2G 2G MAS vs. GM MAF & Translator

[Jimmer307]

Alright, so my 2g Mas just went kaput on me and now i am throwing a code. I know i need a new air flow sensor, but which one should i choose (GM MAFT or another 2g MAS). I have a GMMAFT setup available for $120 if i want it, but i do not know that much about the setup. I have read numberous threads on the MAFT setup, but there is just sooo much false information. Currently my car has full exhaust, intake, IC Pipe (Upper & Lower), and a BOV (recirc).
I have plans of running around 300-400 hp (Obviously im a long way), so is it possible to run the GM setup with a nearly stock setup and tune it later on when i start creating serious HP?
And if so, does anyone know the stock settings?
BTW: IM not some ricer that wants to vent, i want a pull through setup (recirc)

Thanks in advance, and i will keep SEARCHING for the answer

 

[dsm-onster]

That IS a good deal! Does maft gen 2 have timing control like maft pro? It's not mentioned on the website. That would make a huge difference in how much injector you could run. That is a MAJOR difference, and otherwise the maft gen 2 would offer no real advantage over the safc unless it gives you timing control or buy a wideband to utilize the a/f ratio locking feature. Timing control is what separates a "piggy back" from a "fuel controller".

I like the maft pro! Alot of control for a good price. That would be something to look at, don't buy a maf . You don't need it.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Yes It does have timing control I beleave I Stated that already ...

Yes,MAF PRO it is a good product...

 

[dsm-onster]

I know you stated that. But is this from your personal experience? Or where did you read this?

 

[MY1GDSM]

Personal experience... But I beleave it is only for DSM's and Buicks, If you read the User manual that I posted the link for there is some info in there on it... Also anyone that has one of jeffs chips can have him to add it to the chip for $25... I'm not sure how it works with-out using one of his chips But It CAN be done. ...

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Directly from the MAFT GEN II Manual:

Spark Adv @ WOT
At each RPM point, the Spark advance that is programmed is what the
vehicle ECU will run once boost is over approximately 6 psi. This feature
only works on vehicles specifically set up for Remote Spark Advance
Control. Currently this is only DSMChips equipped cars with this feature
activated, and Buick GN's running the Extender Pro chips.

Now the only problem with this is that you still have to buy one of Jeff's chips to make it work.

Why not just buy a chip burner, keep your 2g MAS and have nearly infinite tuning capabilities? And be able to do it all by yourself...

 

[MY1GDSM]

AS it Says CURRENTLY and the manual was posted up 05-16-2006....

 

[toofast82]

I was told by full throttle that you dont need jeff's chip anymore for the spark advance feature. You can dowload a program to the gen2 and i believe there is a little cas wiring to do. Ive never did it though thats what they told me

 

[MY1GDSM]

So For MAF PRO its for sure you don't need a Chip
http://www.fullthrottletech.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=858&d=1212302930
not sure now about GEN II though...

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Wow, so not only now are you skewing the MAS's signal you are mangling the CAS's signal as well? That's reliable.

 

[need2boostpsi]

You can tune for an evo8 maf which is good for what 60lb/min over (600hp) using an safc.

BTW, you can "hack" the 2g maf so that it will meter 13% more air before becoming choppy and unstable. This will put you at about 48lb/min, enough to break your motor.

However, safc, maft, maft gen2 are all moot, because you need more injector than for what an safc or maf translator can compensate without running into timing advance issues. That will also grenade your motor.

THe 2G MAF can meter around 2700HZ of air or around 50lb/min(500hp) without being hacked, I would recommend the 2G or the 3G MAF for ease of installation and ease of tuning.
maffrequencylimits [ECMTuning - wiki]

 

[MIenKEi446]

Do you need to tune the MAFT if you're still running the 450cc injectors?

 

[dsm-onster]

For most you still need some minor tweeking. In blowthrough, I wouldn't even think about installing it without a logger that will at least give you your fuel trims.

THe 2G MAF can meter around 2700HZ of air or around 50lb/min(500hp) without being hacked, I would recommend the 2G or the 3G MAF for ease of installation and ease of tuning.
maffrequencylimits [ECMTuning - wiki]

Stealth 316 2g/3s maf transfer function. 612cfm, the cfm number found on the choke line of the evo3 16g. Rule of thumb is CFM X .07 = airflow in common circumstances (ambient pressure and temp). I've not actually gone past 2700 hz myself. When I saw over 50lb/min I was running a maf translator, which was hard to keep tuned in blowthrough. Lb/min flow will vary based on IAT and baro. HP numbers will vary because one setup makes more or less hp per lb/min than another.

I'm not disputing with you, because I'd like it to be the higher number. I like my 2g maf! This is what Jeff Oberholtzer released.

 

[CB81490]

i had the GM maf and switched to the 2g because my car wouldnt start when it was cold!!! those things are peices of crap imo any airflow sensor that goes in my car should be able to give the ecu all the correct information that the 1g did before

 

[dave99gst]

I <3 MAFT - I see no reason to bother screwing with any Sensor Pre-Turbo. With a GM sensor close to the t/b your lower i/c pipe can totally fall off the car and you will still be able to drive. Needless to say any boost leaks before the GM Sensor really wont matter other then power loss. (id bet 75-80% of us have a leak in at least 1 place in the i/c pipes. Id much rather meter the air that is actually going into my t/b. Not to mention ability to tune, faster spool, it looks 100x better and you can get more creative with a intake pipe. just my .02

 

[DreamChaser7]

Wow, I did not know that. Thanks for the correction. I still think the GM sensor is a PILE for our application.

Why mess with something that is proven to work and put yourself in a tuning nightmare. Stick with the 2g MAS. Now if you're trying to make over 450-500hp I could understand wanting something else. But, by then hopefully you'd go with a full standalone and be running SD.

My suggestion buy a new used 2g sensor. Then save up the money for dsmlink or a chip burner. Skip the SAFC's and the MAFT's because all they do is create problems when trying get the maximum out of the setup.

SD? For us old newbs..

 

[Dusty Landrum]

SD? For us old newbs..

Revived a VERY Very old thread I see.... SD=Speed Density. Another form to measure intake air volume.

 

[DreamChaser7]

Yes I did. Not up on all the acronyms yet. Been sitting on my 1g for over 20 years now. Finally getting serious about learning the ins and outs now that the paths have been figured out. Read my "long overdue" post if you have a min. Still don't have the money but I'm going to start god dammit. Bought a few parts so far. Based on my research and parts list I'm compiling I only need to find about 50-60K or so, .

 

[DreamChaser7]

Revived a VERY Very old thread I see.... SD=Speed Density. Another form to measure intake air volume.

BTW what brought me to this old post was my searching for a part number for a 2G MAS for my parts list...I'm not buying anything used for this car if I can prevent it

 

[1g92_TSi_XWD]

SD is the best. Funny reading about how awesome GM MAF were 13 years ago. But if you want something other than the 2g mas, SD is the only way to go. If you have Link, it’s just a check of the box.