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2G 95 tsi no fire 1+4 cylinders

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dsm4superman

10+ Year Contributor
88
0
Apr 17, 2011
Clarksville, Tennessee
I just picked up this 95 talon tsi and have yet to get it running. After looking at all the vac lines and possible boost leak areas I have yet to find anything. I pulled the plug wires off the coil to see if I had spark and the #1 +#4 cylinders had none. #2 #3 are working fine. Car runs but idles low. Holds boost fine too. Replaced the ICM after reading several post that pointed the finger at the ICM. This increased the idle but still no fire. Need some help. I'm new to the turbo thing
 
Personally, I have no regrets about swapping to a 1g. I am using one of the older green tops, but it was all that I could find quickly. If you do the swap, a black top sensor is thought to be best because it's a hall sensor like the 95 CAS. It is supposed to be slightly more accurate, though I have had no issues with my green top EXCEPT the random misfire p0300 issue that nearly everyone gets with the 1g CAS swap. I used the potentiometer (ie. Pot mod) on the barometric pressure sensor wire to keep the ECU from looking for misfire at cruise. It is less than optimal, as it leans out the A/F ratio because the computer thinks it's driving around on top of Mt. Everest and there's less air due to the potentiometer changing the baro reading. I compensated with an SAFC2 since I had one and had to add quite a bit to it even with 550cc injectors. The RIGHT way to fix it is with ECULink or similar, which also will prevent you from having to re-wire the ignition coils and injector firing order, which you will have to do to make it run correctly without ECU management. It's not terribly complicated, but it is a bit of a pain changing all the injector pins around in the ECU harness.

That said, I would say it's a world of difference better than the 95 stock ignition, simply because you don't have to redo the timing belt if anything is wrong with the CAS, which is a finicky POS from my experience. Being able to back the timing off a bit from the advance caused by the pot mod is good too, because its adjustable, unlike the 95 sensors. Personally, I would quit messing around with the 95 CAS and do the swap. It has been one of the better EMS changes I've done to my 95. It's just easier to maintain once everything is changed and running right with the 1g CAS.

That's my $0.02 + tax.
What exactly is this pot thing? I've seen them, heard about the, but i have two 95 neither on had them?
OP have you check the injector and coil pins coming out of the ecu to see if signal is coming out of the computer? PCM/ECM/computer (whatever you want to call in) pin numbers for injectors and coils are pin#1 for right side coil pin#21 for left side coil, pin#4 for #1 injector and pin#23 for injector# 2. Verify that you have signals coming out of the ecu. If so problem exists after the computer if not then problem exits before or inside.
http://pictures.sprintpcs.com/share...W8OhUQ90&shareName=MMS&messageState=RETRIEVED
 
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What exactly is this pot thing? I've seen them, heard about the, but i have two 95 neither on had them?

It's a hack mod. "pot" is short for potentiometer. It's a variable resistance device used in electronics. A volume knob on an old stereo is an example of a potentiometer.

In the past, the "pot mod" was a makeshift way to eliminate the P0300 random misfire code from being thrown when using a 1G CAS with a 2G ECU. You wire the pot in line between the BARO (part of the stock MAS sensor) and it's input pin to the ECU and then turn the knob until the ECU stops seeing an atmospheric pressure under which it checks for random misfires. The engine will run leaner as a secondary side effect since the ECU thinks you're at high altitude where the air is thin.

pin numbers for injectors and coils are pin#1 for right side coil pin#21 for left side coil, pin#4 for #1 injector and pin#23 for injector# 2.

I think your pin numbers are a little off...
2G Turbo ECU Pinouts
 
The pot mod works, but you're hacking up the ECU wiring harness when you do it. If you're not comfortable with that, then the only other option is an engine management system, like ECU link. That will allow you to specify what kind of CAS it is and prevent the random misfire code... The P0300 code is not fun either. It basically cuts off ignition whatever cylinder it thought the "misfire" occurred in, even though no misfire happened, and when that happens at 70 mph on the highway, it can be a little rough (its actually quite a jolt... Not cool at all).
 
It's a hack mod. "pot" is short for potentiometer. It's a variable resistance device used in electronics. A volume knob on an old stereo is an example of a potentiometer.

In the past, the "pot mod" was a makeshift way to eliminate the P0300 random misfire code from being thrown when using a 1G CAS with a 2G ECU. You wire the pot in line between the BARO (part of the stock MAS sensor) and it's input pin to the ECU and then turn the knob until the ECU stops seeing an atmospheric pressure under which it checks for random misfires. The engine will run leaner as a secondary side effect since the ECU thinks you're at high altitude where the air is thin.



I think your pin numbers are a little off...
2G Turbo ECU Pinouts
Was this something that came on them stock? Because I only have the sensor behind the intake cam gear. On the engine I took out of the car I am currently driving had a sensor behind the intake gear and another thing on the other end of the cam but it looked nothing like the CAS you all are talking about. Just asking for the sake of knowledge. My evo 7 engine doesn't have it either which I'm sure its cause its much newer engine. All I have on my engine Is a sensor behind the gear and looks just like the crank sensor. The other end just has a seal in it that came with the rebuild kit.
And thanks for the pin out. The pic I posted and was referencing off of was of alldata repair. Which I have found to not always be accurate. I will print and add that to my dsm info thanks.
I have actually experienced what I believe to be ignition cut off with my gst and first time thought it was cause of boost leak due to loose clamp on a connection but it happened once the other day? Can enough boost leak past turbo seals to cause this to happen? I do have leaking turbo seals.
OP Use the pin out provided by delta and run jumper wires from each of the correct wires to your injectors and coil and if they work when you do that you indeed have a break in your harness. If not this will also eliminate any thought of a problem after the ecu. Correct me please if I am wrong.
 
Just understand that if you mess up the wiring on the ecu, you will be in a bad situation. I re-wired my car myself, and have done it before, but if you have any doubt about your ability to keep track of the pin out, wire routes, and intermediate equipment on the wires, then don't mess with it. Get someone who knows it to look at it or help with the work. A single mistake can easily fry the ECU.

No, the potentiometer mod is not normal equipment on any car. I had to go buy a 10k potentiometer at Radio Shack and splice it into the barometric sensor signal wire to the ECU. It modifies the signal. Barometric pressure is one of 4 criteria that is measured to determine if the car should be monitoring for misfire or not. By changing it to be permanently outside of that parameter for barometric pressure, the car never looks for misfire.

This is what a 1g CAS looks like mounted on a 2g head. I don't have a crank sensor or the sensor behind the intake cam gear. This CAS simulates the crank sensor signal and is spliced into the crank position sensor signal wire also. It does both jobs and is easy to get to. No more re-doing the timing to change the 95 style CAS.

<img src="http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/files/1/3/0/6/8/7/imag0321.jpg" alt="Imag0321" />
 
Was this something that came on them stock?
No.

Because I only have the sensor behind the intake cam gear.
That's where your stock cam sensor should be since you have a 95.
You really don't need to worry about doing this modification if you're not getting the P0300 code.

On the engine I took out of the car I am currently driving had a sensor behind the intake gear and another thing on the other end of the cam but it looked nothing like the CAS you all are talking about.
Well, that doesn't help us identify it much. If it was a 97+ cylinder head it could have the rounded triangle shaped CAS housing at the trans end of the intake cam. A 1G CAS would be easy for you to identify.

Just asking for the sake of knowledge. My evo 7 engine doesn't have it either which I'm sure its cause its much newer engine.
Your Evo 7 should have the same sensor as a 2Gb, like I described above. Just on the other side of the engine bay since the engine orientation is backwards.

I have actually experienced what I believe to be ignition cut off with my gst and first time thought it was cause of boost leak due to loose clamp on a connection but it happened once the other day? Can enough boost leak past turbo seals to cause this to happen? I do have leaking turbo seals.
You need to start your own thread and not hijack this one. PM me a link to it after you do that.

Correct me please if I am wrong.
He needs to eliminate the possibility that the ignition power transistors he's used are both bad. If they are found to be good, then I do agree that the harness needs checked.
 
Okay yeah It looked kinda something similar to that 1g CAS he pictured. I don't exactly know where I put mine but I don't think it looked just like that 1g sensor. But the guy I bought it from still had both cam and crank sensor installed. Though he wasn't the smartest guy ever since he blew the engine up in 53.6 miles after his rebuild. And no I don't have any codes so I guess I'm good. Okay cool thanks for the info "He needs to eliminate the possibility that the ignition power transistors he's used are both bad. If they are found to be good, then I do agree that the harness needs checked." and that input. OP I hope you get it figured out soon man!
Edit: Also delta I haven't run out of things to check and do to try and fix it. I will make a thread when I get to where I don't know what else to do. Unlikely though. Then I will PM the link.
 
Looks as though we are in the same boat. My 95 gst is only firing on one coil. I have replaced the PT, both coils, spark plugs, crank sensor, sent the ecu into ECM Tuning and traced the wires. The only thing that i haven't tried is the cas.

Finally getting to my question. When you changed your cas did you do a 1g swap or did you just change the 2g?
 
Looks as though we are in the same boat. My 95 gst is only firing on one coil. I have replaced the PT, both coils, spark plugs, crank sensor, sent the ecu into ECM Tuning and traced the wires. The only thing that i haven't tried is the cas.

Finally getting to my question. When you changed your cas did you do a 1g swap or did you just change the 2g?

If you're asking me, I put a 1g CAS on a 2g head. I am still running a 7 bolt and everything else is 7 bolt equipment (except my COP's). It does require some work to make this function correctly, but I have had absolutely no problems with mine since the known flaws with the swap were addressed. I actually have a hell of a lot more faith in the 1g CAS than a 95-96. No risk of FOB damage bending a ring and destroying the sensor, amongst other major advantages, such as never having to re-do the timing if there is a timing related issue with the CAS. :thumb:
 
I personally changed out the 95-96 cas. It's not fun but it was cheaper at the time. My problem is yet to be resolved as of yet though

Going to swap the wires on the transistor tomorrow
 
hey if you check out modified imports let me know how they are. I want to do my rebuild and some more work but i wanna see how he does with small jobs before i make a big leap with him. i was gonna drop it off tomorrow to get my clutch installed and if yours isnt fixed yet ill head over to your place and take a look at it. my friend knows more about mitsubishis than i do so ill bring him along. also if you want richmond is downtown their shop is decent too from what i hear.
 
i have a 1g 4g63 with the same problem. i have changed ecu,pt,cp. but mine is no spark on 2 an 3. we might have same problem if i fix mine i will let you know what i did.
 
There isn't really anything else involved that could cause those problems, unless that is something controlled by those ISC's on the ECU circuit board. I think if those fail though, you can usually see they took some heat damage, or stick a multimeter on the terminals and see if there is any output.
 
Set your meter to "Continunity" check the wire on both ends, if the wire is good you will hear an "beep tone" from the meter, otherwise you hear no tone from the meter the wire is broken.
 
H@xtGSX said:
Continuity test the wiring harness, if you haven't already. No signal how? No voltage? Steady voltage?

I tested the wire just outside the ecu. There was no output signal there. I will test tomorrow for continuity once I make a jumper wire that long LOL. Hard to test continuity from under the hood the the drivers floorboard
 
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