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1G DSM front k-member and tubular control arms

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Hi Guys,

Here is the long awaited update. I have my own pretty much done. I did made a few changes to the original design. I replaced the swage tubes with thicker 1" 0.095 wall chromoy tubes. I also used two tabs and a heim joint instead of the clevis. It's a double sheer now and it is stronger. I also made the whole top portion of it from 1.25" 0.083 chromoly. Before it was a combination of 1.625 and 1.25" tubing. I also redid the steering rack mount, so it is modular and you can move it up and down with different length spacers to address bump steer a little better. It is all tacked together and I need to redo the jig, so that I can replicate it.

This thing is becoming epic for me. Everytime I start working on it or plan on working on it, something else comes up and it ends up on the back burner. I will make an effort to get back to it in the next couple of weeks and finish it up. Once it is all done, I will post pictures for review and criticism and them we can move on to making these.

One member here mentioned that 500-600 dollar would be and OK price for it. That is way too cheap, for the amount of time it takes to make one. The 3/4 PFTE Rod ends are about $40 a piece. That is more than $200 in rod ends alone.

I have no idea on the final price yet. It takes a lot of time to make one. I will try to make it as affordable as possible :D
 
500-600 is would just be stupid. Polk's where $2000 IIRC not that I hope they are that expensive but people have to understand chassis work is not cheap.
 
I wouldn't mind dropping some more weight off the car with this. Waiting to hear a release date and price.
 
I wont say what I would be willing to pay for this LOL. But I think the people who are really serious wont have a problem coming up with the cash for it.
 
500-600 is would just be stupid. Polk's where $2000 IIRC not that I hope they are that expensive but people have to understand chassis work is not cheap.

Yea but how many people bought 2k k's? I remember a guy selling some for 1200 and people complained about the price.

Honestly i was hoping for a more simple k, like what the mustang guys have. Drop some weight, option to use factory control arms, more engine bay room, etc.

Here's a k for $250, now that would sell.
QA1 Mustang Tubular K-Member (96-04 V8) at AmericanMuscle.com - Free Shipping!

I think if this k turns out to be 1k and above its going to sell maybe 2 or 3 like that last guys did. Flame away but i guarantee this is what everyone is thinking.
 
I would try anywhere from 700-900.

Pricing does take a huge affect on people buying, of course. Anything about $1,000 a lot of people won't be interested anymore. Some will just live with the stock K member. Very few will sell at anything over $1,000 in my mind.
 
If you guys only realized how much time and money it takes to make stuff like this when its not mass produced in China. Hypothetical question for you guys, if something costs $500 to produce and 16hrs to make what would you guys charge for the end product? Would you sell it for $750? That's 16hrs of your private life after you get home from working all day. I'm not saying this is what Vassil has in it, just a question to see what you guys think should be charged for something.
 
If you guys only realized how much time and money it takes to make stuff like this when its not mass produced in China. Hypothetical question for you guys, if something costs $500 to produce and 16hrs to make what would you guys charge for the end product? Would you sell it for $750? That's 16hrs of your private life after you get home from working all day. I'm not saying this is what Vassil has in it, just a question to see what you guys think should be charged for something.
DSMers want it cheap - they don't care about the details or how much it costs to make. If it can't be made cheap then they won't buy it, end of story. And that's essentially why there are fewer quality options available and why more and more parts will be discontinued and will need to be built custom. At some point owning a DSM will require you to be a good fabricator if you want quality parts. That's already the case now for some parts (like tubular control arms and k-members). We'll never get these parts mass produced.

I think if Vassil can get this produced and available for about $900-1100, it would be worth it. It may not sell as many as if it was priced at $700, but it's not like making it a couple hundred cheaper will make it sell in high quantities. Give everyone the options they want (road racers and drag racers) and they'll sell.
 
That's 16hrs of your private life after you get home from working all day.

Maybe for the very first one. After a jig is set up and the material is cut i bet you could weld a couple an hour.

Also whats the need for all the rod ends? $200 is rod ends seems excessive. Does the design require it? Why not a solid piece like the mustang k?

Im not knocking the design, just seriously interested. If its in the control arms, id hope provisions would be made to accept stock control arms as well, like most other aftermarket k members do. The 2lbs saved in control arm weight wouldnt be worth the extra $400+ in cost to most.

DSMers want it cheap - they don't care about the details or how much it costs to make. If it can't be made cheap then they won't buy it, end of story. And that's essentially why there are fewer quality options available and why more and more parts will be discontinued and will need to be built custom. At some point owning a DSM will require you to be a good fabricator if you want quality parts. That's already the case now for some parts (like tubular control arms and k-members). We'll never get these parts mass produced.

Well ofcourse. These cars are worth less then this k member will cost. These arent high end sports cars. More a budget street car. Cheap car should have cheap parts, wouldnt make much sense otherwise. I mean hell you can get an aftermarket K-Member, Upper and Lower A-Arms, Drop Spindles and Billet Aluminum Steering Arms for a c5/c6 vette for $2300. That would dominate anything you could do to a dsm on a road course.


I think if Vassil can get this produced and available for about $900-1100, it would be worth it. It may not sell as many as if it was priced at $700, but it's not like making it a couple hundred cheaper will make it sell in high quantities. Give everyone the options they want (road racers and drag racers) and they'll sell.

Well maybe i could request a "street" version then. Solid piece, accepts oem control arms, oem rack. No frills design. Priced for the average dsm'er.
 
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Well ofcourse. These cars are worth less then this k member will cost. These arent high end sports cars. More a budget street car. Cheap car should have cheap parts, wouldnt make much sense otherwise. I mean hell you can get an aftermarket K-Member, Upper and Lower A-Arms, Drop Spindles and Billet Aluminum Steering Arms for a c5/c6 vette for $2300. That would dominate anything you could do to a dsm on a road course.
Fox body Mustangs aren't high end sports cars, they're budget builds, and can be had for similar prices to DSMs yet look at the tubular pieces you can get for those. Cheap cars will only have cheap parts if they can be sold in volume. We simply don't have enough buyers to warrant vendors taking the risk to get large runs of tubular products made. The community has a reputation of being cheap, especially in terms of suspension and chassis parts, and that will always work against us.
 
Well maybe i could request a "street" version then. Solid piece, accepts oem control arms, oem rack. No frills design. Priced for the average dsm'er.
The options needed from a road racing or drag racing perspective doesn't have to be too far off from a street version. The price differences wouldn't be much.
 
Fox body Mustangs aren't high end sports cars, they're budget builds, and can be had for similar prices to DSMs yet look at the tubular pieces you can get for those.

Exactly my point. Cheap car and has k's for $200 on up.


Cheap cars will only have cheap parts if they can be sold in volume. We simply don't have enough buyers to warrant vendors taking the risk to get large runs of tubular products made. The community has a reputation of being cheap, especially in terms of suspension and chassis parts, and that will always work against us.

Yea its too bad we dont have the options alot of other cars have.

The options needed from a road racing or drag racing perspective doesn't have to be too far off from a street version. The price differences wouldn't be much.

What about the option for using factory control arms? If that knocks off $200 in rod ends and whatever for other materials and labor, that should help with the price a bit huh?


I bring all this up because it was all argued about in the last k member thread. That as far as i know only sold 2-3.

8ft of 4130 tube can be had for $50, and once the jig is set up you can probably weld 2 or 3 an hour, for the k itself. So even at $100/hr labor i dont see where the cost is.

The control arms look like they would take some time to assemble.

Again, im not dissing the project. Just that there was tons of interest in the other kmember thread and initially on this one untill a price tag of over 1k was announced on both. At that price i only see the hardcore guys interested and im sure they are more then able to make their own.
 
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We don't have the options available that other cars have because we don't have the owners of our cars spending the money in the market like those cars do. It's that simple. If our market was stronger more vendors would make the investment.

I think these k-members should be designed for the OEM control arms. Make one design that can be optioned for all applications (street, drag race, road race, rally, etc). The road race version could have a few extra supports. The drag race version could have fewer. Then we can get control arms made separately - where we can have all the adjustment points we need. It makes the most sense to have one design that can have options added/deleted for each of the major applications.
 
Those cheap K's are notorious for cracking on street cars, even those street cars that don't see a lot of use.
 
We don't have the options available that other cars have because we don't have the owners of our cars spending the money in the market like those cars do. It's that simple. If our market was stronger more vendors would make the investment.

I think these k-members should be designed for the OEM control arms. Make one design that can be optioned for all applications (street, drag race, road race, rally, etc). The road race version could have a few extra supports. The drag race version could have fewer. Then we can get control arms made separately - where we can have all the adjustment points we need. It makes the most sense to have one design that can have options added/deleted for each of the major applications.

I agree. Custom fabbed pieces are always more expensive because of the labor. If guys want cheap parts in abundance they chose the wrong car. If a guy is willing to fab up something that works, and no one else makes it, and you want, it is going to cost more. There is no way around it.
 
What about the option for using factory control arms? If that knocks off $200 in rod ends and whatever for other materials and labor, that should help with the price a bit huh?

I think these k-members should be designed for the OEM control arms. Make one design that can be optioned for all applications (street, drag race, road race, rally, etc). The road race version could have a few extra supports. The drag race version could have fewer. Then we can get control arms made separately - where we can have all the adjustment points we need. It makes the most sense to have one design that can have options added/deleted for each of the major applications.

Yea factory control arms would be great at this point. I love this idea
 
is this still going to happen? seems like it might be a lost cause.......
 
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