err, maybe re-think that approach. Your foot will take up the slack in the cable, and the amount you crack it open will be against the pedal resistance of the TB spring. For closed throttle position, the cable should not be anywhere near tight. Temperature changes in the throttle cable housing could cause the cable to go tight, and open the plate.

The WOT tight approach is to prevent you from over-stressing the TB stop and breaking the throttle body when you are driving like a demon possessed, mashing the pedal to the floor.

 

[Stapl3]

Ok. So what amount should my foot crack open? And temperature of the cable will adjust? And I won't mash the pedal, eff full readings

 

[Justin DuBois]

Ok. So what amount should my foot crack open? And temperature of the cable will adjust? And I won't mash the pedal, eff full readings

You will feel it in your toes!

 

[CrackedDSM]

Ok, I looked into the last log you posted. I'm just gonna note some things in the ECU config that caught my eye.

RPM/TPS
Your throttle close position switch is being simulated - I do this too. - New sensor will help
Your target idle is really high? 1100rpm (I use 800rpm w/stock cams, just for a little more oil pressure)

Fuel
Those fuel sliders! - zero those out - Solve whatever issue you are working on here with some other fix.
Global Fuel looks reasonable for a starting point. You are going to be tweaking this when you can finally drive WOT.
Global deadtime is where you are going to make some adjustments to zero out our fuel trims once you are holding idle.

MAF Comp
You have a global scalar set on your MAF - probably should zero that out, and use global fuel instead.

Not sure about the ECU Inputs tab - I see Factory/None on all the pin assignments, Do you have a Wideband, MAP sensor, and IAT sensor wired to the ECU? Check if these are configured for you.

1) high idle was back when it wouldn’t idle without some gas pedal action. I was hoping raising the idle high would fix it but it didn’t. Just forgot to lower it back to a reasonable level. Lol.

2) yeah the sliders were a Hail Mary I did at the very end just for giggles. I didn’t expect it to work and it didn’t.


3) I don’t have anything wired to the ecu yet. I can fix that tomorrow though when I do more wiring. I have a map sensor and an IAT, they just aren’t ran/being used.



I 100% didn’t know about the MAF scalar, and the simulate throttle switch. I’ve got a switch and got it wired in so I have no idea why that box was checked. And I’m wanting to target 5* at idle? Is that right?


Got some work ahead but that’s okay. Once it’s all ironed out then I can tackle why the clutch isn’t working. Lol

 

[Justin DuBois]

It is my understanding the fuel sliders are only applied at WOT. I think they're only now relevant for launching situations. I have dsmlink V1 here, there are like two tabs on the left, and what is DirectAccess? There was no Mafcomp! The fuel sliders were used because that was the adjustment. They have no place for us 20 years later.

If they did only apply at WOT, that would be a decent feature. In my work with these, they applied a correction everywhere always and then in closed loop mode - the correction would move into the fuel trims with its automatic feedback loop - Nightmare!

When you do get the car to behave at idle, adjust the CAS so you're at 5*.

Yes this - Wanted to say you need to put a timing light on the crank and tell ecmlink to hold timing and then adjust the CAS position until the timing on the crank matches the timing reported in ecmlink

 

[92Turbski]

If they did only apply at WOT, that would be a decent feature. In my work with these, they applied a correction everywhere always and then in closed loop mode - the correction would move into the fuel trims with its automatic feedback loop - Nightmare!


Yes this - Wanted to say you need to put a timing light on the crank and tell ecmlink to hold timing and then adjust the CAS position until the timing on the crank matches the timing reported in ecmlink

@CrackedDSM
Boost leak test, boost leak test, boost leak test, player! Lol

 

[CrackedDSM]

@CrackedDSM
Boost leak test, boost leak test, boost leak test, player! Lol

I did. There are none, thankfully. I was super worried about the BOV in particular, but it's all tight up to 30lbs.