1G Timing issues

[Talon virgin]

Bought a 90 Talon Tsi AWD about 3 months ago, just replaced the headgasket because of overheating issues.

After putting the timing belt on and attempting to time the engine, my father and i ran into the snag of it firing on cyl.#1 at 15ish* btdc when according to a few post here and on dsm talk say that it should be between 5-8*. We adjusted the sensor and got it to 12* before but we bottomed out the cam position sensor and cant rotate it anymore.

Is there anything i can do besides taking the timing belt off and trying again? or any other way to time the engine for that matter.

 

[bryanwheat]

Well the timing marks either line up on the cams or they don't. IF the timing marks are lined up than it is in mechanical time. From there if it is still not lining up with a timing light you should find a different cam angle sensor. There are some out there that are not made quite right that will not allow you to set the base timing right.

 

[Talon virgin]

Well the timing marks either line up on the cams or they don't. IF the timing marks are lined up than it is in mechanical time. From there if it is still not lining up with a timing light you should find a different cam angle sensor. There are some out there that are not made quite right that will not allow you to set the base timing right.

how much of a pain is it to replace the sensor.
the one currently on the engine is a mitsubishi part

 

[romeen]

Did you make sure that the timing plug was grounded and the idle was steady at 750rpm?

The CAS is actually quite easy to replace. Two nuts hold it in place and if you replace it with another one from a '90 then the wiring harness plugs right in. Motor has to be at TDC when doing this and the CAS has to be in the correct position which you can see near the bottom of this page:

RRE Instructions

 

[1fastcolt]

did you ground out the connector on the firewall? if not it will read higher.


Steve

 

[Talon virgin]

Did you make sure that the timing plug was grounded and the idle was steady at 750rpm?

The CAS is actually quite easy to replace. Two nuts hold it in place and if you replace it with another one from a '90 then the wiring harness plugs right in. Motor has to be at TDC when doing this and the CAS has to be in the correct position which you can see near the bottom of this page:

RRE Instructions

timing plug was grounded, but the idle on this car doesnt go below 1k unless im lettin the clutch out
if it does it bogs and will stall if below 800
i was thinking it was because of the timing

also would the timing being so far retarded cause it to run rich?

 

[romeen]

The higher idle rpm will cause higher timing so that may be your issue. Yes, retarded timing can cause your car to run rich.

 

[Talon virgin]

alright so what do i do

 

[romeen]

Turn the BISS screw counterclockwise and try to get the idle down to 750. Remember to have the motor up to full operating temp and all accessories off.

 

[bryanwheat]

Once you have the plug grounded turn the biss screw in until the idle lowers to where you want it.

 

[Talon virgin]

that'll be the one on the iac side of the throttle body correct?

 

[bryanwheat]

that'll be the one on the iac side of the throttle body correct?

The biss is on top front of the throttle body.

 

[romeen]

Turn the BISS screw counterclockwise and try to get the idle down to 750. Remember to have the motor up to full operating temp and all accessories off.

Once you have the plug grounded turn the biss screw in until the idle lowers to where you want it.

Sorry, my mistake for telling you turn the BISS CCW. As Bryan said, turn it inwards (clockwise) to drop the idle.

 

[DSM1G90]

Let's go back to the front: you did a head job and did belts. Did you check to see if you got the cam dowel pins BOTH at the 12:00 positon, then laid the belt over the top of the two cams and secured the belt over the two sprockets to keep the dowels at 12:00 position when you laced the belt over the other sprockets?

Sounds like your belt timing is WAY off.

You do the ISC grounding adjustment before you start messing with the BISS screw.

-DSM

 

[Talon virgin]

yes they were both at 1200 but we had to wrench on it a bit to get there... after releasing the tensioner everything was within .003" of the timing marks
(damn my father for being an engineer and needing to measure everything)

its not a timing belt issue.... but who knows...

 

[DSM1G90]

Love your father who is critical like that - he prob could design his own turbo motor that is machine perfect and balanced.

The CAS has a mark that the tang has to meet up with: on the end of one tang, is a groove that meets up with the notch on the case of the CAS.

On the end of the EXH cam is where the CAS meets up with, the cam end has a little house shaped symbol above the right slot of the cam end that must be in the up position. This will show that the cam is at TDC with the dowels at 12:00 position.

Get these two marks together and you should be close to time. Then, just do the base timing requirements noted in VFAQ.

I had to put a new CAS in my vehicle. Did the above techniques and the motor fired up immediately and had to do a slight roll of the CAS to get my base timing in..

Good luck-DSM

 

[romeen]

The CAS has a mark that the tang has to meet up with: on the end of one tang, is a groove that meets up with the notch on the case of the CAS.

On the end of the EXH cam is where the CAS meets up with, the cam end has a little house shaped symbol above the right slot of the cam end that must be in the up position. This will show that the cam is at TDC with the dowels at 12:00 position.

I think you probably meant to say the intake cam.

 

[Talon virgin]

I think you probably meant to say the intake cam.

was just about to ask the same thing since the cas is on the pass side of the intake cam

Love your father who is critical like that - he prob could design his own turbo motor that is machine perfect and balanced.

The CAS has a mark that the tang has to meet up with: on the end of one tang, is a groove that meets up with the notch on the case of the CAS.

On the end of the EXH cam is where the CAS meets up with, the cam end has a little house shaped symbol above the right slot of the cam end that must be in the up position. This will show that the cam is at TDC with the dowels at 12:00 position.

Get these two marks together and you should be close to time. Then, just do the base timing requirements noted in VFAQ.

I had to put a new CAS in my vehicle. Did the above techniques and the motor fired up immediately and had to do a slight roll of the CAS to get my base timing in..

Good luck-DSM

also, my motor fires and runs it just runs really rich and from using the timing light as i said in my first post its about 12* before tdc

 

[DSM1G90]

Okey..whoops..you're right, my bad - INT cam. (Sorry on that ....)

..just can't get over this "12*BTDC" thing.

Now, a little story from my end here with the issue with rich mixture: My car, when I got it 4yrs ago, has a JDM VR4 installed and the motor came with 510 injectors and a B16G.

The timing was cranked wide open up to 20*BTDC with terminal grounded. I back it down to 5* and it ran pretty sluggish due to the pig rich mixture-even the plugs were total soot covered. Knock sensor was shot-had to get a new one.

The ECU is a stock ECU that was designed to work with stock 450's.

I did a full belt job shortly after I got the car home-belt was rather nasty and the rollers were shot. New BPR6ES plugs and wires came afterwards.

After the belt and plug change, I changed out the injectors to stock 450's and my rich mixture was done and over with. Idles smooth and have plenty of power now.

Whadda ya say?

- DSM

 

[Talon virgin]

Bought a 90 Talon Tsi AWD about 3 months ago, just replaced the headgasket because of overheating issues.

After putting the timing belt on and attempting to time the engine, my father and i ran into the snag of it firing on cyl.#1 at 15ish* btdc when according to a few post here and on dsm talk say that it should be between 5-8*. We adjusted the sensor and got it to 12* before but we bottomed out the cam position sensor and cant rotate it anymore.

Is there anything i can do besides taking the timing belt off and trying again? or any other way to time the engine for that matter.

Thanks for all the help guys, i got it running and was driving perfectly until a couple days ago

It has developed a miss on one of the cylinders and i cant seem to locate the problem. At first i thought it was just a bad set of plugs/wires so i replaced them today and to no avail. if anything it runs worse with the new gear.

HEEEELLLLPPPP please
-Sork