2G 95 tsi no fire 1+4 cylinders

[dsm4superman]

I just picked up this 95 talon tsi and have yet to get it running. After looking at all the vac lines and possible boost leak areas I have yet to find anything. I pulled the plug wires off the coil to see if I had spark and the #1 +#4 cylinders had none. #2 #3 are working fine. Car runs but idles low. Holds boost fine too. Replaced the ICM after reading several post that pointed the finger at the ICM. This increased the idle but still no fire. Need some help. I'm new to the turbo thing

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

I just picked up this 95 talon tsi and have yet to get it running. After looking at all the vac lines and possible boost leak areas I have yet to find anything. I pulled the plug wires off the coil to see if I had spark and the #1 +#4 cylinders had none. #2 #3 are working fine. Car runs but idles low. Holds boost fine too. Replaced the ICM after reading several post that pointed the finger at the ICM. This increased the idle but still no fire. Need some help. I'm new to the turbo thing

Well if your not getting spark from the coil itself then either you have a band coil or the coil isn't getting proper signal. Also there should be a small ground wire that bolts to one of the coil mounting bolts. the one towards the fender closer to the fire wall. Make sure thats hooked on there. The crank sensor is what controls the spark and the cam controls the injector pulse. It seems unlikely to be a bad crank sensor to be giving signal to 2+3 but not not 1+4. It sounds more towards a bad coil pack to me.

 

[dsm4superman]

I've got a lil work to do sounds like. I'll try these things this afternoon and get back to you. Now that it's colder and the days are shorter my motivation levels have plumited. Wish I knew some locals around here in Clarksville, tn that had some

Knowledge and a garage

 

[RWD4G63]

Well if your not getting spark from the coil itself then either you have a band coil or the coil isn't getting proper signal. Also there should be a small ground wire that bolts to one of the coil mounting bolts. the one towards the fender closer to the fire wall. Make sure thats hooked on there. The crank sensor is what controls the spark and the cam controls the injector pulse. It seems unlikely to be a bad crank sensor to be giving signal to 2+3 but not not 1+4. It sounds more towards a bad coil pack to me.

Sounds like you have a bad coil OP

Check the cam angle sensor, it's inside the cam gear, and requires a timing belt job to replace.

 

[fastgsx99]

It could be a jumped timing also... I recommend checking that before anything.

 

[stuckwithgsx]

If it jumped time it would still spark. Just not at the correct time.

 

[kenuwine4g63]

That first coil on the coil pack sounds bad to me, it gives the 1-4 plugs its signal to spark. test it with a multimeter should be around 12.0-13.9...if real low or no reading its either open or done.

 

[ed1380]

Cam angle sensor. When it goes out you get spark only on 2 cylinders.

 

[dsm4superman]

Coil reads 14.9 ohms and had power going to coil but no output so I think it's a bad coil but I'm checking everything the best I can with limited tools and no warm garage. eek!

 

[Zack Huffman]

Cam angle sensor. When it goes out you get spark only on 2 cylinders.

Maybe if it has an intermittent short or your plug wires aren't in the right order.

A complete CAS failure won't allow the engine to start at all.

OP, sounds like your 1&4 coil is shot to me. Check the wiring to the coil from the power transistor and from the power transistor to the ECU.

EDIT: Didn't see your post until I put mine up. I agree.

 

[dsm4superman]

That first coil on the coil pack sounds bad to me, it gives the 1-4 plugs its signal to spark. test it with a multimeter should be around 12.0-13.9...if real low or no reading its either open or done.

The readings for a 2g are a lil lower than the 1g. Forget the exact specs now though

Delta looks like you may be right. Got power from the icm but no output from coil

 

[ed1380]

It wont start. But you will have spark on one coil. I had it happen on my 95 gst. I was about to replace the coil, but saw that the cas plate screw on the cam gear had backed out and took out my cas sensor.

Maybe if it has an intermittent short or your plug wires aren't in the right order.

A complete CAS failure won't allow the engine to start at all.

OP, sounds like your 1&4 coil is shot to me. Check the wiring to the coil from the power transistor and from the power transistor to the ECU.

EDIT: Didn't see your post until I put mine up. I agree.

 

[dsm4superman]

Coil was an epic fail. Still no spark on cylinders 1+4. Plugs, wires are good icm was replaced with another used one. First coil is new and second is firing properly. I do have a coolant light on or something and cel comes on. Pops up as a p0300 multiple misfire code. Go figure right. I'm lost and I need a plain answer of what to do next. I'm not vey electrically inclined. Anyone around the Clarksville TN area that could help me out

It wont start. But you will have spark on one coil. I had it happen on my 95 gst. I was about to replace the coil, but saw that the cas plate screw on the cam gear had backed out and took out my cas sensor.

Mine starts but only fires the 2+3 cylinders. Idles at 800-1100

 

[RWD4G63]

To whoever gave me negative rep for "misinformation" please correct me publicly next time. I was going by what an educated DSMer said, he just happened to be standing behind me while I was reading the OP, and I trusted what he said. I would gladly admit I'm wrong.

So thanks, ya jerk. Post edited.

To the OP, have you pulled your upper timing cover to check the CAS? You should be able to see it through the cam gear, and it's somewhat common for them to back off and get broken.

 

[dsm4superman]

To whoever gave me negative rep for "misinformation" please correct me publicly next time. I was going by what an educated DSMer said, he just happened to be standing behind me while I was reading the OP, and I trusted what he said. I would gladly admit I'm wrong.

So thanks, ya jerk. Post edited.

To the OP, have you pulled your upper timing cover to check the CAS? You should be able to see it through the cam gear, and it's somewhat common for them to back off and get broken.

I will tomorrow if I get a moment. Army has got me runnin around like a chicken with my head cut off. How can I test my ICM and CAS?

 

[viperlp01]

I told RWD4G63 about the cam/crank signals and how they control both fuel and spark. 8 times out of 10 the sensors crack and thats how they break and no longer send a signal.

Also if the car is running on only 2 cylinders and the dead cylinders plugs are wet when you pull them that is a coil issue. If those plugs are dry when you pull them then you have a cas problem.

Ok so here is how I would diagnose it further.

You need a multimeter, pull the plug for the coil,

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Then test this,

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And if those check out, you have a bad cam angle sensor. The cam angle sensor controls 1 & 4 BOTH spark and fuel, I have no idea why someone would give some bad rep for stating the obvious. How would the ecu know when to fire the injectors and the plugs otherwise? The crank angle sensor controls 2 & 3. I would say it is more common for the cas to go bad over the crank angle.

 

[russell3123]

If the car runs like stated then its not the cas, its the coil. The coil is probably putting out really weak spark so its hard to see thats why the car still runs but idles really low. If it was the cas it wouldnt run at all because it would have no spark or fuel like viperlp01 said.

 

[dsm4superman]

Well that's wired since I pulled the coil and replaced and the icm so the cas seems like its my next option. If that's not it there may be a 95 tsi for sale

 

[russell3123]

Faulty wiring ? or mpi relay?

 

[dsm4superman]

Also when I pulled the plugs out after running and the plugs that weren't firing were dry so no fuel to those plugs

 

[russell3123]

Have u checked the ecu?

 

[TofastForU_99]

Like RWD4G63 said like 1000 post ago. Cam angle sensor.

 

[Zack Huffman]

It seems some people's feelings have been very hurt here over something petty. FYI, I've already privately notified the mod staff to remove 4G63RWD's negative rep mark since he edited out the bad info. However, if there's a next time, simply sending a polite PM to one of the staff might've worked a little faster than publicly posting a shit smear in retaliation.
How about we all drop that issue right here?

And if those check out, you have a bad cam angle sensor. The cam angle sensor controls 1 & 4 BOTH spark and fuel, I have no idea why someone would give some bad rep for stating the obvious. How would the ecu know when to fire the injectors and the plugs otherwise? The crank angle sensor controls 2 & 3. I would say it is more common for the cas to go bad over the crank angle.

Green: correct
Red: not correct

The crank sensor pulses once every 180 degrees of crank rotation and tells the ECU which 2 pistons are at TDC (one on compression one on exhaust). That signal alone is enough to tell the ECU which coil to fire.

The timing belt drives the cams at 1/2 the speed of the crank. The cam sensor pulses once per full 360 degree crank revolution and it tells the ECU which injector is next in line based on how the signal lines up with the pulses from the crank sensor.

If your timing belt skips you can cause an injector or two to not be fired because the ECU will never see the correct alignment between the crank sensor pulse and the cam sensor pulse.

If your CAS stops sending a pulse altogether, the ECU will shut off fuel delivery after 4 seconds. If the CAS sends a pulse out of time with the crank sensor pulse, the ECU may continuously fire only whichever injectors match the coded triggers correctly enough.

In case any of you haven't seen the Road Race Eng page before, the top waveform shows the signal spikes from the ECU to fire injector #1, the middle waveform is the signal to the ECU from the cam sensor -which has one long pulse and one short pulse, the bottom waveform showing equal pulses is the signal to the ECU from the crank sensor:

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If you click the link I posted above, you can see the triggering alignment for all 4 injectors.

If you swap a 1G CAS into your 2G and use it for both cam and crank signals you'll never see any sensor time alignment issues.

OP, have you verified your timing belt already? I'd check that too, along with the FSM pages John posted.

 

[dsm4superman]

I pulled my upper cam cover today to look for the CAS and I think I may have jumped a tooth in timing. Seems as if my belt is a little loose. Also while the car was running I unplugged my CAS and there was no change in how the motor was running. Taking it to a shop tomorrow. I don't have the time, patience, or tools for getting that CAS out

 

[ed1380]

BYOL. Might as well bring them a timing belt and water pump.