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ECMlink 1G MAP sensor reads positive

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Nii

Proven Member
82
38
Jun 22, 2021
Midwest City, Oklahoma
I'm having issues getting my 1g to idle. I have a lot I need to dial in like fuel trims, AFR, and what not but I want to figure out why my MAP reads positive with key on and at idle. I'm seeing around 5psi on the GM 3bar and ECU boost is very similar.

Have y'all had this issue before?
 

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here are some photos. the air to water setup has been leak tested and there are no leaks

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Good pics!
Unfortunately, I don't know much about the S90 throttle body.
Do you use a blockoff plate or a bypass plate to block the FIAV openings? (With the stock TBs we would use a bypass plate).
Do you have to mount the ISC remotely and connect it to the TB with a hose?
I don't know what kind of TPS you are supposed to use with it.
And I can't find a user manual or installation manual for the S90.
I do see that they have a BISS screw though LOL

"vban air to water setup" - that's your intercooler isn't it?

Looks like a whole lot of work has been done in that engine bay.
Holy cats it looks like you've been welding some aluminum. Looks like a fitting welded into the outlet of the thermostat housing, and 2 breather fittings welded into the valve cover?
 
Good pics!
Unfortunately, I don't know much about the S90 throttle body.
Do you use a blockoff plate or a bypass plate to block the FIAV openings? (With the stock TBs we would use a bypass plate).
Do you have to mount the ISC remotely and connect it to the TB with a hose?
I don't know what kind of TPS you are supposed to use with it.
And I can't find a user manual or installation manual for the S90.
I do see that they have a BISS screw though LOL

"vban air to water setup" - that's your intercooler isn't it?

Looks like a whole lot of work has been done in that engine bay.
Holy cats it looks like you've been welding some aluminum. Looks like a fitting welded into the outlet of the thermostat housing, and 2 breather fittings welded into the valve cover?
Thank you! she's one of my pride and joys!

I've done a lot of work to the engine haha! I don't have an isc I it was deleted along with fiav 😂 It's just has a plate directly under the tb and those parameters are simulated within link. And looking into it for a second not having and isc might be my issue 🤔
I've been focusing on one thing at a time with this build which began with learning how to build the engine and learning fabrication from my buddy Tyler. he helped me with the aluminum welding since my welder is a DC Tig welder. but I did everything else from measuring to cutting the cuts to my air to water setup. to fabrication of all my lines (fuel,coolant and air to water coolant lines) to welding up my side dump and to building the engine myself! 😂 and now I've been learning electrical and tuning! my plan is to get the engine running correctly and get it dialed in then transfer it to an AWD shell I'm restoring from the ground up haha. I also plan to completely build my wiring harnesses from the ground up before I transfer it but that's for later😂 since I'm not super familiar with all the different sensors and wiring idiosyncrasies that dsms have I'm not the best at gauging what I need and don't need fully yet😂 this is my first ever car project and I'm not trained mechanic this car is just a culmination of 5 years of stubbornness and tons of research and lessons and courses and I'm currently still learning 😂

so I greatly appreciate all this information and feed back and critiques I can get🙏🏿🙏🏿 I'm still a newbie so I'm trying to soak in all the information I can get!
 
Tyler. he helped me with the aluminum welding since my welder is a DC Tig welder.
Yeah! That's awesome. I learned some welding in classes but never learned TIG. Had a couple good opportunities to learn it later but never did. Stick welding and Oxy-acetylene are what I've done a decent amount of. But that's why when I do a fabrication project now, it's usually bolt-together style things. Basically anything that I can do with a vertical bandsaw and a drill press. So I'm impressed when I see welds like you have on those parts where you've welded new aluminum fittings to the old cast aluminum stuff that's on the car.

I've done a lot of work to the engine haha! I don't have an isc I it was deleted along with fiav 😂 It's just has a plate directly under the tb and those parameters are simulated within link. And looking into it for a second not having and isc might be my issue 🤔
Well, you really should have an ISC. You can do without the FIAV but the ISC is really helpful. My car uses a new stock ISC (Standard Motor Products AC146) in a Boomba Racing throttle body, but no FIAV. So when you look at my log that has a cold start, that is what you could expect to get with the ISC but no FIAV configuration if you had it.

So I would look into what you have to do to put an ISC on it.
Still, I think there's more wrong than that.

I've gotta be gone this afternoon, but I can look at it more tonight.
It's bugging me that your airflow numbers are the same as mine shortly after the cold start (1.8 to 2.0 lbs/min), but the Manifold vacuum numbers are way different.
I'm looking at 29.566 secs in my log which is just before the ISC starts to step down from 120 steps.
And comparing things there to your 2026.04.24-01 log at 472.373 secs.
Everything is pretty similar except for manifold vacuum! Mine is -13.2 inHG, yours is -3.6 inHg!

then transfer it to an AWD shell I'm restoring from the ground up haha
Aha, I was wondering about that. Good!
 
Yeah! That's awesome. I learned some welding in classes but never learned TIG. Had a couple good opportunities to learn it later but never did. Stick welding and Oxy-acetylene are what I've done a decent amount of. But that's why when I do a fabrication project now, it's usually bolt-together style things. Basically anything that I can do with a vertical bandsaw and a drill press. So I'm impressed when I see welds like you have on those parts where you've welded new aluminum fittings to the old cast aluminum stuff that's on the car.


Well, you really should have an ISC. You can do without the FIAV but the ISC is really helpful. My car uses a new stock ISC (Standard Motor Products AC146) in a Boomba Racing throttle body, but no FIAV. So when you look at my log that has a cold start, that is what you could expect to get with the ISC but no FIAV configuration if you had it.

So I would look into what you have to do to put an ISC on it.
Still, I think there's more wrong than that.

I've gotta be gone this afternoon, but I can look at it more tonight.
It's bugging me that your airflow numbers are the same as mine shortly after the cold start (1.8 to 2.0 lbs/min), but the Manifold vacuum numbers are way different.
I'm looking at 29.566 secs in my log which is just before the ISC starts to step down from 120 steps.
And comparing things there to your 2026.04.24-01 log at 472.373 secs.
Everything is pretty similar except for manifold vacuum! Mine is -13.2 inHG, yours is -3.6 inHg!


Aha, I was wondering about that. Good!
it will just bolt on to the s90 so it'll be an easy installation I still have the stock bottom half of the OEM throttle body so it'll work out I just gotta find a day to pull my TB and install it. I feel like the isc could fix it because then I wouldn't have to have the throttle body plate open so much LOL so we will see haha! bud I'm not 100% sure that would solve it unfortunately 😭
 
it will just bolt on to the s90 so it'll be an easy installation I still have the stock bottom half of the OEM throttle body so it'll work out I just gotta find a day to pull my TB and install it.
If you have to bolt on the bottom half of the stock TB, then you would have the FIAV too? And if your FIAV is messed up and you want to block the FIAV without blocking the ISC, then do you use a Bypass Plate just like you would with the stock TB? I never messed with any of that stuff until I had the Boomba throttle body, and then it was just the ISC, no FIAV.
 
I feel like the isc could fix it because then I wouldn't have to have the throttle body plate open so much LOL so we will see haha! bud I'm not 100% sure that would solve it unfortunately 😭
Right, well I think whenever you have time to take the cover off the ecu and take some good shots of the circuit board, you should go ahead and do that.

There is a trick that you should know, and you could try it out if you want, even as things are now.
The trick is, you can make it richer or leaner in real time while the engine is running.
So if the problem is that it's getting a wrong amount of fuel, you can figure out whether it wants more fuel, or less.

The hard part is that the engine needs to be running.

When you are Connected, there is a checkbox on the Fuel tab that says "Save changes to ECU as they are made". You won't see that checkbox unless your laptop is Connected to the car.

So check that box, and then with the engine running you can change the Global Deadtime number up or down to see which way makes the engine run better. That's in microseconds. You need 100 microseconds just to get 0.1 millisecond which is what we see in the logs. So you need to crank this deadtime number up or down by hundreds of microseconds to make much difference.

The up and down arrows are a little slow for going a few hundred µs, so if you want to make the changes faster you can key them in. Add deadtime to make it richer, subtract deadtime to make it leaner.
Your deadtime is set to 0, so you might think that you can't make it smaller. But I see that you can put negative numbers into that field. I've never tried putting negative numbers in there so I'm not really sure that it will actually take negative. But I don't know why not. If you put in -333 it should subtract 0.333 ms from your InjOn time. Or if you put in 333 it should add 0.333 ms to your InjOn time.

If you have messed around with carburetor engines that have a low-speed mixture screw or an idle mixture screw, it's kind of like that.

This isn't the normal purpose of the Deadtime setting of course, but it's a good trick to use temporarily.
If you can actually keep the engine running like this, remember that as the engine warms up it will want to be leaner.

Here's the checkbox on the fuel tab, bottom towards the right.

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If you have to bolt on the bottom half of the stock TB, then you would have the FIAV too? And if your FIAV is messed up and you want to block the FIAV without blocking the ISC, then do you use a Bypass Plate just like you would with the stock TB? I never messed with any of that stuff until I had the Boomba throttle body, and then it was just the ISC, no FIAV.

I think you do just use a block off plate I also found a form that showed a Nissan ISC that they were able to put 3/8 nipple fittings on to allow a remote mounted ISC so that might be something that I do as well they just had to add a fitting before and after the throttle body for the ISC to work.

Right, well I think whenever you have time to take the cover off the ecu and take some good shots of the circuit board, you should go ahead and do that.

There is a trick that you should know, and you could try it out if you want, even as things are now.
The trick is, you can make it richer or leaner in real time while the engine is running.
So if the problem is that it's getting a wrong amount of fuel, you can figure out whether it wants more fuel, or less.

The hard part is that the engine needs to be running.

When you are Connected, there is a checkbox on the Fuel tab that says "Save changes to ECU as they are made". You won't see that checkbox unless your laptop Connected to the car.

So check that box, and then with the engine running you can change the Global Deadtime number up or down to see which way makes the engine run better. That's in microseconds. You need 100 microseconds just to get 0.1 millisecond which is what we see in the logs. So you need to crank this deadtime number up or down by hundreds of microseconds to make much difference.

The up and down arrows are a little slow for going a few hundred µs, so if you want to make the changes faster you can key them in. Add deadtime to make it richer, subtract deadtime to make it leaner.
Your deadtime is set to 0, and I see that you can put negative numbers into that field. I've never tried putting negative numbers in there so I'm not really sure that it will actually take negative. But I don't know why not. If you put in -333 it should subtract 0.333 ms from your InjOn time. Or if you put in 333 it should add 0.333 to your InjOn time.

If you have messed around with carburetor engines that have a low-speed mixture screw, it's kind of like that.

This isn't the normal purpose of the Deadtime setting of course, but it's a good trick to use temporarily.
If you can actually keep the engine running like this, remember that as the engine warms up it will want to be leaner.

Here's the checkbox on the fuel tab, bottom towards the right.

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I haven't messed with the global dead times, I haven't gone around to do anything with it. I think when I was entering in my parameters for my fuel injectors that ended up populating over there. I should fix that though. thank you for noticing that! I have been able to idle the car before and get it up to operating temperature in the past and I idled it pretty well for a long time. it's just that when I would try to give a throttle it would bog. and it'd be really rich. so I've been trying to figure out how to get that sweet spot where the idol is where it's supposed to be without it. bogging then also without it being extremely rich.

Thank you for the help and I'll try and get ECU pictures soon!
 
I think when I was entering in my parameters for my fuel injectors that ended up populating over there.
This is actually right, it's how you are supposed to do it if the injector manufacturer gives you a table of deadtime values versus voltage. You put the values into the InjBatteryAdj table and you leave the Global Deadtime at 0. The InjBatteryAdj table is supposed to be the "base table". Global Deadtime is more for just tweaking the whole thing later if you want to. A major difference is that Global Deadtime is in ECUConfig where you can "Save changes to ECU as they are made". You can't do that in Direct Access where the InjBatteryAdj table is.

I have been able to idle the car before and get it up to operating temperature in the past and I idled it pretty well for a long time. it's just that when I would try to give a throttle it would bog. and it'd be really rich.
Do you have any logs of it running like that?
When it got warm, what kind of AFR numbers were you getting from the wideband?
When everything is working like it's supposed to on a 1g, it will go into closed loop as the coolant temperature goes past 87 degrees F. Then you can learn a lot from the fuel trims.
 
Do you have any logs of it running like that?
When it got warm, what kind of AFR numbers were you getting from the wideband?
When everything is working like it's supposed to on a 1g, it will go into closed loop as the coolant temperature goes past 87 degrees F. Then you can learn a lot from the fuel trims.
I'll see if I do but I think I didn't log then at the time 😬😬
 
I'll see if I do but I think I didn't log then at the time 😬😬
If you don't have, no big deal. We'll probably find something like what you read in posts 47 and 48 in that thread with the guy in Sweden.
If we do, sending it to ECMtuning to get fixed is not a terrible thing. It's actually one of the easiest and least expensive services that we have with these cars. They are not at all overpriced and they are pretty quick usually.
 
I DROVE IT (for a little) It dose not like to start up after stalling tho :/

I installed an oem isc into my tb!

here are the ecu picks

@steve

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I DROVE IT (for a little) It dose not like to start up after stalling tho :/

I installed an oem isc into my tb!

here are the ecu picks

@steve

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it drives pretty well just need to dial in the ve table some more. it doesn't like to start when it's warmed up. it has to sit for an hour or so before it'll start again 😭 I already put a new coolant temperature sensor in too.
 
Was the ISC installed when you ran that log?
Could you shoot a pic of how the ISC looks on the throttle body?

That log sure had some strange stuff.
Engine finally started to actually run at 357 sec after dozens of cranks.
At 371 sec the LC2 all of a sudden shot from AFR 8 to 19. I don't know why, nothing else changed that I could see. Engine kept running the same.
When the LC2 AFR came down it went into closed loop! That happened at 403 sec just after coolant temp went over 87 degrees.

Then once into closed loop it kept running. And it stayed in closed loop to the end. During that closed loop time, the LC2 AFRs were mostly in the 14 - 15 range just like they should be in closed loop, and the Front O2 was cycling properly.
Combined Fuel Trims were pretty jumping around but mostly not over +/- 10 so not too bad.

The GM3Bar MAP numbers never looked right the whole time. Although I saw -11 inHg for a second at 1220 sec when you were trailing throttle at 3000rpm and 30 mph. That's the most vacuum I've seen on the car so far. But it should have been more like -22 inHg at that condition. So still very strange.

The TPS started fluttering, jumping up and down very fast at around 1156 sec. Tall narrow spikes in the TPS with only 0.1 to 0.2 seconds from peak to peak in some places. Your foot couldn't have been going that fast. So must be something wrong with that.

Phew! 😅
 
Just to make sure we have the right lay-of-the-land about the engine:
It's a fresh new build that isn't even broken in yet, right?
Valves were ground and lapped?
New rings and pistons - cylinder walls bored and honed?
yes the ISC is installed and it bolts on just like the stock throttle body. I just didn't hook up any coolant lines LOL.

yeah it did take a while to start I had to readjust the throttle plate and I forgot to plug back in the cas haha but after I did the two it started like a charm I think I have a new log of it starting pretty easy! the lc2 has a warm-up period that it'll just read 7 and 8 till the o2 element is full warmed up then it runs properly so that could have been what you saw when it was reading 8 until it jumped. and yeah the vacuum never seems correct to me either. and I'm not sure what it is yet. also the whole time I was driving I had no front brakes. the brake booster just wasn't working properly. I also noticed that when I'd step on the breaks the car would lean out a bit so I just had to use my handbrake to brake. I think my one way valve is going out possibly 🤔

as for the engine, I did all the work except for the machine work. I did lap the valves myself and left water in the valve portion of the head over night to make sure there weren't any leaks, I put together my manly Pistons and rods and ground the ring end Gap. the engine was honed it was also decked the crank was ground and I had the rotating assembly balanced. and it was completely cleaned. I did the piston ring seating process where I was ramping through different RPMs at idle and holding it at different RPMs for a while. at that point the car was still pretty funky, but if it I gave it a lot of air through the throttle plate it would idle so I was able to at least seat the piston rings. and currently since I'm just doing small maiden voyages, I'm still on breaking oil and I'll probably continue running brake and oil for a while. I changed my breaking oil after I seated the piston rings and put a new oil in there and after I can get a proper longer drive I will change the oil again. another thing, I noticed that at certain points the idle would hang. so I do think my throttle cable might be catching a bit. and then another thing I noticed was sometimes when I was accelerating in gear it would lean out pretty hard. but I think that's just me needing to go through the table and edit a few cells. I'll get a picture to you hopefully tomorrow, but it of the throttle body, but everything's virtually the same as the stock throttle body. you just have a larger inlet and you don't have coolant passages in a couple other things on the s90. so it was really easy to just bolt on the stock isc haha it took me like 10 minutes in total. another thing with the car is that it refuses to start hot. if it's ran for a little bit and I kill the car it will not start until I let it sit for about an hour or so. I thought I could be vapor locking the fuel rail but that's not the issue and then I also thought it could have been the cooling temperature sensor but I put a new one in and I still have that same issue. so if you have any information on what could be going on I think I'm possibly flooding the engine but I'm not sure any information would help a ton!

I appreciate all the help and we're slowly getting it figured out!
 
yes the ISC is installed and it bolts on just like the stock throttle body. I just didn't hook up any coolant lines LOL.

yeah it did take a while to start I had to readjust the throttle plate and I forgot to plug back in the cas haha but after I did the two it started like a charm I think I have a new log of it starting pretty easy! the lc2 has a warm-up period that it'll just read 7 and 8 till the o2 element is full warmed up then it runs properly so that could have been what you saw when it was reading 8 until it jumped. and yeah the vacuum never seems correct to me either. and I'm not sure what it is yet. also the whole time I was driving I had no front brakes. the brake booster just wasn't working properly. I also noticed that when I'd step on the breaks the car would lean out a bit so I just had to use my handbrake to brake. I think my one way valve is going out possibly 🤔

as for the engine, I did all the work except for the machine work. I did lap the valves myself and left water in the valve portion of the head over night to make sure there weren't any leaks, I put together my manly Pistons and rods and ground the ring end Gap. the engine was honed it was also decked the crank was ground and I had the rotating assembly balanced. and it was completely cleaned. I did the piston ring seating process where I was ramping through different RPMs at idle and holding it at different RPMs for a while. at that point the car was still pretty funky, but if it I gave it a lot of air through the throttle plate it would idle so I was able to at least seat the piston rings. and currently since I'm just doing small maiden voyages, I'm still on breaking oil and I'll probably continue running brake and oil for a while. I changed my breaking oil after I seated the piston rings and put a new oil in there and after I can get a proper longer drive I will change the oil again. another thing, I noticed that at certain points the idle would hang. so I do think my throttle cable might be catching a bit. and then another thing I noticed was sometimes when I was accelerating in gear it would lean out pretty hard. but I think that's just me needing to go through the table and edit a few cells. I'll get a picture to you hopefully tomorrow, but it of the throttle body, but everything's virtually the same as the stock throttle body. you just have a larger inlet and you don't have coolant passages in a couple other things on the s90. so it was really easy to just bolt on the stock isc haha it took me like 10 minutes in total.

I appreciate all the help and we're slowly getting it figured out!

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MD166262 6578M non-EPROM ECU converted to support ECMLink. I assume you have the screws and retainer that attach the PCB to the case. The retainer that holds the EPROM conversion board down so it doesn't wiggle off it's socket.

Quite a bit of conformal coating removed to both sides, I can't tell if the piled up under the pins of IC111 or if there is some corrosion going on to them. WRT the MAP sensor readings I've had to repair the circuits on IC101 in the past. It's job is to condition the incoming analog signals before they go to the ADC in the processor. I'd try measuring the sensor's voltage at both ends, the sensor output and the ECU connector to see if the ECU raw values match the actual. You can connect a vacuum pump to the MAP sensor nipple to force a vacuum reading. If your logs show more reasonable MAP values than perhaps this is old news.
 
It's job is to condition the incoming analog signals before they go to the ADC in the processor.
This is the kind of thing I've been suspecting. The goofiness of the signals from the MAP and wideband could come from something like this I would think. And maybe the goofy signals from the TPS too?

Would it help any to get pictures that are from a different angle or more sharply focused, or taken from a little closer, more zoomed in to a particular area?
 
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so it was really easy to just bolt on the stock isc haha it took me like 10 minutes in total.
Before you put the ISC in, what was there? Was it just an open hole? That would have let more air in. But letting more air in at the throttle body doesn't hurt much when you are speed density. It would if you were MAF.

yeah it did take a while to start I had to readjust the throttle plate and I forgot to plug back in the cas haha but after I did the two it started like a charm I think I have a new log of it starting pretty easy!
Well that's awesome. But previous logs also had multiple cranks and hard starting. Just not as bad 🤣

the lc2 has a warm-up period that it'll just read 7 and 8 till the o2 element is full warmed up then it runs properly so that could have been what you saw when it was reading 8 until it jumped
Right, I see stuff about warmup in the LC2 manual. It says that by default it puts out 0 volts until warmup is over, and the green status light should flash twice per second during that period.
Yours was putting out about 0.2 volts during warmup (according to the raw voltage) and then when warmup was done the raw voltage jumped to about 4.0 volts (20 AFR) for 25 more seconds before it finally got real and came down and went into closed loop. That 25 seconds at AFR 20 seems weird. But maybe that is still just a quirk of the wideband.
another thing with the car is that it refuses to start hot.
This I really have no idea. If you think it's flooding, you could try turning off Hot Start Enrichment on the Misc tab. Doubt that's it though. My car has that turned on.
Vapor lock is almost impossible with a return line type fuel system like we have.
I think I've seen threads in here about this problem though.


Sounds like you did all the right stuff with the engine rebuild!
 
MD166262 6578M non-EPROM ECU converted to support ECMLink. I assume you have the screws and retainer that attach the PCB to the case. The retainer that holds the EPROM conversion board down so it doesn't wiggle off it's socket.

Quite a bit of conformal coating removed to both sides, I can't tell if the piled up under the pins of IC111 or if there is some corrosion going on to them. WRT the MAP sensor readings I've had to repair the circuits on IC101 in the past. It's job is to condition the incoming analog signals before they go to the ADC in the processor. I'd try measuring the sensor's voltage at both ends, the sensor output and the ECU connector to see if the ECU raw values match the actual. You can connect a vacuum pump to the MAP sensor nipple to force a vacuum reading. If your logs show more reasonable MAP values than perhaps this is old news.
yes I've got all the retainers and screws I just took it apart to get some photos of the PCB for ya 🫡 and I did notice a lot of the coating was everywhere but I think I also noticed some corrosion. and I am still having odd reading from the ecu in the vacuum portion thank you for the help!
 
Before you put the ISC in, what was there? Was it just an open hole? That would have let more air in. But letting more air in at the throttle body doesn't hurt much when you are speed density. It would if you were MAF.


Well that's awesome. But previous logs also had multiple cranks and hard starting. Just not as bad 🤣


Right, I see stuff about warmup in the LC2 manual. It says that by default it puts out 0 volts until warmup is over, and the green status light should flash twice per second during that period.
Yours was putting out about 0.2 volts during warmup (according to the raw voltage) and then when warmup was done the raw voltage jumped to about 4.0 volts (20 AFR) for 25 more seconds before it finally got real and came down and went into closed loop. That 25 seconds at AFR 20 seems weird. But maybe that is still just a quirk of the wideband.

This I really have no idea. If you think it's flooding, you could try turning off Hot Start Enrichment on the Misc tab. Doubt that's it though. My car has that turned on.
Vapor lock is almost impossible with a return line type fuel system like we have.
I think I've seen threads in here about this problem though.


Sounds like you did all the right stuff with the engine rebuild!
before the ISC was installed it was just a flat plate covering it all.

I think it probably was just a wideband Quark since it operated perfectly fine after and it's been consistent with doing that haha

it is confusing on why it hates to start warm. I have tried disabling hot start enrichment and I still have the same issue. and I'm also confused on how I could be flooding the engine even though my Afrs look great during idle and driving for the most part. if anything, I'm a little more lean than rich. I've read through the forums and that is where I heard about vapor lock and the coolant temperature sensor but unfortunately neither have solved my problem 🫤

thanks I did so much studying before I built the engine and did my best to do everything by the books haha!

I'll see if I can find time to get under the dash and check voltage to different components

thank y'all!! I appreciate you guys a ton!!
 
yeah I think I have that log saved it's sound the same as the first log though. so I'm not completely sure what it could be!
In the video in post #67 it's running really really rough, and the AFR shown on the wideband is OK so it's apparently not from being too rich or too lean.
Could you post the log for that?
 
yeah I think I have that log saved it's sound the same as the first log though. so I'm not completely sure what it could be!
my cams are 280s aswell so they are really aggressive LOL
 
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