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2G Tubular front k-member build - share ideas!

99gst_racer

Moderator
11,796
975
Apr 5, 2003
Coloma, Michigan
With a much needed shove to get started (thanks Kevin :) ), I'm finally beginning work on this project. I figured it's time to start a thread to share some ideas of what I have in mind and to gather input from you guys.

I'm going to build it over at Force Engineering with the help of John and Tyler and we'll be test fitting it on John's 2G Talon. And being that John's car is a drag car, this one won't have sway bar mounts, but I plan to design it so that they would be easily incorporated.

LCA pickups: It will have pick-ups raised 3/4". won;t be usinga dual pattern bracket like I used on the rear subframe build for two reasons: the bracket won't work using 3/4" holes spaced out at 3/4" from centers, and there's not very much room to use a large bracket due to CV shaft clearances.

Arms: I plan to build an adjustable length LCA to go with it but will initially build the k-member to incorporate the OEM compression arm. The LCAs can also feature a dropped shock mount to give more suspension travel. I plan to design a trick bearing to use on the inboard end of an aftermarket compression arm, but that isn't something I'll be able to work on until sometime down the road.

Steering rack: I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the rack yet. It's probably going to either be OEM 2G or aftermarket (probably not going to be OE from another make/model). I'd like to source something from Flaming River that offers a manual and power option that shares the exact same footprint. I'll research this more tomorrow. I beieve the OEM rack is about 49" long from end to end of the inner tie rod ends. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


All mounting points and the roll stop will be solid aluminum just like I did on the rear subframe. I just need to get the brackets drawn up and laser cut at the fab shop. Then we'll be starting on it right away. As always, I welcome any input and ideas.
 

viperlp01

Proven Member
2,525
70
Oct 9, 2006
Kalamazoo, Michigan
Stoked to be the test bunny. I love getting all the one off prototypes.
 

greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,574
389
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
Super glad to see this thread started. I'll be watching it like a hawk and Hopefully have some input for you .:rocks:


Is there enough room for the axles through the damper mounting fork if you move the mounting point down?

Also if for some reason you want to try and use the evo rack I have one laying on the floor here. It would however require spacers to move the inner tie rods out further. It quit a bit shorter than the oem unit. Sounds like you know all that already.
 

dexterholland04

Proven Member
756
104
Jan 1, 2007
Rush, New_York
I'm looking forward to seeing what happens! Paul, send me an email at some point, I still had some unanswered questions! Can't wait!
 

born2tune

Proven Member
918
29
Dec 30, 2009
clarksville, Tennessee
I would like to input some. If you are doing a tubular subframe you should look into replacing the LCA's for a one piece. I would be a hell of an upgrade from all aspects.

I know the searching would be hard but thats not the point I guess.
 

95grntsi

Proven Member
54
0
Sep 22, 2005
wheaton, Illinois
Something the AutoX guys may not be interested in, but I have tossed around the idea of converting to a macpherson strut setup using the 1g or Evo knuckles or some other aftermarket variant. That would shed some more weight and set up nicely on a drag car.
 

greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,574
389
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
I would like to input some. If you are doing a tubular subframe you should look into replacing the LCA's for a one piece. I would be a hell of an upgrade from all aspects.

I know the searching would be hard but thats not the point I guess.

That would be a down grade all the way around from a handling perspective.
 

greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,574
389
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
Something the AutoX guys may not be interested in, but I have tossed around the idea of converting to a macpherson strut setup using the 1g or Evo knuckles or some other aftermarket variant. That would shed some more weight and set up nicely on a drag car.

From drag perspective a billet hub setup "like" Magnus would be the way to go at that point.
 

dsmornothing

Probationary Member
605
5
Jul 23, 2009
Ishpeming, Michigan
What if you were to use a 1g knuckle in this design instead of the 2g? Should drop considerable weight and make things easier.
 

greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,574
389
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
before I say anything else...
Where is the research on your statement?


Suspension modeling preformed by Andrew Brilliant and hours of talking to him an others about 2g suspension.

Our cars have a really advanced suspension setup that really just needs to be tweaked some.

Why do you think a single arm would be better? I'm always interested to learn maybe you know some thing I don't. Please elaborate. :thumb:
 

dsmornothing

Probationary Member
605
5
Jul 23, 2009
Ishpeming, Michigan
Why do you think a single arm would be better? I'm always interested to learn maybe you know some thing I don't. Please elaborate. :thumb:

Ill elaborate from a drag guys point of view.... Dropping probably 30 lbs per corner in the front. It would be enough for me to buy it. That coupled with wilwood small brakes you're talking damn near 100 lbs off the front of the car where our weight kills us the most.
 

greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,574
389
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
Ill elaborate from a drag guys point of view.... Dropping probably 30 lbs per corner in the front. It would be enough for me to buy it. That coupled with wilwood small brakes you're talking damn near 100 lbs off the front of the car where our weight kills us the most.

I completely understand this but as I mentioned early this would be approaching the cost of the Magnus billet hubs and still weigh more?

The same is all true for a road coarse car. Even more so.
 

dsmornothing

Probationary Member
605
5
Jul 23, 2009
Ishpeming, Michigan
I completely understand this but as I mentioned early this would be approaching the cost of the Magnus billet hubs and still weigh more?

The same is all true for a road coarse car. Even more so.

Who says they have to be billet? There is enough part outs that you could get a half dozen sets for pretty cheap. How about evo knuckles aren't they similar to the 1g? Can probably get them brand new from mitsu. I just think it would simplify a whole lot. Expensive yes but the guys who are buying these are expecting to spend some money....

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I saw on mike wholers car that he had to make a- arms to use the Magnus hubs. Build a subframe that would drop nearly 100 lbs off the front if not more and you could sell them for 2500 a pop to the right people.
 

born2tune

Proven Member
918
29
Dec 30, 2009
clarksville, Tennessee
A one piece LCA is much stiffer and allows less geometry play than a dual lower setup in the 2G.
so we can understand why the 2g suspension is inferior I will use an example of a 2g cornering hard to the right, in this situation the resistance will pull the tire towards the least resistant path by using as leverage the least resistant parts, which is returning it to the left by using the huge play in the multiple independent arms.
only in the lower portion there are 5 points of movement, which are 3 bushings and 2 tie rods. consequently the play on both sides will be so different it throws your handling out the door.

2G=both tie rods provide full pivot movements, and the 3 bushings provide longitudinal, lateral and vertical play independently. it increases more because the 2 independent arms are connected the hub arm which is connected to another arm with 2 bushings and another tie rod. its obvious that this much play translates as negative handling performance.

Im going to use examples of some known performance vehicles Lower Control Arms as references and you can ask the manufacturer why none of these are 2 piece LCA's. BTW this 2g "awesome" suspension is found only on chrysler sebring, dodge avenger and the galant. NOT performance cars.
let me clarify this, the galant is somewhat of a performance vehicle but doesnt change the fact that its suspension is inferior as well. I love my DSM but I am also realistic, I compare the vehicle from real world performance setups and aspects.

anyways here are some pics of LCA off performance cars .

EDIT/addition: so far I have found that the mazda 6 and honda accord use a very similar double wishbone suspension as the 2G.
 

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