1G 1GA timing issues

[dsm_jeb]

I've been very unsuccessful in trying to time this thing.

I have tried multiple different times with no results. Yes I have grounded the pin and I can hear the idle change when I do so but the closest I can get the timing mark on the pulley is like a inch from TDC. I don’t know how many degrees late that is but the car is SLOW!

I already replaced the CAS with a known good 1GB CAS. I’ve tried to disconnect the knock sensor with no change as well. Just tore it all the way apart AGAIN to check the mechanical timing for the fourth time and it looks good to me. The cam marks aren’t prefect lined up but don’t look like a tooth off to me. Maybe I’m blind.

Could it be an ECU issue?

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If I line the cam gears up perfectly then the crank looks like this, slightly off?

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[steve]

The timing belt looks like it's right other than the unknown phasing of the lower BS. Are you sure your crank pulley hasn't shifted?
Where is it's mark when the the belt marks are lined up?

 

[pauleyman]

Steve has a good point. Set to TDC and see where the mark is. Harmonic balancer may be fried. You could set the CAS in the middle as a base point and start from there.

 

[dwb]

Cam dowels sometimes bend so that can contribute to the gears being slightly off. A full tooth? I don't know.

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[dsm_jeb]

Steve has a good point. Set to TDC and see where the mark is. Harmonic balancer may be fried. You could set the CAS in the middle as a base point and start from there.

That was one of my original more hopeful thoughts but it lines up nicely. Also I don’t even think the car would start from the halfway point of the CAS cause once I start to move it toward the firewall it usually stalls out.

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Cam dowels sometimes bend so that can contribute to the gears being slightly off. A full tooth? I don't know.

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I’ve never considered this, I’ve actually tried to take one of the gears off before and all 170 lb of me couldn’t brake it loose so I could of bent it or some one else could have.

 

[pauleyman]

That was one of my original more hopeful thoughts but it lines up nicely. Also I don’t even think the car would start from the halfway point of the CAS cause once I start to move it toward the firewall it usually stalls out.

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Let's backup. What is the history if this car or motor? Has it ran in your possession?

 

[dsm_jeb]

Let's backup. What is the history if this car or motor? Has it ran in your possession?

yes I did a budget rebuild a year or two ago on it and it has ran pretty okay just never as fast as I feel like it should run stock. The catalytic converter gets HOT so I’m assuming it’s running pretty rich. But mostly runs and drives everywhere just fine.

I picked the car up from someone who blew up the motor and i rebuilt the engine from my original car that I had crashed and put it in one it’s in now. Not sure if the helps or not.

 

[ist dwa]

I'm sure you are using the #1 wire for your source for the timing light.

I don't really understand your question. You ground the wire and then move the CAS until it reads 5 degrees, boom your done. Idle needs to be steady as well, no surging.

 

[pauleyman]

Just for fun, which wire did you ground?

 

[dsm_jeb]

I'm sure you are using the #1 wire for your source for the timing light.

I don't really understand your question. You ground the wire and then move the Cas until it reads 5 degrees, boom your done. Idle needs to be steady as well, no surging.

The CAS is all the way advanced and it’s still reading very late timing, from what I’m reading the mechanical timing should be off for that much, but looks acceptable at least not a full tooth off.

Just for fun, which wire did you ground?

It’s the small connector behind the battery area that has the one male terminal and the other terminal is just pink plastic.

I know I have idling issues as well. Just moved states and now finding the time to work on it so it’s been a while since if tested everything but I remember being between 700-900 rpm’s with some times getting up to 1000 after driving for a while. But I can’t imagine that would cause the timing to be so late, maybe I’m wrong.

 

[pauleyman]

Any chance you have the balancer on wrong? There is an alignment dowel.

 

[dsm_jeb]

Any chance you have the balancer on wrong? There is an alignment dowel.

My alignment dowel is broken off but it is still lined up with where to was.

 

[ist dwa]

Are you taking the reading standing in front of the radiator, not from the fender side straight down.

Oh, there's an alignment for the cas itself, on the spiny thing there is a mark on one side and on the Cas housing, they should be close as possible when installed.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

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[dsm_jeb]

Are you taking the reading standing in front of the radiator, not from the fender side straight down.

Oh, there's an alignment for the cas itself, on the spiny thing there is a mark on one side and on the Cas housing, they should be close as possible when installed.

You’re saying that it could be 180 out? I have checked that multiple times, im pretty sure it won’t even start when I have it flipped but I will check again tomorrow just to be sure. And I was taking the reading from in front of the radiator.

 

[DSMPT]

im pretty sure it won’t even start when I have it flipped

It will start. Symptoms would depend on your setup and tuning.

 

[ist dwa]

Have tried a different harmonic balancer. When they go bad the inner hub starts to slip around the outer ring as the rubber loses its grip.

Also, your harmonic balance alignment peg is in the timing belt crank pulley, you just need to drive it out from the other side.

What cams?

Last, can you pull the timing belt tensioner pin in and out with no resistance when physical timing is at tdc?

 

[dsm_jeb]

Have tried a different harmonic balancer. When they go bad the inner hub starts to slip around the outer ring as the rubber loses its grip.

Also, your harmonic balance alignment peg is in the timing belt crank pulley, you just need to drive it out from the other side.

What cams?

Last, can you pull the timing belt tensioner pin in and out with no resistance when physical timing is at tdc?

I think I swapped the balancer with a spare one I had but I have no idea the condition of it but I didn’t see any change. Thanks for that! I’ll have to drive that out next time I have it off. Just stock cams as far as I know, not sure how to tell. I will test that when I get home tonight and update you.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Your car WILL START AND RUN if your CAS is flipped out of phase, but it won't run as good and you will be wondering why. I have a car (the White 90 GSX) that I got that way. It ran, just not great. It needed a timing belt and that was off by 1 tooth also, she STILL RAN. When I fixed all of that stuff, she acted like a normal DSM and was peppy and fun.
Been there, done that.
If you'd like to know my "thinking", it was that it was firing the spark JUST BEFORE the injector firing instead of the other way around, but I really don't know. That's just my assumption.
Marty

 

[ist dwa]

Camshaft Identification Information

This thread is for tech info/data only. If you do not have anything to contribute that will help others identify what camshafts they have, please do not post. If you do have helpful info, please make sure to upload your pictures to the site so they will not be lost. Posting data without...

www.dsmtuners.com

 

[dsm_jeb]

Sorry for the late response everyone.

So I removed the CAS and it was lining up good and I don’t see anything wrong. When I go to put the tensioner pin in it won’t even go in because the other hole is too high like the belt is too loose?

Also my cam shafts are odd and miss matched. The intake has RB 11 and the exhaust says R1 04 the cam shaft identification thread says that the exhaust cam might be a Kia or Hyundai cam?

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[ist dwa]

Now we are getting somewhere. Please replace the cams with some good gsc s2s and do a proper timing belt install with correct tension.

That is my diagnosis at this point.

 

[dsm_jeb]

Now we are getting somewhere. Please replace the cams with some good gsc s2s and do a proper timing belt install with correct tension.

That is my diagnosis at this point.

Okay and I should be able to get much closer to stock HP with just dropping those cams in without at tune?

Or would these work? Closer to my budget and what I’m trying to achieve within the year.

90-94 Mitsubishi Eclipse Talon Turbo 1G DSM 4G63T OEM Camshaft Cam Shaft Turbo | eBay

They will fit the following applications with the Mitsubishi 2.0L DOHC Turbo or N\A 4G63\4G63T engine. 90-94 Eagle Talon. 90-92 Mitsubishi Galant.

www.ebay.com

 

[dsm_jeb]

I’ve been racking my brain all day and still can’t visualize how if my camshafts and crank are correctly timed how the camshafts being the wrong size or duration would reflect on my ignition timing so much? I can only think that possibly the incorrect engine vacuum is what is making the ECU retard my ignition timing? Help before I drive myself crazy .