2G 550HP 4G63 Engine rebuild or get a prebuilt engine?

[onekillerdsm]

Hey everyone. Not sure if there's a thread for this, but wanted to get some suggestions/advice. To put into context here's what I'm looking at. I have a 99 eclipse GSX. The engine seized and was taken a shop about 10 years ago. They removed the head and found it was cracked. The valves were shot and so were the pistons. I didn't have the time or money back then to get it put back together with new parts. So it's been sitting since then. I haven't let go of this car cause c'mon. I love my DSM! So now I'm in the process of restoring her back up. There's no guarantee the block is still good and/or salvageable since it's been sitting for an extended period of time. So my first question is.

If the block is still good. Should I invest in getting it rebuilt?
Or
Should I look for a prebiult engine to just swap in?

The car will need much more work to get it going of course. It's a project car. My thing is having an engine of at least 550-600 HP.

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[97egl]

Its going to depend on how bad that engine is and what you can do yourself rebuild wise. Looks like it saw plenty of water/moisture but the bores may clean up with just a good hone or they could be pitted so bad you have to bore it 1mm oversize. If you can't rebuild then engine yourself the cheaper way is going to be finding an already built engine or at least built short block. Rixracing.com has pretty good deals on built engines when they come across them. Sounds like youre not in a rush so you'll have time to watch for a good deal.

You can sell your short block to recoupe some of your costs as well.


600 hp is a really expensive horsepower range to shoot for. The manual transmission are on borrowed time once you get above the 400hp range and rods are probably not going to live long at that horsepower either. 350 horsepower is a really good goal in my opinion. Engine and transmission can live happily in that range.

 

[steve]

Wow, hopefully someone who's built a 600HP 4G63 can post what they have spent on the engine but it's going to run $2K on up to start based on a quick search. Most shop built blocks/heads look to be in the $6k to $10K range with no claims as to HP. You''ll still need a turbo and manifolds to go with, $2K -$5K for them. An AWD transmission to support that, if it can be built, another $10K perhaps.

At least it doesn't look like the strut towers are rotted on on that shell. So you have that going for you..

 

[evil_eagletalon]

Your looking at alot of money just like any other “build” i would suggest starting off by rebuilding the motor with forged internals getting it running tip top mcgoo and slowly starting upgrades. It can get expensive real quick so dont be afraid of buying used parts like turbo,manifolds,injectors,waste gate etc…

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

You can try my cost analysis spreadsheet.

 

[curt-s]

Building a 500 capable long block right now and I don't think I care to know the cost. Just the pistons, bearings, girdle, and flywheel alone was 1500usd
Rods were another 600 on sale
68htav3 was about 1500
O2 and wastegate another 500
The smaller bits nickle and dime you to death and add up to well more than a grand.

That's IF you don't need to upgrade suspension and brakes to handle the power.

The trans, well, unless you have a spare or spare 10k, think carefully if you want to even do this. Those are your options. Most of us don't have another kicking around and some have multiple spares so they're better equipped to deal with inevitable failure.

So, yeah, it's not cheap or potentially even smart. Nobody said I was the latter.

 

[spooled_u_1st]

Been a while since I was at the engine shop so I'm not sure what current prices are but this will give you an idea.

It's always wise to have a plan that fits your budget.

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Disclaimer: That Cost Analysis spreadsheet can and WILL scare you. Use it at your own discretion!

 

[chrysler kid]

on a car thats been sitting for years, I would try to find a used running engine and pull the old one to build.

why? so you can drive the car and get other issues figured out. at best when you finish building your built motor you can pull the stock motor and get your money back.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

That is kind of the way I have things at my place. I have spare everything, usually ready to drop in and go. I got caught off guard on the motor issue back in July or August as I didn't have a replacement high horse motor ready. I have a medium build on a stand, ready, but it is meant for my White 90 GSX that has a low oil pressure light coming on, so I quit driving it too until I can do a motor R&R. It's nice to drive the car while you work on its other motor. You don't get "burned out".

 

[curt-s]

Spare everything.. oh, to dream.

 

[onekillerdsm]

Its going to depend on how bad that engine is and what you can do yourself rebuild wise. Looks like it saw plenty of water/moisture but the bores may clean up with just a good hone or they could be pitted so bad you have to bore it 1mm oversize. If you can't rebuild then engine yourself the cheaper way is going to be finding an already built engine or at least built short block. Rixracing.com has pretty good deals on built engines when they come across them. Sounds like youre not in a rush so you'll have time to watch for a good deal.

You can sell your short block to recoupe some of your costs as well.


600 hp is a really expensive horsepower range to shoot for. The manual transmission are on borrowed time once you get above the 400hp range and rods are probably not going to live long at that horsepower either. 350 horsepower is a really good goal in my opinion. Engine and transmission can live happily in that range.

Thanks @97egl as much as I would love to get to build the motor myself. I unfortunately don't have the time or place to do that. I have looked into finding an already built motor as well.

It is an expensive range to aim for. I think most my concerns are having a good internal build engine that can hold and withstand the continuing bolt ons and mods that will be thrown at it.

Your looking at alot of money just like any other “build” i would suggest starting off by rebuilding the motor with forged internals getting it running tip top mcgoo and slowly starting upgrades. It can get expensive real quick so dont be afraid of buying used parts like turbo,manifolds,injectors,waste gate etc…

Thanks. I agree with that for sure. The last local shop I called for a quote said to me that they don't take customer parts. They only provide the parts. Not sure if all places will be the same or not.

Thanks everyone for the input and suggestions. It's definitely a great help in getting things planned and set up.

The transmission has also been a bit of a concern. I'm not sure they are rated for high torque and HP and may be another high end cost. As for the engine, I think that is a good idea @chrysler kid get a used engine to put in while the current one is being rebuilt. It's been sitting for so long that I would have to see what else needs to be fixed and taken care of to get it in running condition.

Though I know this is a project car. I'm not anticipating it being up and running any time soon. I've been holding on to it for this long.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

LABOR RATES:
$85/Hr
If you watch - $105.00/Hr
If you help - $125.00/Hr
If you bring your own parts - $150.00/Hr
I worked at a shop A LONG TIME AGO that had some signage similar to that.
I'm just teasing, but if my customer can buy parts at the same price as me, my labor rates HAVE to increase to make a profit, otherwise I'm working to dam cheap. The old man I worked for was an Ex-Marine. I think he had it up so the customers would just leave him alone.

 

[curt-s]

Just factor in the markup of buying parts from your machine shop and if the labour rates would increase 1:1 if you bought through someone else, then you're effectively breaking even anyway.
On one hand, labour rate increases.
On the other, both the reseller and the shop are adding their own profit margin.

The only way youd likely save is if you can get parts a fair bit cheaper than the shop.


The trans is of definite concern. Careful tuning can extend its life, especially with conservative timing and boost around peak torque, but it won't last forever and most of the important internals have been discontinued. Autos are stronger but if you're a dyed in the wool gear rower, you may see an additional 10k+ as a deal breaker.

 

[pauleyman]

I haven't built one in awhile. I would imagine any shop will discuss pricing if you're up front about what you want. The average machine shops I've dealt with don't want to do performance builds, different specs etc. You have to convince them you know what you're doing if you provide specs, parts etc. They for damn sure don't want to accept liability if something goes wrong on a performance build.