2G Tubular front k-member build - share ideas!

[gixxerdrew]

Paul, I will spend countless hours on the phone with you if needed to help in any way I can with this project. You know how to reach me. Please dont listen to the interweb haha

 

[TSiAWD666]

thank god...

 

[99gst_racer]

Is there enough room for the axles through the damper mounting fork if you move the mounting point down?

I'm pretty sure there's room for .500-.750". Maybe even more for cars that sit very low.

Is suspension travel still an issue with adjustable length shock bodies?

Nope, but it can be with the exceeding popular Koni yellows and anything that doesn't have an adjust length body.

I would like to input some. If you are doing a tubular subframe you should look into replacing the LCA's for a one piece. I would be a hell of an upgrade from all aspects.

I know the searching would be hard but thats not the point I guess.

I've spoken with Andrew about why our stock style dual lower pivot points is more ideal than a 1-pc. I wish I could explain it to you as well as he explained it to me, but my knowledge base of the 2G front suspension is only a fraction of his. Hopefully Andrew can chime in here.

 

[99gst_racer]

Ill elaborate from a drag guys point of view.... Dropping probably 30 lbs per corner in the front. It would be enough for me to buy it. That coupled with wilwood small brakes you're talking damn near 100 lbs off the front of the car where our weight kills us the most.

Those are some heavily exagerated numbers there. The OEM LCA and compression arm together weigh 13.6#. And the weight savings of a small Wilwood brake kit is closer to 7# per corner.

What is the ballpark time frame for this?

The prototype will be finished within a week of starting.

Paul, I will spend countless hours on the phone with you if needed to help in any way I can with this project. You know how to reach me. Please dont listen to the interweb haha

Thanks, man. I'll give you a call when we get started.

 

[jrs187]

i thought you were going to start on 1g rear subframes this winter?

 

[gixxerdrew]

I've spoken with Andrew about why our stock style dual lower pivot points is more ideal than a 1-pc. I wish I could explain it to you as well as he explained it to me, but my knowledge base of the 2G front suspension is only a fraction of his. Hopefully Andrew can chime in here.

I try to run away from these kind of discussions but basically its creating a virtual steering axis further outboard and it improves steering feedback and helps torque steer. Its a great system and way superior to a front strut setup like the EVO.

The downside of our configuration in my mind is the tall spindles interference with other things, tire clearance, etc and the high weight of our uprights.

I think the big downfall of our cars for handling compared to the newer cars is the differential options. If we have a drivetrain strong enough to take the power and proper differential setups the DSM is by far a superior platform to evo. Our aerodynamics are not even in the same ballpark evo stuff is just awful drag wise. Our suspension in concept is superior. Its just the way they built it all so crazy heavy that is the problem. Working on solutions for this stuff but you know I never have much money to spend on my car anymore. I decided to chase a motorsport career and move overseas.

 

[rr06rs]

Hey Paul, any chance you'll offer a discount or package deal for the front and rear subframes?

 

[dexterholland04]

Hey Paul, any chance you'll offer a discount or package deal for the front and rear subframes?

^This!

 

[snowborder714]

As I stated numerous times in his rear crossmember thread, NO PRICING CAN BE DISCUSSED in the thread. This thread is for design talk and build info/pictures. If at any point a thought crosses your mind in regards to availability, pricing, package deals, etc., please send him a PM.

Hopefully since I made the text nice and bold, this will be the only time I have to state it in this thread. But somehow I doubt it...

 

[EC17PSE]

I will also be keeping an eye on this! ive been waiting for you to offer 2G k-members since you started the 1g members.

hope all goes well

 

[jdsoza]

Paul, how are you going to handle the compression/anti dive arm? Is there a way to ream the knuckle and allow geometry correction with a different ball joint? I believe we can build tishis car to handle but it needs lots more R&D. I get why people are asking about a strut suspension. Look at the gst impreza. It can smoke almost any car around a track

 

[gixxerdrew]

Scorch racing, fastest car in Japan right now, he's using struts now too, that doesn't mean anything. He wants me to design him a wishbone susp someday so his car can handle better. Mike at GST would probably tell you the same thing.

Struts are an inferior design. You can do well with inferior designs, no doubt about it. My car is FWD and I usually beat all the RWDs but that doesn't mean its better.

 

[greengoblin]

Paul, how are you going to handle the compression/anti dive arm? Is there a way to ream the knuckle and allow geometry correction with a different ball joint? I believe we can build tishis car to handle but it needs lots more R&D. I get why people are asking about a strut suspension. Look at the gst impreza. It can smoke almost any car around a track

The the anti dive geometry. There a several ways to do this. Either arms with longer ball joint stalks or a knuckle with the out board points moved down further. Both of these options are currently being developed. They should be out befor to long. The arms are the cheapest solution but a light weight knuckle/up right is a big win since it reduces weight in all the right places.

 

[99gst_racer]

Just a heads up on this project; all bracketry is produced (huge thanks to Craig [calan] for helping with the bracketry) and we're scheduled to build this the week of the 15th. I'll be updating daily when the time comes.

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[2gdanny]

iill take one of each
,

no i really want one of each

 

[TSiAWD666]

Did you decide on a rack yet?

 

[born2tune]

I am very interested in the manufacturing design of this. I like people who dare to try! cant wait to see the results, keep up the good work guys!

 

[99gst_racer]

Did you decide on a rack yet?

I should be able to use just about anything that is long enough. The prototype will either use an OE rack or a Mustang 2 rack. But if we go with the Mustang 2 rack, I'd have to special order it with extended inner tie rods to get the length proper (They are about 6" narrower than our OE rack). I'll leave the rack option up to John on this build, but I'm open to suggestions from you road race guys on steering racks for any subsequent k-member builds.

 

[arrowhead]

Mustang rack, readily available, cheap, parts everywhere, proven, it can be updated, all kinds of. ratios.

 

[99gst_racer]

Anyone want to see some pics?


Mustang II 15:1 manual rack VS. OE rack:

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Brackets for the compression arms:

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In the jig:

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Tacked up and out of the jig:

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We're getting ready to mock it up on the car right now to fit the rack in place. Then I'll be assembly welding it later today.

What do you guys think of it?

 

[11Banger]

I'll be sending you a PM in a minute. Not 2g related so I thought it would be easier to link you to things & asked questions VIA message.

 

[turbosax2]

How beefy are the lateral arm mounts? It looks like they might be boxed in some, but it's hard to tell.

 

[eclipsh]

It looks great. Will you be adding additional gussets on the compression arm brackets or a bolt-in cross brace on the bottom to tie the front together? I wish I had the skill and tools to build things like this. Someday...

 

[greengoblin]

How beefy are the lateral arm mounts? It looks like they might be boxed in some, but it's hard to tell.

They look to be made from a least 10ga. This unit is being built for a drag car. I suspect there will be some differences between this unit and one built for road racing. Killer work so far. Lets see some mock up picks and the rack installed.

 

[DSM_PWR]

Badass work