ECMlink 1G MAP sensor reads positive

[Nii]

I'm having issues getting my 1g to idle. I have a lot I need to dial in like fuel trims, AFR, and what not but I want to figure out why my MAP reads positive with key on and at idle. I'm seeing around 5psi on the GM 3bar and ECU boost is very similar.

Have y'all had this issue before?

 

[We're on Boost]

There might a way that you could re-use your FP30 turbine housing with a brand-new turbo though.

Have a couple of thoughts about how to do this that would be worth checking into more if you ever wanted to go this way.

1.) You could buy a Garrett GTX3582 Gen2 Super Core and bolt the FP30 housing to it. I think.
It looks like you can get your choice of compressor housings between the default T04S (which is big and might run into something on your car, like the water pipe on the front of the engine block) or the T04E which is smaller, might even be smaller than what you have in there now.
Anyway the GTX Gen2 is several years more modern on the compressor side than the GT series, but the turbine wheels are the same. The compressor is about as modern as HTA and HTZ stuff.
$1,903

2.) You might be able to use a new FP HD3582 Ball Bearing Turbo. I mean the FP30 turbine housing might bolt up to it and fit and work just fine. You'd have to check that out with FP. But there's a chance, because the HD3582 has same diameter turbine wheel as the GT35 (62/68 mm) and the bolted attachment to the CHRA looks the same. This would be a low-cost way of doing it if it works right.
$799

 

[Nii]

Have a couple of thoughts about how to do this that would be worth checking into more if you ever wanted to go this way.

1.) You could buy a Garrett GTX3582 Gen2 Super Core and bolt the FP30 housing to it. I think.
It looks like you can get your choice of compressor housings between the default T04S (which is big and might run into something on your car, like the water pipe on the front of the engine block) or the T04E which is smaller, might even be smaller than what you have in there now.
Anyway the GTX Gen2 is several years more modern on the compressor side than the GT series, but the turbine wheels are the same. The compressor is about as modern as HTA and HTZ stuff.
$1,903

2.) You might be able to use a new FP HD3582 Ball Bearing Turbo. I mean the FP30 turbine housing might bolt up to it and fit and work just fine. You'd have to check that out with FP. But there's a chance, because the HD3582 has same diameter turbine wheel as the GT35 (62/68 mm) and the bolted attachment to the CHRA looks the same. This would be a low-cost way of doing it if it works right.
$799

Thank you I'll look into it; I'm working on the hot start issue currently for the 1g trying to figure out why she does not want to start again after shes run and warmed up. I have to wait an hour before she will want to start again. its not vapor locked and it has a new coolant temp switch. I'm wondering if it has to do with my fuel pump? maybe the ground wire is getting too hot or something so the wire has to cool before it'll want to start again? I'm just stumped in general. its the last thing i need before i feel confident driving a distance. I didn't do a rewire for the pump or anything just changed the pigtail from OEM to the pigtail my pump came with so maybe that is the problem? :/ im using this pump

AEM 340lph E85 Fuel Pump​

 

[We're on Boost]

Your stock fuel pump wires probably do get pretty warm when running, but I think that if the wires got hot enough that it won't hot re-start, it probably wouldn't run at all ever after that, until you replace the burned connector pin or whatever it was that got burned.
On my specs and photos page, do you see the pic of my trunk with the purple Fuelab filter? In that pic you can see the stock wiring running across the floor, and back where that wire comes out from the left wheel well area there is a connector. You would be able to just feel those things with your hands (carefully of course ) to get an idea how hot they are.

Anyway, I have never had the hot start problem and don't really know anything about it.
But to check on whether the fuel pump is running or not, I'd say put a Marshall 0-100 psi fuel pressure gauge into the regulator port and set up a camera on a tripod to take video of the gauge when you are trying a hot restart that isn't starting.
I'm assuming it is cranking but just not starting.

 

[Nii]

Your stock fuel pump wires probably do get pretty warm when running, but I think that if the wires got hot enough that it won't hot re-start, it probably wouldn't run at all ever after that, until you replace the burned connector pin or whatever it was that got burned.
On my specs and photos page, do you see the pic of my trunk with the purple Fuelab filter? In that pic you can see the stock wiring running across the floor, and back where that wire comes out from the left wheel well area there is a connector. You would be able to just feel those things with your hands (carefully of course ) to get an idea how hot they are.

Anyway, I have never had the hot start problem and don't really know anything about it.
But to check on whether the fuel pump is running or not, I'd say put a Marshall 0-100 psi fuel pressure gauge into the regulator port and set up a camera on a tripod to take video of the gauge when you are trying a hot restart that isn't starting.
I'm assuming it is cranking but just not starting.

the fuel pump runs and fine and healthy I can turn it on whenever via the misc input tab so it's probably not the pump unfortunately but idk what else it could be haha

 

[We're on Boost]

In the May 26 log you still have hot start enrichment turned on, but I imagine you've tried it with that turned off haven't you?

If you can post a log sometime of a warm start that isn't starting, maybe we would see something there.

When I reduced my cranking fuel adjust numbers I reduced them at all temps. Maybe that isn't working for your car. Maybe you need your warmer temps to have numbers more like the normal table. Like at 95, 126, 176, and 190 degrees. You could try that.
This is the normal table:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Nii]

In the May 26 log you still have hot start enrichment turned on, but I imagine you've tried it with that turned off haven't you?

If you can post a log sometime of a warm start that isn't starting, maybe we would see something there.

When I reduced my cranking fuel adjust numbers I reduced them at all temps. Maybe that isn't working for your car. Maybe you need your warmer temps to have numbers more like the normal table. Like at 95, 126, 176, and 190 degrees. You could try that.
This is the normal table:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I'll try and get a log today!

 

[We're on Boost]

For your hot start problem, you should temporarily put a 0-100 fuel pressure gauge on the regulator. You can then look at the fuel pressure while the car is sitting there hot but not running yet. Before you try to restart it. The idea is to see if the car has been sitting there for 30 minutes or whatever with 40 psi of fuel pressure. I don't think that would be bad in itself, it might even be normal, but it leaves open the possibility that your injectors are leaking fuel into the engine while it is just sitting there hot, so then it's kind of flooded when you try to hot start it. The injectors shouldn't be leaking. If they are, they are either not good or need to be cleaned. The high fuel pressure while sitting there hot gets pushed quite a bit by the heat soak, hot fuel in the lines wanting to expand and wanting to vaporize.
You should verify proper fuel pressure during hot starts anyway, with a gauge.

The regulator should let excess pressure out (pressure higher than the base pressure). But it lets pressure out by letting fuel and/or vapor out which runs down the return line, and then what you have in the lines is less volume of liquid. Presto - some of the internal volume will then be just vapor. And I guess that is how you could have vapor lock with a return line system. I don't know I haven't read this anywhere, I just made this up. But it sounds plausible.
So one thing you could try is - use the feature in ECMlink on the Misc tab called Fuel Pump Prime - I see you have it set to 2 seconds, heck try 10 seconds. Then when you turn the key, just turn it to ON, and wait 10 seconds before you turn it to CRANK. I have mine set to 5. I didn't actually need it, I just put it there to try it and it doesn't hurt anything.

You could take out a spark plug to see if it is wet and smelly. You would do that sometime when you are trying a hot start, only crank for about 2 seconds, then stop and take a plug out for the check (assuming that it doesn't start).
That could be helpful because right now we don't know if the problem is too much fuel or not enough fuel (or something else entirely).

Then there is the MPI relay. This little box has several things in it, and there is more than one relay in there.
As I understand it for our 1g cars, there is one relay in there that runs the fuel pump, and another relay in there that runs the injectors. It's possible that the relay that runs the fuel pump is working, but the relay that runs the injectors is not working when the circuit board in that little box is hot. The thing is, our MPI relay is in the cabin, not in the engine bay. So it doesn't get the heat soak that things in the engine bay get. So I don't know how likely this is to be the problem.
The part we have in the engine bay is the 20 amp fusible link that is in a little block right on the battery pos terminal. Maybe that goes temporarily bad after heat soaking.
The other part we have in the engine bay is the resistor box in the injector circuit - which you still have I guess because, low-Z injectors.

Anyway these electrical things that quit working temporarily when they are hot, a good explanation is in this video.
This is the first car fixing video I've seen in a long time that I actually like.
When he is showing the circuit diagram for the MPI relay of the car he is working on, he actually does a proper job of explaining how a relay works, which is rare. About a minute before that he talks about how solder joints can become intermittent with temperature.
His car is a Honda, and his MPI relay is called a PGM-FI Main Relay. His relay is also in the cabin, in even a cooler spot probably than ours which is right over the transmission tunnel bolted to the sheet metal center stack.

One last thing, it would be nice if we could wake up your wideband as soon as possible. Right now you only have it woke up on the ECMlink side. It also needs to be woke up on the Innovate software side, which I'll have to look at again, but the default is for it to put out a fake low voltage for the first 30 seconds which is why we were always seeing an AFR of 8 in your earlier non-start logs. So that was a fake AFR. It was never 8. That threw us off for a while. I'm going to look this up later and will post how to do it. It would be nice if we could see a real AFR immediately after it fires. Having a Post key-on prime time of 10 seconds should help with this too, should give your wideband time to warm up before you crank.

Hope you have a nice drive today!

 

[We're on Boost]

About the MPI relay - I gather from Steve's article that the part of it that sends power to the injectors also powers the ECU itself. So if that part of the MPI relay isn't working, I'm not so sure that the fuel pump would work either. Seems like just about nothing would work!

 

[We're on Boost]

From Steve's article: "Shortly after battery voltage shows up on ECU pins 102 and 107 the reset circuit in the ECU wakes the ECU up and if it boots up successfully you'll get a heartbeat on ECU pin 1, the CEL will come on for about 5 seconds and then turn off, the boost gauge will display 0 (Stock ECU software on turbo cars) and the ISC on the throttle body will move in and out to rehome."

In other words, if your CEL comes on for about 5 seconds after you turn the key to ON, then the ECU is getting power from the same part of the MPI relay that powers your injectors. So that I think should be a good check as to whether your MPI relay is working or not.

 

[Nii]

From Steve's article: "Shortly after battery voltage shows up on ECU pins 102 and 107 the reset circuit in the ECU wakes the ECU up and if it boots up successfully you'll get a heartbeat on ECU pin 1, the CEL will come on for about 5 seconds and then turn off, the boost gauge will display 0 (Stock ECU software on turbo cars) and the ISC on the throttle body will move in and out to rehome."

In other words, if your CEL comes on for about 5 seconds after you turn the key to ON, then the ECU is getting power from the same part of the MPI relay that powers your injectors. So that I think should be a good check as to whether your MPI relay is working or not.

About the MPI relay - I gather from Steve's article that the part of it that sends power to the injectors also powers the ECU itself. So if that part of the MPI relay isn't working, I'm not so sure that the fuel pump would work either. Seems like just about nothing would work!

For your hot start problem, you should temporarily put a 0-100 fuel pressure gauge on the regulator. You can then look at the fuel pressure while the car is sitting there hot but not running yet. Before you try to restart it. The idea is to see if the car has been sitting there for 30 minutes or whatever with 40 psi of fuel pressure. I don't think that would be bad in itself, it might even be normal, but it leaves open the possibility that your injectors are leaking fuel into the engine while it is just sitting there hot, so then it's kind of flooded when you try to hot start it. The injectors shouldn't be leaking. If they are, they are either not good or need to be cleaned. The high fuel pressure while sitting there hot gets pushed quite a bit by the heat soak, hot fuel in the lines wanting to expand and wanting to vaporize.
You should verify proper fuel pressure during hot starts anyway, with a gauge.

The regulator should let excess pressure out (pressure higher than the base pressure). But it lets pressure out by letting fuel and/or vapor out which runs down the return line, and then what you have in the lines is less volume of liquid. Presto - some of the internal volume will then be just vapor. And I guess that is how you could have vapor lock with a return line system. I don't know I haven't read this anywhere, I just made this up. But it sounds plausible.
So one thing you could try is - use the feature in ECMlink on the Misc tab called Fuel Pump Prime - I see you have it set to 2 seconds, heck try 10 seconds. Then when you turn the key, just turn it to ON, and wait 10 seconds before you turn it to CRANK. I have mine set to 5. I didn't actually need it, I just put it there to try it and it doesn't hurt anything.

You could take out a spark plug to see if it is wet and smelly. You would do that sometime when you are trying a hot start, only crank for about 2 seconds, then stop and take a plug out for the check (assuming that it doesn't start).
That could be helpful because right now we don't know if the problem is too much fuel or not enough fuel (or something else entirely).

Then there is the MPI relay. This little box has several things in it, and there is more than one relay in there.
As I understand it for our 1g cars, there is one relay in there that runs the fuel pump, and another relay in there that runs the injectors. It's possible that the relay that runs the fuel pump is working, but the relay that runs the injectors is not working when the circuit board in that little box is hot. The thing is, our MPI relay is in the cabin, not in the engine bay. So it doesn't get the heat soak that things in the engine bay get. So I don't know how likely this is to be the problem.
The part we have in the engine bay is the 20 amp fusible link that is in a little block right on the battery pos terminal. Maybe that goes temporarily bad after heat soaking.
The other part we have in the engine bay is the resistor box in the injector circuit - which you still have I guess because, low-Z injectors.

Anyway these electrical things that quit working temporarily when they are hot, a good explanation is in this video.
This is the first car fixing video I've seen in a long time that I actually like.
When he is showing the circuit diagram for the MPI relay of the car he is working on, he actually does a proper job of explaining how a relay works, which is rare. About a minute before that he talks about how solder joints can become intermittent with temperature.
His car is a Honda, and his MPI relay is called a PGM-FI Main Relay. His relay is also in the cabin, in even a cooler spot probably than ours which is right over the transmission tunnel bolted to the sheet metal center stack.

One last thing, it would be nice if we could wake up your wideband as soon as possible. Right now you only have it woke up on the ECMlink side. It also needs to be woke up on the Innovate software side, which I'll have to look at again, but the default is for it to put out a fake low voltage for the first 30 seconds which is why we were always seeing an AFR of 8 in your earlier non-start logs. So that was a fake AFR. It was never 8. That threw us off for a while. I'm going to look this up later and will post how to do it. It would be nice if we could see a real AFR immediately after it fires. Having a Post key-on prime time of 10 seconds should help with this too, should give your wideband time to warm up before you crank.

Hope you have a nice drive today!

In the May 26 log you still have hot start enrichment turned on, but I imagine you've tried it with that turned off haven't you?

If you can post a log sometime of a warm start that isn't starting, maybe we would see something there.

When I reduced my cranking fuel adjust numbers I reduced them at all temps. Maybe that isn't working for your car. Maybe you need your warmer temps to have numbers more like the normal table. Like at 95, 126, 176, and 190 degrees. You could try that.
This is the normal table:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I unfortunately didn't get to your messages in time but I have a lot of information! I had a theory yesterday that I was having a lot of heat soak. so I turned up my hot start enrichment and it fixed the issue but I had to turn it up a lot to be able to.

and I feel that plays into the part that my radiator fans aren't working I'm not sure if it's my wiring harnesses or the fans them selves. so I have to figure that out. as for my breaks they still suck even after fixing that leak so I think I have air in the lines. also my afr sensor is bad because it'll randomly go lean for 1 or 2 seconds sitting at 22 then going back to normal. but I was able to fix the lean issue under load while accelerating so that's something. so all in all I need a new afr sensor possibly new rad fans and I need to bleed my breaks again possibly? thank you for all the information!

 

[We're on Boost]

I turned up my hot start enrichment and it fixed the issue but I had to turn it up a lot to be able to.

I thought you could only turn hot start enrichment on or off, didn't think it could be adjusted up or down. Do you mean you adjusted Cranking Fuel Adjust at the high temps?

 

[Nii]

I thought you could only turn hot start enrichment on or off, didn't think it could be adjusted up or down. Do you mean you adjusted Cranking Fuel Adjust at the high temps?

yes sorry haha

 

[We're on Boost]

the default is for it to put out a fake low voltage for the first 30 seconds which is why we were always seeing an AFR of 8 in your earlier non-start logs. So that was a fake AFR. It was never 8. That threw us off for a while. I'm going to look this up later and will post how to do it. It would be nice if we could see a real AFR immediately after it fires.

I don't think you can change this. I looked again, I must have read it wrong before. Now all I can see is that it will put out a fake low voltage (AFR = about 8) until it decides that the sensor is warmed up enough to function correctly. It decides that time all by itself, I don't think you can do anything about it. It says the normal warm-up period is about 30 seconds.
As near as I can tell from the manual, it starts putting out a real (correct) voltage when the green LED stops flashing and stays on solid.
Too bad, but at least you know to disregard those AFR=8 readings that you get right after startup.

 

[We're on Boost]

also my afr sensor is bad because it'll randomly go lean for 1 or 2 seconds sitting at 22 then going back to normal.

This might be normal depending on when it happens. During coast-down (foot off the gas) your Injector On times normally go to 0 for some of the coast-down. Then the injectors come back on at some point. When the injectors are off, you'd get the 22 AFR.
If you posted a log showing some AFR 22 that you are suspicious of, we could take a look at it to see what is going on there.

If you do replace the sensor on the LC2, you should know that yours could have come with either an LSU 4.2 or an LSU 4.9 sensor. I think you can use either one but there are some things to know about it.
I think they actually had different electrical plugs.
Oh yeah, here's the section from the manual:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Nii]

This might be normal depending on when it happens. During coast-down (foot off the gas) your Injector On times normally go to 0 for some of the coast-down. Then the injectors come back on at some point. When the injectors are off, you'd get the 22 AFR.
If you posted a log showing some AFR 22 that you are suspicious of, we could take a look at it to see what is going on there.

If you do replace the sensor on the LC2, you should know that yours could have come with either an LSU 4.2 or an LSU 4.9 sensor. I think you can use either one but there are some things to know about it.
I think they actually had different electrical plugs.
Oh yeah, here's the section from the manual:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

thank you! I'll upload my logs soon!