Resolved 2G No spark no start

[Turbodhi]

Hey guys I'm having some trouble diagnosing whats causing me to not have spark. Compression is ok ~150 across. Plugs are brand new and gapped. Coils we're testing bad and replaced. Used one of those power probes and found power at the plug for my ignition module but not after so I replaced it and still nothing.

Any ideas before I just take it to a mechanic?

 

[jakk220]

Is the fuel pump kicking on? How did you test for spark? Are you getting power after the ignition module now that you replaced it?

 

[92AWDHX40]

Check the coil, and ecu , all ignition components.

 

[Bo0sTeD 4G63]

Do you have spark in any of the spark plugs?

 

[Turbodhi]

Is the fuel pump kicking on? How did you test for spark? Are you getting power after the ignition module now that you replaced it?

Fuel pump is brand new, I thought that was the problem the night it happened and replaced it. I layed the spark plugs on the valve cover and watched for arcs. Also had my buddy watch them in case I couldn't see them. I haven't checked for power after the module since replacing it. But it's brand new and my car still won't start.

 

[Turbo2g]

You will not get spark if there is a failure in the crank sensor circuit. If the computer doesn't see input, it doesn't know when to fire the coils, so it wont fire them. Just something else for you to check.

Guys, use your heads! I get customers in all the time with a bunch of brand new parts installed until they gave up and brought it in for a diagnosis. What would cause a no spark across all cylinders? You're not going to have 4 plugs go bad at once. Its not going to be 4 wires. Its not going to be two separate coil packs completely dying at once. I never suspect ECM first. It has inputs and outputs. Start with them. Id have looked first to the ignition module. If it wasn't getting signal, I'd move then to why that is. The most common cause would be crank sensor. See if it's giving a good signal to the ECM. If it is, then you "might" have a problem in the ECM, but some cars require a signal from even the ECT sensor to start. So you find the inputs that are needed for spark to occur, and check those for power, ground, signal, good connections, wiring, etc.

 

[Turbodhi]

Already checked and replaced the coils, new plugs, new ignition module, ECU was refurbished by ecm link themselves about 6 months ago.

Check the coil, and ecu , all ignition components.

 

[Turbodhi]

You will not get spark if there is a failure in the crank sensor circuit. If the computer doesn't see input, it doesn't know when to fire the coils, so it wont fire them. Just something else for you to check.

Guys, use your heads! I get customers in all the time with a bunch of brand new parts installed until they gave up and brought it in for a diagnosis. What would cause a no spark across all cylinders? You're not going to have 4 plugs go bad at once. Its not going to be 4 wires. Its not going to be two separate coil packs completely dying at once.

I never suspect ECM first. It has inputs and outputs. Start with them. Id have looked first to the ignition module. If it wasn't getting signal, I'd move then to why that is. The most common cause would be crank sensor. See if it's giving a good signal to the ECM. If it is, then you "might" have a problem in the ECM, but some cars require a signal from even the ECT sensor to start. So you find the inputs that are needed for spark to occur, and check those for power, ground, signal, good connections, wiring, etc.

Thank you! That's the advice I'm looking for! I'm not a trained mechanic so my diagnosis skills are lacking I will admit. I will certainly check it out when I get home from work.

 

[randman2011]

If you've got a CEL, the crankshaft position sensor is a very real possibility. I was chasing down other stuff until I finally got a hold of my OBDII reader which gave me that code. If you don't already have one, a Bluetooth OBDII reader is a very good investment. They're cheap and the free version of the Torque app will let you view DTCs.

I guess since you already have ECMLink it's a bit redundant for you. But checking those DTCs (even if the light isn't illuminated) should always be your first step in troubleshooting.

P0335 is the sensor fault code. If the sensor is indeed faulty in some way, the DTC will be set whenever the engine is cranked.

 

[jakk220]

Fuel pump is brand new, I thought that was the problem the night it happened and replaced it. I layed the spark plugs on the valve cover and watched for arcs. Also had my buddy watch them in case I couldn't see them. I haven't checked for power after the module since replacing it. But it's brand new and my car still won't start.

The fuel pump being new does not mean that you are getting power to the pump. It narrows it down a whole lot if you are not getting fuel or spark.

So have you tested to make sure you are getting fuel to the rail or power to the fuel pump?

When you key on the ignition, does your check engine light turn on for 5 seconds, and then turn off? This will verify if you are getting power to the ECU or not. Check these few things and report back.

You will not get spark if there is a failure in the crank sensor circuit. If the computer doesn't see input, it doesn't know when to fire the coils, so it wont fire them. Just something else for you to check.

Guys, use your heads! I get customers in all the time with a bunch of brand new parts installed until they gave up and brought it in for a diagnosis. What would cause a no spark across all cylinders? You're not going to have 4 plugs go bad at once. Its not going to be 4 wires. Its not going to be two separate coil packs completely dying at once. I never suspect ECM first. It has inputs and outputs. Start with them. Id have looked first to the ignition module. If it wasn't getting signal, I'd move then to why that is. The most common cause would be crank sensor. See if it's giving a good signal to the ECM. If it is, then you "might" have a problem in the ECM, but some cars require a signal from even the ECT sensor to start. So you find the inputs that are needed for spark to occur, and check those for power, ground, signal, good connections, wiring, etc.

You are not wrong, but before he starts chasing ignition components, he should first know that he has fuel. Which he has not yet stated. You should always check both on a no start condition. There are more basic checks that he needs to do first which will more easily identify where to start looking.

 

[Turbodhi]

The fuel pump being new does not mean that you are getting power to the pump. It narrows it down a whole lot if you are not getting fuel or spark.

So have you tested to make sure you are getting fuel to the rail or power to the fuel pump?

When you key on the ignition, does your check engine light turn on for 5 seconds, and then turn off? This will verify if you are getting power to the ECU or not. Check these few things and report back.

You are not wrong, but before he starts chasing ignition components, he should first know that he has fuel. Which he has not yet stated. You should always check both on a no start condition. There are more basic checks that he needs to do first which will more easily identify where to start looking.

Yes I checked the fuel system when I installed the pump to make sure it is working, which it is. Yes my CEL cycles when attempting to start. The engine cranks but does not turn over. And you can see what I've check for ignition in my initial post.

 

[jakk220]

Ok. My next question is did you check if your injectors firing or just that the fuel pump is kicking on? A noid light comes in handy here. At this point I would be suspecting the cam angle sensor

 

[Turbodhi]

Ok fellas I just got home from work and checked the car out again. I found the blue wire (signal I think) had been cut. I hooked up a temporary jumper wire to see if that might work. Still nothing. As soon as I get a second pair of hands I'll check the injectors.

Photo below

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[jakk220]

Photo below

There's your issue. You need to fix that wire. It's for the crankshaft position sensor. Hooking temporary power to it will do nothing to help the car start. That is a signal wire. Fix it and I bet it fixes your issue.

Edit: Unless you mean jumper wire as in you bridged the broken parts on the wire. In that case, I would repair it fully, try again, and then report back.

 

[Turbodhi]

I bridged it to try to move my car to the garage. It didn't start. Found ad gas soldering iron and soldered it. Still won't start. I'm not sure if the wire might have grounded out and fried something.

 

[motomattx]

Cam sensor could have went out, crank sensor could have the trigger plate rubbing against it, check for any blown fuses in both fuse box's, not sure if you said you have ground and 5v at your cam and crank sensors or not but that is one of the first things to check.

 

[Turbodhi]

It's late here and I spent all day doing an emergency repair on my buddy's xterrXso I'll have to check tomorrow.

 

[Turbodhi]

ok guys. I probed the connectors for the crank and cam sensors. They both have 5v and 12v. I stuck a pin in the back of the crank sensor so I could monitor it while it was plugged in. I hooked it up to an analog multimeter to see if the needle moves while the engine cranks (indicating a signal was coming from the crank signal as the trigger plate passes through the sensor) and the needle did not move at all. I believe my sensor is bad and am now waiting for a replacement to come into the local oreillys.

 

[Turbodhi]

Pulled the crankshaft position sensor and noticed there was a chunk missing from it. Replaced it with a fresh one and it starts! But now there is a loud ticking matching the idle of the car. I'm concerned that I might have skipped time. I will be verifying that tommorow. If it isn't timing then it's probably one of the plastic clips touching something. I will have to check it out tomorrow after I get home from work. I will post an update with what I find.

 

[jakk220]

Pulled the crankshaft position sensor and noticed there was a chunk missing from it. Replaced it with a fresh one and it starts! But now there is a loud ticking matching the idle of the car. I'm concerned that I might have skipped time. I will be verifying that tommorow. If it isn't timing then it's probably one of the plastic clips touching something. I will have to check it out tomorrow after I get home from work. I will post an update with what I find.

Glad you found the problem. Are you 100% positive that the engine was getting fuel? I feel like with the sensor being demolished like that, that it would not have been giving fuel either.

 

[pauleyman]

Pulled the crankshaft position sensor and noticed there was a chunk missing from it. Replaced it with a fresh one and it starts! But now there is a loud ticking matching the idle of the car. I'm concerned that I might have skipped time.

Chunk missing? Check the trigger plate. If it's damaged replace it and if possible find out why they hit. Check crank end play. The noise you hear could be your trigger plate destroying your new sensor.

 

[Turbodhi]

Glad you found the problem. Are you 100% positive that the engine was getting fuel? I feel like with the sensor being demolished like that, that it would not have been giving fuel either.

Yeah it's getting fuel.

Chunk missing? Check the trigger plate. If it's damaged replace it and if possible find out why they hit. Check crank end play. The noise you hear could be your trigger plate destroying your new sensor.

Trigger plate didn't look that bad but I'm going to double check it after work today. I'm also wondering if it's one of the plastic clips that's supposed to hold the sensor wire still.

 

[chrysler kid]

Trigger plate didn't look that bad but I'm going to double check it after work today. I'm also wondering if it's one of the plastic clips that's supposed to hold the sensor wire still.

Your best case situation is the trigger plate was installed backwards. So you would need to pull the timing belt anyways

Worst case situation is crank walk is eating your crank sensors and the noise you're hearing is your bottom end slipping around in the block

 

[Turbodhi]

If it was installed backwards, my timing would have been off. But I'm sure it's not as bad as the worst case scenario. That would sound like a ball peen hammer inside.

 

[chrysler kid]

If it was installed backwards, my timing would have been off. But I'm sure it's not as bad as the worst case scenario. That would sound like a ball peen hammer inside.

Nope. "People" who ask for advice here do it all the time. Happened 3 times last year on this forum.

A hammering noise down there isn't a good sign. I saw a gst last week with a destroyed balance shaft bearing that sounded exactly like that. Though to be fair that car had the timing belt tension over tightened with the oil pump grenading first