2G 2G MAS vs. GM MAF & Translator

[Jimmer307]

Alright, so my 2g Mas just went kaput on me and now i am throwing a code. I know i need a new air flow sensor, but which one should i choose (GM MAFT or another 2g MAS). I have a GMMAFT setup available for $120 if i want it, but i do not know that much about the setup. I have read numberous threads on the MAFT setup, but there is just sooo much false information. Currently my car has full exhaust, intake, IC Pipe (Upper & Lower), and a BOV (recirc).
I have plans of running around 300-400 hp (Obviously im a long way), so is it possible to run the GM setup with a nearly stock setup and tune it later on when i start creating serious HP?
And if so, does anyone know the stock settings?
BTW: IM not some ricer that wants to vent, i want a pull through setup (recirc)

Thanks in advance, and i will keep SEARCHING for the answer

 

[buddahboost]

2G maf, you aren't ready yet grasshoppa

 

[toofast82]

2G maf, you aren't ready yet grasshoppa

I agree! you can find a 2g maf for next to nothing, plug it in and not touch anything. The maft will require some fine tuning which should be done with a logger and if you dont have that is another expense. Plus the 2g has the capabilities to handle well in excess of 400whp.

On a side note. I do think the Maft Gen2 is a nice piece for the price and it also has the airflow targeting wideband feature that Pro has. It also has the timing adjustment feature that i think is only for 1g though. Im surprised more people dont use it
Also curious how sure you are it is the maf? what was the code saying? Crankwalk is probably more common than a bad 2g maf unless you got water in it or something

 

[dsm-onster]

The point your making has been long ago You should know that I was trying not to get off-topic. ...Buy Bring up Burnin' Chips ,Buyin a Keydiver chip or buyin Ecmlink. ...

The op Was Asking if he should buy a NEW 2g MAf Or goto a GM maf...

Oops, don't step in the dead equine's dung. The point I made . . . why by the gen 2 when you can but the safc used for much less. You're not understanding the reasoning behind that last sentence:

Buy the stock 2g maf used now. It will bolton and there will be no issues from 'go'. Later just get a used safc. The 2g maf meters more air than what the safc, or the fantabulous maft gen 2 can properly tune. So there is no need to have a tuning tool that will allow different mafs to be used, unless he wants to vent. This is NOT off topic. This exactly why buying a good used 2g maf now is his best option. . . . If he can get a used gen2 maft for the same price as an safc the WOW! go for it. But he still won't need the differences between the two. Even later when he gets to a level where he needs an eprom burn for injectors that will max out the 2g maf, he can upgrade to an evo8 maf, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think jeff can burn a chip for the evo maf. If not he still has the good on safc that IS capable of dualing in the evo8 maf. The evo 8 maf is good for metering the same flow as the gm maf and is much more consistant and less headache is involved.

 

[toofast82]

The point I made . . . why by the gen 2 when you can but the safc used for much less. Buy the stock 2g maf used now. It will bolton and there will be no issues from 'go'. Later just get a used safc. The 2g maf meters more air than what the safc, or the fantabulous maft gen 2 can properly tune. So there is no need to have a tuning tool that will allow different mafs to be used, unless he wants to vent. This is NOT off topic. This exactly why buying a good used 2g maf now is his best option.

I definitely think he should get the 2g maf, but i think gen2 has nice features. My friend has the Pro version on his Grand National with a Lc1 wideband and its wired with the maft. He sets a target AFR and it sets up a tune. Good if your not good at tuning which my friend is not. You can also download the timing adjustment feature for 1g only i believe. Well worth it for a little more than an safc. Also if you decide youd like to put Gm maf later you can as well. Im not sure if it has the datalogging capabilities that Pro has but if it did it would be a really good buy imho!
Im also not saying the OP should buy this now, this is for dsms in general and im not saying this is the best tuning device, i dont use it either.
The OP should just slap a new 2g maf if thats the actual problem and do some reading and decide for himself

 

[dsm-onster]

My only issue with the maft gen2 self tunign feature is that it does NOT take an intelligent person to tune a dsm. You have fuel trims to look at and WOT open loop. You have to have a logger and a wideband for any tuning tool to be successful. The logger will give you all the information you need to EASILY tune. And the 2g maf doesn't need any calibration, altering airflow readings to read accurately. So if you use a 2g maf the self tuning feature becomes a waste. You can look at your wide band and set the tune with the safc just as easy as you can have the maft gen2 do it for you. It's not like the safc will suddenly run lean one day where an o2 tracking solution would kick in and keep you safe. There's no need. And you can get a used safc for $100. That saves $150 for a good logger.

The OP has a 1998. The OP can use evoscan and cable for $130 shipped and have the best logger available work at an incredible sample rate. Infact, since evoscan spits out a %IDC and knock count, for once with a 2g, you can tune for no knock and max out your injectors. No need to even have a wideband to get a great tune. Just keep taking out fuel (adds timing) with the safc until you see knock and back off. Worked great on my brother's 1997 talon.

 

[toofast82]

Im a big fan of the 2g maf and think its more than enough for most setups!
Used Safcs hold their value pretty good. I havent seen a safc2 for under $150 lately. I dont know why though as they should be like $100

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Like I said before if you never plan to go over 400whp (actuall number is closer to 425whp) then get the 2g mass it will be alot less trouble for you. The GM maf was never ment to see boost, that is one of the reasons it is screwie on some peoples cars and not on others. Unfortunetly it was screwie on my car so I had to switch from my blow threw setup and move my GM maf to the Intake pipe. Before it was moved my car needed to be retuned every day . Although now that it is moved into the intake pipe my heart is broken because I cant vent my bov (if I knew how to do the rolling eye smile I would insert it here...)

 

[MY1GDSM]

toofast82
Yes you can Data log The same as the MAF Pro with Tuner Pro RT

And I Agree with you about this being a great tool for DSMs'
Thats more of the point I'm tring to make with bringin up this to begin with The MAF-T has a kind of tarnished record With Tuning or even being Set "Zeroed" out
THIS IS NOT a problem with the GEN II I've used both and I have never had an Issue with the GEN II. ...

Dsm-onster
I don't beleave any body said it "takes an intelligent person to tune a dsm" 1g or 2g for that matter
As far as saving money I'm not sure if you making this puerly about the Cost over a "used" Safc But $150 for a logger? anybody can goto a pawn shop and pick up and old PALM piolt for like $20 and put MMCD on it....And there's extra cost for your Savings on your used SAFC?
I don't beleave That if someone was ever using the Wideband traking Feature it would be a Waste there are plenty of thing that can go wrong that it could save Your As$ from ...

 

[toofast82]

toofast82
Yes you can Data log The same as the MAF Pro with Tuner Pro RT

Tunerpro RT has datalogging features? Im still in the stone age and use the burn1/tunerpro with speed density. I still use a palm/mmcd logger. If RT has logging features, then this will still require Ostrich correct?
I meant Gen2 maybe having the same logging features via serial cable and laptop that Maft Pro has
MAF Translator
MAF Translator
I spoke to someone at Fullthrottle some time ago and he confirmed gen2 having the timing feature via a download on their site. I never asked about the logging
Edit: checked out tunerpro site and seen the datalogging feature which is pretty cool, but im assuming still requires ostrich which is worth every penny for its real time tuning capabilities.
I think i may be bringing this off topic! sorry!

 

[MY1GDSM]

I meant Just loggin of the Maf gen II via Serial cable not of the ECU...But you have alot of info there alone ....this and a quick sample rate
And yes it also has timing control that pro has,... but I'm not sure on how to use it without a Keydiver chip Although I know you can....

 

[toofast82]

Im understanding that youre saying gen2 does have some logging options if you hook the serial to laptop as you would with maftpro?
That would make it a pretty damn good buy for its price if thats the case!
Yeah originally you had to have jeff(keydiver) make a special chip for the timing feature but i was told with the new download you dont need it. Ive never owned gen2 to test it.

 

[dsm-onster]

No it doesn't.

MY1GDSM, this a 2g dsm being discussed here. You can't log %idc and knock count with a 2g ecu unless you use evoscan. It's $130 shipped for the cable and software. Which isn't bad for how advanced it is (solenoid control, ground timing, injector cut on/off, fuel pump ground, etc.). HAving %IDC and knock count logged allows one to get a good tune with out having to buy and use a wideband. So maft gen2, wideband, typical terrible logger; or safc, and evoscan.

The 2g ecu does NOT allow a relatively quick sample rate for most logging solutions.

It doesn't take anyone 'good at tuning' todial in a good tune with an safc, a logger, and a wideband; or an safc and a better logger.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

No it doesn't.

MY1GDSM, this a 2g dsm being discussed here. You can't log %idc and knock count with a 2g ecu unless you use evoscan. It's $130 shipped for the cable and software. Which isn't bad for how advanced it is (solenoid control, ground timing, injector cut on/off, fuel pump ground, etc.). HAving %IDC and knock count logged allows one to get a good tune with out having to buy and use a wideband.

The 2g ecu does NOT allow a relatively quick sample rate for most logging solutions.

It doesn't take anyone 'good at tuning' todial in a good tune with an safc, a logger, and a wideband; or an safc and a better logger.

I bought evoscan thinking it was going to be great also. Im sure it would have been if I still used my factory ECU but I have an eprom ECU with a Keydiver chip. Evoscan just isnt fast enough to be effective with the older ECU's.

 

[e85_4g63]

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but why is everyone arguing over tuning with safc's, etc. The OP just asked our opinions between the 2g air meter or GM Maf / Translator combo, which is better? Or am I missing the point here?

 

[MY1GDSM]

DSm-onster
9600 Baud(2G) is alot faster then 1952 baud(1g)

Toofast

Yes if you have Tuner Pro
You can goto >tools>preferences>ALDL/Data logging and select the Interface Type as Translator Pro ~Also if you GEN II~
Hook you laptop up and via Serial cable or DB9 to USB... and click Initalize attached Hardware

Then you should have atleast these Values

TPS Volts
O2 sensor voltage - narrowband or wideband
Engine speed RPM
Spark advance - only with timing control
battery Volts
MAf volts - (if not using a frequency type of maf)
AUX input 1 volts
Exhaust Gas Temp
Volt in Again in not using a Frequncy type maf
Volt out " "
Aftersart Copenstion %
Wideband Air Fuel Ratio
Closed loop Correction %
User Tune
MAF_MASS Airflow - in Grams/sec
Engine Load - either RPM vs airflow or you can hook up a MAP sensor
frequency input - you can see what the MAF is REALLY FLOWING
frequency output

 

[MY1GDSM]

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but why is everyone arguing over tuning with safc's, etc. The OP just asked our opinions between the 2g air meter or GM Maf / Translator combo, which is better? Or am I missing the point here?

With either your going to Want(if not need)IMO a tool to tune the car with...

 

[dsm-onster]

DSm-onster
9600 Baud(2G) is alot faster then 1952 baud(1g)

Have you even logged a 2g car? The sample rates of the loggers are not enough. . . You don't need a wide band to tune if you use evoscan. You can tune for zero knock. You cannot do it any other way with a 2g ecu except with dsmlink.

If you run lean while your injectors are at 80% duty cycle ( who doesn't push their setup), how can having maft gen2 going to help?

 

[MY1GDSM]

NO what does'nt???

So your saying they sample slower then 1952?

Yes I know that the OP has a 2g
anybody looking at a timing curve on a 2g should be able to tell if they have knock. ... as far injetors go I've always say Just get as big as you can and not have to buy them twice....have'nt had to look at my in a long time
I think you are taking this a bit to personal I'm not telling the OP or anybody for that matter to change what they use just trin' to let people know the old MAF-t = $hity tune is not the case with the GEN II and there are alot of Great fetures Also I think you try to hard to shoot down anybody elses opinions often WHY? I'm just tring to share info hereWTF?
Sorry to the OP for thread jacking you hear also....

 

[dsm-onster]

Smple rate of the logger is different from the ecu can spit out. I've used an obd2 logger and they are terrible! It's very hard to look at a timing curve live. And most obd2 loggers only output a numeric amount, no graph to see sudden dips. I've done this before. I know what's easier and better to work with. I'm sving the OP money. No need for a wide band, no need for a tuning solution that costs twice as much. No need even to upgrade from his stock maf, which would mean couplers clamps and pipes. That's the information I'm trying to share. Thnk you for being civil so far.

 

[MY1GDSM]

If he wants to save money he can I don't beleave you've saved him any money... buy typing again
Me I'd get a wideband if I was him....
But thats me...not him or You

Why would he need couplers and pipes... he can use his stock MAF, he can put the GM maf in its place...he stated from the start he was not going to vent his BOV...

 

[MY1GDSM]

Look if your gonna add to your posts Above to ask me something just PM me and I'll be more then happy get back to you but this back and forth in the thread is not needed and getting way off topic....

 

[dsm-onster]

I will say this last thing. I don't think this is off the topic but I will just sumarize and then let it go:

Barring the use of an eprom or standalone, or full funtion piggyback like maftpro. . .

1) Best tunign solution incorperating a 2g maf: used SAFC $150, evoscan $120

2) Best tuning solution incorperating the gm maf: There are no used maft gen2's for sale $250, wideband $300, terrible typical obd2 logger $60

A used 2g maf costs about as much as a used gm maf.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

2g MAS > 3" GM MAFT

 

[toofast82]

This has gotten quite off topic. I do think the OP should just install the used 2gmaf($30+) and leave the car alone until he is knowledgable and ready to mod.

 

[MY1GDSM]

I will say this last thing. I don't think this is off the topic but I will just sumarize and then let it go:

Barring the use of an eprom or standalone, or full funtion piggyback like maftpro. . .

1) Best tunign solution incorperating a 2g maf: used SAFC $150, evoscan $120

2) Best tuning solution incorperating the gm maf: There are no used maft gen2's for sale $250, wideband $300, terrible typical obd2 logger $60

A used 2g maf costs about as much as a used gm maf.

MAF-pro is almost the same thing as MAf Gen II minus the SpeedDensity and boost control...
here's one for a hell of a deal if it stays this low at least

eBay Motors: Maf Translator Gen II Maft Gen 2 BRAND NEW Eclipse dsm (item 280307357222 end time Feb-03-09 16:28:28 PST)

O And you can pick up a new wideband for $200 O and its not like it won't work without one...