ECMlink 1G MAP sensor reads positive

[Nii]

I'm having issues getting my 1g to idle. I have a lot I need to dial in like fuel trims, AFR, and what not but I want to figure out why my MAP reads positive with key on and at idle. I'm seeing around 5psi on the GM 3bar and ECU boost is very similar.

Have y'all had this issue before?

 

[steve]

Would it help any to get pictures that are from a different angle or more sharply focused, or taken from a little closer, more zoomed in to a particular area?

Most of the time I had to work on that ceramic hybrid IC there wasn't any visual signs that there was something wrong. It was only by logging and testing the inputs that I would discover that there was an issue and after repairing verify that it was fixed.

The question about if something is going on with IC111 can be cleared up with a better/clearer picture of that area.

I didn't really notice anything funny going on with the TPS before I'll have to go back and look.

 

[We're on Boost]

In the video in post #67 it's running really really rough, and the AFR shown on the wideband is OK so it's apparently not from being too rich or too lean.
Could you post the log for that?

@DSMPT
Hiroshi, could you have a look at the video in post #67? We are wondering if the idle could be this rough just because of the cams, or if there must be something else, something wrong that is making it idle this rough.
The cams are Brian Crower Stage 4 Camshafts 284°/280°: Mitsubishi Eclipse 4G63 1990-99 #20964.
I don't know what rpm it was idling at in the video.
The car Specs page is here.

The car also has hardly any vacuum at idle, or at least that's what the logs say. Usually only about -4 inHg.

 

[DSMPT]

@DSMPT
Hiroshi, could you have a look at the video in post #67? We are wondering if the idle could be this rough just because of the cams, or if there must be something else, something wrong that is making it idle this rough.
The cams are Brian Crower Stage 4 Camshafts 284°/280°: Mitsubishi Eclipse 4G63 1990-99 #20964.
I don't know what rpm it was idling at in the video.
The car Specs page is here.

The car also has hardly any vacuum at idle, or at least that's what the logs say. Usually only about -4 inHg.

Generally speaking agressive cams make the idle rough and intake vacuum less, but with this little vacuum, I would doubt something.
I am wondering if OP is using those white painted adjustable cam gears that are in the pic with a turbo and throttle body in page 3.
Maybe it's only me because the angle and resolution, but I can't see the early 4g63 timing marks. Do they have the horizontal timing marks or did OP mark them? If not, the gears are dedicated for the late 4g63 like EVO 4+, which means possibly the valve timing is off and that is causing low vacuum and rough idle. Just a confirmation.

 

[Nii]

Generally speaking agressive cams make the idle rough and intake vacuum less, but with this little vacuum, I would doubt something.
I am wondering if OP is using those white painted adjustable cam gears that are in the pic with a turbo and throttle body in page 3.
Maybe it's only me because the angle and resolution, but I can't see the early 4g63 timing marks. Do they have the horizontal timing marks or did OP mark them? If not, the gears are dedicated for the late 4g63 like EVO 4+, which means possibly the valve timing is off and that is causing low vacuum and rough idle. Just a confirmation.

I've got skunk 2 cam gears now

 

[DSMPT]

I've got skunk 2 cam gears now

So you have another set of gears. No longer using these cam gears?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Nii]

So you have another set of gears. No longer using these cam gears?

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yes sir

same gears as this post

 

[Nii]

my cams are 280s aswell so they are really aggressive

I've got some updates for y'all. I adjusted the cam angle sensor and got more vacuum! Instead of 2 were sitting at 6 to 8. I ordered a new one-way valve because ever since I directed the one-way valve the correct direction, the brakes have not been functioning. So I think my one-way valve is the issue so I will be putting in a new one and I think that will get my vacuum back to normal!

After I adjusted the cam angle sensor, it allows the car to start every time with no issues! It fires right up easily!

 

[We're on Boost]

after I adjusted the cam angle sensor, it allows the car to start every time with no issues! it fires right up easily!

That's awesome! You should post a log again sometime.

About the one-way valve in the booster hose, it is supposed to let air move towards the engine, and it is not supposed to let air move towards the booster. That won't be a vacuum leak unless the booster itself is leaking inside, through a damaged diaphragm or some other kind of damage that lets outside air come into the booster.

I still don't understand why the ThrotPos was jittering back and forth between like 50% and 0% very fast at around 1156 and 1158 and then again after that in the April 29-01 log

 

[Nii]

That's awesome! You should post a log again sometime.

About the one-way valve in the booster hose, it is supposed to let air move towards the engine, and it is not supposed to let air move towards the booster. That won't be a vacuum leak unless the booster itself is leaking inside, through a damaged diaphragm or some other kind of damage.

I still don't understand why the ThrotPos was jittering back and forth between like 50% and 0% very fast at around 1156 and 1158 and then again after that in the April 29-01 log

I'll need to go look at that log! and see what up with that jitter! thank you again for all the help! and I'll post a log asap!

 

[We're on Boost]

You might need to make ThrotPos stand out more. For ThrotPos I always right click on it and go ThrotPos Preferences from the right click menu and then check the boxes for Thick Line and Dashed Lined. It really jumps out at you then.

 

[Nii]

You might need to make ThrotPos stand out more. For ThrotPos I always right click on it and go ThrotPos Preferences from the right click menu and then check the boxes for Thick Line and Dashed Lined. It really jumps out at you then.

sounds good!

 

[Nii]

Hey sorry y'all life has been crazy and work has had me traveling all round lately i started the car up for the first time in a few weeks and it started up like a charm still low vac since i haven't gotten to work on it but it starts real easy.

 

[We're on Boost]

Hey sorry y'all life has been crazy and work has had me traveling all round lately i started the car up for the first time in a few weeks and it started up like a charm still low vac since i haven't gotten to work on it but it starts real easy.

Looks like it does start and run real nice! Low vac at idle still a little suspicious like you noted.
It did pretty much come down to target idle though, and the ISC is still open quite a bit at the end. So the ISC has more travel left in it to keep idle speed down as it warms up. I guess we'll see.

 

[Nii]

Looks like it does start and run real nice! Low vac at idle still a little suspicious like you noted.
It did pretty much come down to target idle though, and the ISC is still open quite a bit at the end. So the ISC has more travel left in it to keep idle speed down as it warms up. I guess we'll see.

yeah I'm gonna try and play around with the cas see if that improves anything feels like this is that final hurdle that is so tough to pass haha

 

[We're on Boost]

I ordered a new one-way valve because ever since I directed the one-way valve the correct direction, the brakes have not been functioning.

Did you put in the new one-way valve yet? Did you buy it as a hose with the valve already in it? If you are getting just a valve, how do you know which way around to position it?
If the brakes don't work, it sure sounds like the valve is backwards. Because a backwards valve won't let the engine suck the air out of the booster.

 

[Nii]

Did you put in the new one-way valve yet? Did you buy it as a hose with the valve already in it? If you are getting just a valve, how do you know which way around to position it?
If the brakes don't work, it sure sounds like the valve is backwards. Because a backwards valve won't let the engine suck the air out of the booster.

I did get a new valve and it was not the break booster I found out my caliper line was leaking and that was why my break pressure sucked haha! so my guess is maybe piston rings could be misaligned and or timing but honestly I don't think it's timing

 

[We're on Boost]

Do your brakes work ok now?
As far as the ignition timing, it should be correct if you adjusted it to the 5 degree mark on the timing cover while that check box on the Misc tab is checked (ground timing connector). Did you do it that way? I mean, I can remember old days when we would just adjust things like that until it "runs good" without any diagnostic tools like timing light. Is that what you are doing when you've adjusted the cam angle sensor?
On the other hand there could be something messed up with your timing cover or your CAS.

 

[Nii]

Do your brakes work ok now?
As far as the ignition timing, it should be correct if you adjusted it to the 5 degree mark on the timing cover while that check box on the Misc tab is checked (ground timing connector). Did you do it that way? I mean, I can remember old days when we would just adjust things like that until it "runs good" without any diagnostic tools like timing light. Is that what you are doing when you've adjusted the cam angle sensor?
On the other hand there could be something messed up with your timing cover or your CAS.

I'm gonna repair it Friday and I'll be sure then but I'm pretty sure they will work fine when I do the fix. and when I checked timing with a light it was hitting where it was supposed to. on the timing cover at the 5° btdc. I never did a propper adjustment of my cas so that's my final thing to do but honestly I don't think I'll get more than -6 to -8 psi unless I realign my pistons rings; when I reassembled the engine after I got the rotating assembly balanced I forgot to double check the pistons rings alignment because I thought it was fine since I set them on the table and never moved them till reassembly. so it was a rookie mistake on my end the one time I didn't triple check

 

[We're on Boost]

Sounds like your ignition timing should be ok then.

when I reassembled the engine after I got the rotating assembly balanced I forgot to double check the pistons rings alignment because I thought it was fine since I set them on the table and never moved them till reassembly.

As far as the ring gaps being spaced out properly, I'm reading this as saying that you put the pistons and rings together on the table with the gaps spaced properly. Then later when you put on the ring compressor you didn't recheck the gap locations. So they might be questionable. Is that what you are saying? If so, I don't know, seems like they would probably be ok. And then they should gradually rotate anyway when the engine is running. But I know the feeling of being unsure about something just because I haven't checked it in the last 5 minutes.

 

[Nii]

Sounds like your ignition timing should be ok then.


As far as the ring gaps being spaced out properly, I'm reading this as saying that you put the pistons and rings together on the table with the gaps spaced properly. Then later when you put on the ring compressor you didn't recheck the gap locations. So they might be questionable. Is that what you are saying? If so, I don't know, seems like they would probably be ok. And then they should gradually rotate anyway when the engine is running. But I know the feeling of being unsure about something just because I haven't checked it in the last 5 minutes.

yes that's what I was meaning to say . that's what I thought too that they gradually move. I had then set how manly wanted it so I didn't think to check again

 

[We're on Boost]

yes that's what I was meaning to say . that's what I thought too that they gradually move. I had then set how manly wanted it so I didn't think to check again

Ok phew, then I would think that even if they aren't perfect, they probably aren't terrible either . The gap positioning I mean.

From how your May 26 log looks, I think you should start driving that thing once the brakes are for sure working.
You'd want to keep it in closed loop the first time out (no boost basically).
In the May 26 log it went into closed loop real nice at 87 degrees F just like it's supposed to.

I notice your max oct timing table is the same as mine. Those numbers are for high ethanol content fuel. So you'd want lower numbers in there for 91 octane gas. If you started out using my Min Oct timing table, that would be pretty darn safe. You might find you can turn the numbers up some from there. But in the meantime you could run it up to probably mid or high 20's boost on 91 octane once everything seems to be working ok.
Then when you change to flex fuel, put the Max Oct numbers back in there just for the Max Oct table.

Your turbo, if it is the DSM 82 HTA, is really very similar to mine. The turbine housing would be the main difference, and if it is the FP30 turbine housing, as I remember those were 9 square centimeters nozzle area which is just a slightly bigger nozzle than a .63 a/r T3 like mine. I think it will have about the same boost vs RPM as mine.
Your turbine wheel would be a Garrett GT35 wheel, just like mine.
Your compressor wheel would be the same as mine (HTA 3582)
Your bearings and center section would be same as mine (Garrett GT35).
Do you know if your turbine housing is the FP30 housing?

 

[Nii]

Ok phew, then I would think that even if they aren't perfect, they probably aren't terrible either . The gap positioning I mean.

From how your May 26 log looks, I think you should start driving that thing once the brakes are for sure working.
You'd want to keep it in closed loop the first time out (no boost basically).
In the May 26 log it went into closed loop real nice at 87 degrees F just like it's supposed to.

I notice your max oct timing table is the same as mine. Those numbers are for high ethanol content fuel. So you'd want lower numbers in there for 91 octane gas. If you started out using my Min Oct timing table, that would be pretty darn safe. You might find you can turn the numbers up some from there. But in the meantime you could run it up to probably mid or high 20's boost on 91 octane once everything seems to be working ok.
Then when you change to flex fuel, put the Max Oct numbers back in there just for the Max Oct table.

Your turbo, if it is the DSM 82 HTA, is really very similar to mine. The turbine housing would be the main difference, and if it is the FP30 turbine housing, as I remember those were 9 square centimeters nozzle area which is just a slightly bigger nozzle than a .63 a/r T3 like mine. I think it will have about the same boost vs RPM as mine.
Your turbine wheel would be a Garrett GT35 wheel, just like mine.
Your compressor wheel would be the same as mine (HTA 3582)
Your bearings and center section would be same as mine (Garrett GT35).
Do you know if your turbine housing is the FP30 housing?

that's the plan I want to take her out Friday and Saturday to start getting some propper data so I can begin to dial her in. I'll get those min and max tables dialed down and continue from there. I think the housing is the fp30 but I'm not completely sure it's a smaller exhaust housing so that it can spool faster and on the intake half of it dose say .63 a/r so I think the inducer is the original. just the exhaust housing is smaller then what Garett originally had; on the turbo side of things do y'all know where I can get a Garett brand cartridge form my turbo. hopefully they are still produced but the exhaust turbine is eaten up a little from my bud who had it before me. he told me it was new when I bought it so that was a bit annoying

 

[We're on Boost]

that's the plan I want to take her out Friday and Saturday to start getting some propper data so I can begin to dial her in. I'll get those min and max tables dialed down and continue from there. I think the housing is the fp30 but I'm not completely sure it's a smaller exhaust housing so that it can spool faster and on the intake half of it dose say .63 a/r so I think the inducer is the original. just the exhaust housing is smaller then what Garett originally had; on the turbo side of things do y'all know where I can get a Garett brand cartridge form my turbo. hopefully they are still produced but the exhaust turbine is eaten up a little from my bud who had it before me. he told me it was new when I bought it so that was a bit annoying

You can definitely still buy a brand new genuine Garrett CHRA (the whole CHRA). They have always been expensive and of course they are even more expensive than ever now.
For looking at new Garrett parts, I start out by looking at ATP, because they have been a genuine Garrett dealer for a long time, and I never hear people say negative stuff about them.
So here's their page for a new Garrett GT3582 CHRA.
$1,049
It's what you want except it comes with the compressor wheel on it, which you would have to take off, and then put the HTA wheel on it.
But then when you do that, the whole rotating assembly needs to be rebalanced on a fancy machine that only a turbo rebuilder would have!

If it was me, I'd use this ATP page just for info, and I'd start emailing back and forth with Forced Performance about them buying the CHRA from Garrett or whoever, and them doing all the work of putting the whole thing together (your housings, your HTA compressor wheel, the new Garrett CHRA, and balancing). That way I would know that everything is right. I mean there's things that can go wrong!
For one thing, I'm kind of assuming your Garrett parts are GT3582, not GT30. I don't remember FP ever making one of these with GT30 stuff but maybe they did. What I think I remember is that the FP30 housing was made for GT30 stuff, and that's how FP used it at first (with the FP3052) but then they were able to machine out the inside surfaces a little bigger so as to fit the GT35 turbine into it. They didn't make a whole new casting. And I could be wrong about that too.
Of course you would want to be sure there are no chunks or chips out of your compressor wheel before getting into something like this.

All this probably sounds kinda horrible but it should be several hundred dollars cheaper than buying a brand new FP Black Ball Bearing turbo for DSM which they sell for $2,549. Plus, the new Black uses a 10 sq cm turbine housing, and it's not stainless steel like the FP30. I'd rather have the FP30 housing really. Plus it would fit back onto the car exactly like it did before.

BTW I checked it out, the FP30 turbine housing was indeed 9 sq cm nozzle area. I found an old post in here by GrocMax of FP. In that post he said 1.4 sq inches nozzle area. That is 9 sq cm. He also said that figures out to be an A/R of 0.70. He also basically said that A/R is a stupidly poor substitute for knowing the nozzle area, which I agree with.

the exhaust turbine is eaten up a little

Given that it's expensive to rebuild, how bad is that turbine wheel really? Are there chunks or chips out of it? Turbine wheels do look pretty nasty after they have been used for a while.

 

[Nii]

Ok phew, then I would think that even if they aren't perfect, they probably aren't terrible either . The gap positioning I mean.

From how your May 26 log looks, I think you should start driving that thing once the brakes are for sure working.
You'd want to keep it in closed loop the first time out (no boost basically).
In the May 26 log it went into closed loop real nice at 87 degrees F just like it's supposed to.

I notice your max oct timing table is the same as mine. Those numbers are for high ethanol content fuel. So you'd want lower numbers in there for 91 octane gas. If you started out using my Min Oct timing table, that would be pretty darn safe. You might find you can turn the numbers up some from there. But in the meantime you could run it up to probably mid or high 20's boost on 91 octane once everything seems to be working ok.
Then when you change to flex fuel, put the Max Oct numbers back in there just for the Max Oct table.

Your turbo, if it is the DSM 82 HTA, is really very similar to mine. The turbine housing would be the main difference, and if it is the FP30 turbine housing, as I remember those were 9 square centimeters nozzle area which is just a slightly bigger nozzle than a .63 a/r T3 like mine. I think it will have about the same boost vs RPM as mine.
Your turbine wheel would be a Garrett GT35 wheel, just like mine.
Your compressor wheel would be the same as mine (HTA 3582)
Your bearings and center section would be same as mine (Garrett GT35).
Do you know if your turbine housing is the FP30 housing?

that's the plan I want to take her out Friday and Saturday to start getting some propper data so I can begin to dial her in. I'll get those min and max tables dialed down and continue from there. I think the housing is the fp30 but I'm not completely sure it's a smaller exhaust housing so that it can spool faster and on the intake half of it dose say .63 a/r so I think the inducer is the original. just the exhaust housing is smaller then what Garett originally had; on the turbo side of things do y'all know where I can get a Garett brand cartridge form my turbo. hopefully they are still produced but the exhaust turbine is eaten up a little from my bud who had it before me. he told me it was new when I bought it so that was a bit annoying

You can definitely still buy a brand new genuine Garrett CHRA (the whole CHRA). They have always been expensive and of course they are even more expensive than ever now.
For looking at new Garrett parts, I start out by looking at ATP, because they have been a genuine Garrett dealer for a long time, and I never hear people say negative stuff about them.
So here's their page for a new Garrett GT3582 CHRA.
$1,049
It's what you want except it comes with the compressor wheel on it, which you would have to take off, and then put the HTA wheel on it.
But then when you do that, the whole rotating assembly needs to be rebalanced on a fancy machine that only a turbo rebuilder would have!

If it was me, I'd use this ATP page just for info, and I'd start emailing back and forth with Forced Performance about them buying the CHRA from Garrett or whoever, and them doing all the work of putting the whole thing together (your housings, your HTA compressor wheel, the new Garrett CHRA, and balancing). That way I would know that everything is right. I mean there's things that can go wrong!
For one thing, I'm kind of assuming your Garrett parts are GT3582, not GT30. I don't remember FP ever making one of these with GT30 stuff but maybe they did. What I think I remember is that the FP30 housing was made for GT30 stuff, and that's how FP used it at first (with the FP3052) but then they were able to machine out the inside surfaces a little bigger so as to fit the GT35 turbine into it. They didn't make a whole new casting. And I could be wrong about that too.
Of course you would want to be sure there are no chunks or chips out of your compressor wheel before getting into something like this.

All this probably sounds kinda horrible but it should be several hundred dollars cheaper than buying a brand new FP Black Ball Bearing turbo for DSM which they sell for $2,549. Plus, the new Black uses a 10 sq cm turbine housing, and it's not stainless steel like the FP30. I'd rather have the FP30 housing really. Plus it would fit back onto the car exactly like it did before.

BTW I checked it out, the FP30 turbine housing was indeed 9 sq cm nozzle area. I found an old post in here by GrocMax of FP. In that post he said 1.4 sq inches nozzle area. That is 9 sq cm. He also said that figures out to be an A/R of 0.70. He also basically said that A/R is a stupidly poor substitute for knowing the nozzle area, which I agree with.


Given that it's expensive to rebuild, how bad is that turbine wheel really? Are there chunks or chips out of it? Turbine wheels do look pretty nasty after they have been used for a while.

it's not horrible it can be used still so I'm not super worried about it haha! with all that work I might as well just buy a new turbo because I think I can buy this the same exact turbo off of DSM parts for like $2,000

 

[We're on Boost]

it's not horrible it can be used still so I'm not super worried about it haha!

Good! The worst thing would be if it was way out of balance, like due to a chip out of a blade edge or something like that.

I think I can buy this the same exact turbo off of DSM parts for like $2,000

There is something really wrong with the dsmparts.com web page for that turbo.
If that page is even current and serious, it would have to be for a used one, or some kind of reman or clone, or I don't know what.
But the FP30 turbine housing hasn't been available as a new item for several years.
That website has been for sale for a long time too. He's probably not maintaining all of the pages on it.
The pictures and product details all look like they were copy and pasted from when they were current years ago on the FP website.
To me, it reeks like when you get one of those hacking attempt emails.
But for info and pics it's about as good as finding the original FP webpage with the wayback machine.

There might a way that you could re-use your FP30 turbine housing with a brand-new turbo though.