2G 2G MAS vs. GM MAF & Translator

[Jimmer307]

Alright, so my 2g Mas just went kaput on me and now i am throwing a code. I know i need a new air flow sensor, but which one should i choose (GM MAFT or another 2g MAS). I have a GMMAFT setup available for $120 if i want it, but i do not know that much about the setup. I have read numberous threads on the MAFT setup, but there is just sooo much false information. Currently my car has full exhaust, intake, IC Pipe (Upper & Lower), and a BOV (recirc).
I have plans of running around 300-400 hp (Obviously im a long way), so is it possible to run the GM setup with a nearly stock setup and tune it later on when i start creating serious HP?
And if so, does anyone know the stock settings?
BTW: IM not some ricer that wants to vent, i want a pull through setup (recirc)

Thanks in advance, and i will keep SEARCHING for the answer

 

[indhp94]

gm mafs are bad ass little spendy for the maft but then you could let that bov screem.

 

[JusMX141]

gm mafs are bad ass little spendy for the maft but then you could let that bov screem.

Right....because that's all they're good for.



Since 90% of us don't care about what how loud our blow off valve is, just find yourself a good used 2G MAS or even an Evo 8/9 (399) MAS if you'd like to upgrade. The Evo MAS uses a different plug, although the wiring is arranged the same fashion so making a harness is simple if you have a harness from an Evo or a host of other cars:

01-04 Chrysler Sebring Coupe
02-04 Dodge Stratus Coupe
00-02 Eclipse
99-03 Montero Sport 3.0
03 Outlander
99-03 Galant

The outlet of the Evo MAS is 3" round, so an oval 2G intake will not fit. Not sure of your current intake setup, but if you spent lots of money for a nice oval hard intake for your car, you may want to stick with a 2G MAS.

A complete Evo MAS setup would appear like this:

 

[JusMX141]

Here's a lead on a nice used 2G (609) MAS from a vendor:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/ven...take-2g-maf-filter-adapter-both-like-new.html

 

[19BLACKGST98]

If you never plan on running over 400whp then you will never need to upgrade from the 2g mass. They shouldnt be to hard to find and shouldnt cost very much. I gave one to a kid with a 1g just last month.

 

[dsm-onster]

Justin, he has no way to tune that evo maf . But a great suggestion. If he gets an safc, he's gold.

I agree that you should just swap in a known good 2g maf and be on your way. The Maft typically needs to be calibrated/tuned when it's installed. A 2g maf will bolt in and your on your way. When you're ready to reach 400whp, the maft will allow rudimentary tuning and allow you to upgrade to 650cc injectors (as far as I would go with gasoline using just a maft or safc to tune), and will be able to meter that much airflow. But the 2g maf can meter that much airflow too. The MAft is a good upgrade to 1g guys because their maf cannot meter more than 31-32lb/min with out running into some real issues. If you get your 2g maf now, it won't need any calibration now. And when you're ready for your goal, you can pickup a used safc for the same price as your deal on the maft and have much more tuing resolution throughout the rpm range.

 

[JusMX141]

Justin, he has no way to tune that evo maf

Good call, Matt. I didn't realize the Evo MAS would require much compensation over a 2G MAS....at least not as much as going from a 1G MAS to a 2G MAS.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I have a maft set up, cheap off ebay, never a problem with it, i wanted to upgrade from my stock one. I had 450cc no problems now i run 560cc injectors, with no problems. My opionon with my car love it.

 

[my98gsx]

Go GM!!! there are a few mods that i did to my car that i love, and this is one of them. Ive had a translator in my gsx for 3 years now and not only does it clear up the engine bay and open up the intake side of your turbo, but the translator is a great tool.

Prior to getting dsmlink i ran a MAF and an AFCII. I was running 850cc injectors in my car with no problems. I set the translator to the "base settings" for the injectors, and fine tuned my afrs with my AFC. ( i went 12.07 on this setup - not too bad )

Good luck

 

[MY1GDSM]

I'm Surprised that there is that many people that use (or have used) a SAFC with MAFT. ... And that more people Don't know about the MAF-t GEN 2...
FULL THROTTLE SPEED - Item Description Page
ALOT more options as far as Tuning you can adjust the fuel +/- 60% in 1/2% steps across 14 RPM bands in 3 different load areas. Also it doesn't have the consitincy problems the first one did where Your Base settings were not realy your base settings.You can use differant MAF's besides the GM There's a huge list in the setup(including the EVO maf) and Works on A TON of Cars O ya plus the Wideband tracking and its only about $50 more than the OLD MAF-t

 

[rich3389]

I'm Surprised that there is that many people that use (or have used) a SAFC with MAFT. ... And that more people Don't know about the MAF-t GEN 2...
FULL THROTTLE SPEED - Item Description Page
ALOT more options as far as Tuning you can adjust the fuel +/- 60% in 1/2% steps across 14 RPM bands in 3 different load areas. Also it doesn't have the consitincy problems the first one did where Your Base settings were not realy your base settings.You can use differant MAF's besides the GM There's a huge list in the setup(including the EVO maf) and Works on A TON of Cars O ya plus the Wideband tracking and its only about $50 more than the OLD MAF-t

That looks like a pretty good tuning tool, it says you can set what afr you want and it will automatically adjust the setting to the afr, the only downside of a gm maf is how the weather affects it so much.

 

[turbotemper]

It is a very sensitive MAF for sure.

 

[Jimmer307]

Alright thanks everyone for your responses.
I am leaning towards the GM MAF w/ Translator for the simple fact of tuning. I am not going to run enough hp to justify spending $800-$1000 on a Dsmlink setup, and want tuning capabilities for when i get the e316g and larger injectors.
-However, i am wondering how you tell the difference between the 1st generation Translator & the 2nd generation w/ more tuning capabilities? I am looking at one online and do not want to get the wrong one.
-And can you guys explain the temperature factor? A few of you guys said, when it is in extreme conditions it "acts up."
-Last ?, How do you get it under your glove compartment with the wires so short? i have heard many people do that for convinient tuning capabilities?

Thanks again and i can't wait to learn more

 

[UGOT8UP]

If I was you I would go with a 2g maf and a SAFC. I had the MAF-T gen 2 on my car before I got linked and it suck's trying to tune it, datalog, open hood, turn knob's, close hood and repeat about a dozen times. get the 2g maf and start driving your car now, later get them injectors and big turbo than use that SAFC you got stuck to your dash to tune your car with out ever poping your hood

 

[MY1GDSM]

If I was you I would go with a 2g maf and a SAFC. I had the MAF-T gen 2 on my car before I got linked and it suck's trying to tune it, datalog, open hood, turn knob's, close hood and repeat about a dozen times. get the 2g maf and start driving your car now, later get them injectors and big turbo than use that SAFC you got stuck to your dash to tune your car with out ever poping your hood

If you were opening your hood to make adjustments Then you did'nt have The Maf-t Gen II ...It wires inside the car similar to a SAFC...


Here is a picture of the First MAF-t,The one you plug in under the hood. ...

 

[MY1GDSM]

And Here is a Picture of the MAF-t Gen II As you can see it has a digital display not Knobs .... O and as I said before you can use it on other cars ,also with other Mafs' besides the GM one.

Edit:To the OP Here's a link to the User Manual. Read through it,That should give you a better understanding of what all is involved with Installing it and how it Works If you have any Questions about Feel free to PM me.

http://www.fullthrottletech.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=300&d=1151351064
EDIT: Wrong link the one above is just the Standard Connections
http://www.fullthrottletech.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=303&d=1151351201

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

2g MAS > 3" GM MAFT

 

[MY1GDSM]

2g MAS > 3" GM MAFT

How is that at all Helpful?WTF... SD > 2g mas

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

How is that at all Helpful?WTF... SD > 2g mas

You are right on that one... But this is not about SD this is about 2g MAS VS. GM MAFT

And my comment is helpful because it's my opinion. Gives the OP just one more person's vote on which one is better. To help him make a better decision.

Ok, I'll go into detail as to why I prefer the 2g MAS. I use the 2g MAS because when dealing with the air coming into the engine you want it to be as exact as possible. During open loop operation the ECU looks at the Airflow, IAT, and Baro sensor to determin the MASS of the air coming in. The ECU then determines what load the engine is at and injects fuel accordingly. If any of these parameters are off then the final output of the injectors is skewed from what it should be. What's nice about using the 2g sensor on a 1g is that the code is out there so that I can compensate for the sensor just like it is in the 2g's ECU. That means my airflow signal is correct and accurate and I know that my open loop table will be exact @ WOT.

Now, the 3" GM MAS is a great sensor but is not designed to be used under pressure. It does not have an Intake Temperature sensor built into the sensor. Therefore, when using the fullthrottlespeed's translator they lock the temp to something like 79*. That means any time the intake temperature is NOT 79* your open loop fueling will be skewed. Therefore, meaning you have to tune it for temperature changes. Not Fun...

But you have the option to vent with it... I guess that's cool...

 

[dsm-onster]

Now, the 3" GM MAS is a great sensor but is not designed to be used under pressure. It does not have an Intake Temperature sensor built into the sensor. Therefore, when using the fullthrottlespeed's translator they lock the temp to something like 79*. That means any time the intake temperature is NOT 79* your open loop fueling will be skewed. Therefore, meaning you have to tune it for temperature changes. Not Fun...

This is not true. Yes the translator locks the IAT to 80degrees F, and not only that, it locks the baro to ambient pressure at sea level. But all this is because the gm maf spits out a Mass airflow number not a Volume airflow number. The gm maf internally corrects for changes in temperature and barometric pressure. The dsm ecu calculates massflow based on the volume airflow reading from the Mitsu maf, the Mitsu IAT sensor, and Mitsu baro sensor. The translator receives the massflow reading from the gm sensor, then translates it to the proper volume airflow reading so that coupled to the an 80*F IAT reading and a sealevel baro reading you will have the mass flow calculated in the ecu which will match what the gm sensor sees. The gm maf in drawthrough is VERY accurate.

Now, there IS some speculation that the internal air temperature wire of the GM maf can't change fast enough for the changes seen in a boosted intercooler pipe, or cannot read high enough to read the intercooler pipe charge temperature of some setups.

With all of that said. I still suggest the 2g maf. The gm maf still usually needs SOME calibration in drawthrough. And The 2g maf can meter over 400hp worth of air. It would be a drop in for now. And all you need is a used safc, to be able to tune safely any injector size up to 650s.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Wow, I did not know that. Thanks for the correction. I still think the GM sensor is a PILE for our application.

Why mess with something that is proven to work and put yourself in a tuning nightmare. Stick with the 2g MAS. Now if you're trying to make over 450-500hp I could understand wanting something else. But, by then hopefully you'd go with a full standalone and be running SD.

My suggestion buy a new used 2g sensor. Then save up the money for dsmlink or a chip burner. Skip the SAFC's and the MAFT's because all they do is create problems when trying get the maximum out of the setup.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Jimmer307... IMOA your best bet Regardless of what MAF you want to Run or chose to, The MAF-T GEN II will be the best option for tuning...(Atlest with Not getting off-topic) With it you will have the Option to use the GM Maf and the 2g Maf or an Evo Maf among others as I said before . ...With the SAFC you will not be able to Us a GM Maf if you chose to and there are no options(IN the Setup) for diffarent calibrations for other mafs like the MAF-T Gen II.

 

[e85_4g63]

I vote for getting yourself another 2g MAS as well.

 

[dsm-onster]

You can tune for an evo8 maf which is good for what 60lb/min over (600hp) using an safc.

BTW, you can "hack" the 2g maf so that it will meter 13% more air before becoming choppy and unstable. This will put you at about 48lb/min, enough to break your motor.

However, safc, maft, maft gen2 are all moot, because you need more injector than for what an safc or maf translator can compensate without running into timing advance issues. That will also grenade your motor.

 

[MY1GDSM]

The point your making has been long ago You should know that I was trying not to get off-topic. ...Buy Bring up Burnin' Chips ,Buyin a Keydiver chip or buyin Ecmlink. ...

The op Was Asking if he should buy a NEW 2g MAf Or goto a GM maf...