18x9 +12 Saleen Wheels!

[Ludachris]

Hey, this is the appearance forum so I'm not going to argue too much about the handling aspects. But make no mistake about it, lowering the car like this might make it feel "sportier" than it did in stock form but it won't handle "better" due to the geometry being all screwed up and further reducing the already limited suspension travel. If you do this, you do so knowing it's not going to handle well and just live with the crappy ride and the premature failure of the shocks in order to get the look you're after. If you expect it to handle well you're fooling yourself. This is done for looks only, with the positive side effect of less body roll (usually because you're riding on bump stops).

With all that said, keep it up if you like it. It's not the favorite of the majority here but who cares.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Careful. Some people might read the above as a handling issue which removes the ban on my commenting. What defines whether the drop is too much is the angle of the lower lateral arm, not the fender gap.

On a daily driven car lowering it further than that isn't really a problem. I mean honestly. If you drive the car on the track only for money and have issues with it being too low, then why not, raise it up. test and tune your suspension. But this car isn't a track car. I have to drive this car up a steep driveway every day. I have a candied engine bay! Full Interior! Subwoofer.... and Air Conditioning! Of course looks are just a priority as performance.

All bickering aside, OP I love the way your car sits/looks. Exactly the look I would want on my 2g. IMO these cars look amazing with a really low stance and flush fitment and the Saleen wheels make it that much better! So, kudos to you! And I will be saving those pictures and adding them to my desktop slideshow

EDIT: and by the way, what is your suspension setup? I tried to skim through the posts but I didn't see anything about it.

Tokico Illumina 5way Adjustable Shocks with GC Coils. Not recomended imho if you are needy for comfort. They handle great but are quite stiff, one could get irritated.

Thank you for the comment. I appreciate it. The car is my pride and joy. Even tho I wont be driving around this low because like I said its impossible without damaging the sub frame inside the fender and your tires. But will be as low as possible without hurting my personal comfort.

While the wheels themselves look dope, car is too low with too much camber. And as far as you saying that people don't take pride in their cars appearance, I'm offended by this statement because both me and a friend of mine are both restoring our cars inside and out because we like the way a fresh, clean dsm looks. Not to mention I'm gonna be running around 600hp and my friends gonna be somewhere around 750. None of our cars are hellaflush, or looks like poop status, just clean and fast. I agree though that there should be more people who take pride in the appearance as well.

Hey, calm down. I don't mean everyone. Just most. 25% of the owners of 90-99 Eclipse Laser and Talons have body kits that are unpainted and beaten to hell. I hate rice but know I have some riced things in my car like my engine bay. Another 50% I'd say of the DSM Community are in that group that only cares for performance. Primer, bad paint, damaged body, huge turbo and engine. Then there are the remaining that do take pride in it. Like Paul Volk, Beau Anderson, And many others that have it all. Clean paint, clean engine bays, clean interior, big motors, big turbo's, hell big brakes and full suspension builds and all of that.

While you may think my car has too much camber, it really doesn't. Sure it does have some negative camber and in the DSM Crowd negative camber is a no no. Its not like I went hella stupid on it. Seriously...

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And sure the pictures right now show the car slammed with less than 2" of space under the car but thats just pictures. I've already stated the car wont be like that when finalized. It will be more like that picture I just posted. Tires level with the fender lip. And I will still leave stock camber alone. Because the suspension does take care of itself. I lift the car, less camber! IF I adjust the camber to have no camber, then I risk damage to tires and fenders on every bump, turn, launch.... or fat person. Instead I'm leaving it alone, and letting the tires have safe travel into the fenders.

Its really not that bad, that everyone is making it out to be. I know for a fact that it will handle better than it did when I had 0 front camber and was on 1.7/1.4" drop. The 'AWD' Car handled like ass. You guys might think that the front nose diving into a turn is spot on handling but I have a different definition for that... CRAP! And Scary! And Unsafe. I'm going to make sure I'm low enough for my liking, as well as having enough suspension travel without hitting my shocks safety or the bump stops. The car wont be slammed and hella stupid or whatever you think. It is all good!

 

[gprix1]

I was going to try and say something nice but then I gotta be honest and say what I really think.
If you are only concerned with looks than I have nothing negative to say. To each there own. Stretch tires is not my style but if you like the look then great.
However, since you are of the postion that you have enhanced the handling well that's something else entirely.
Performance-wise you would get smoked by a properly setup DSM. Acceleration and more importantly braking would be crap. Personally, I'd rather be considered an elitist snob by hondu boyz than ignorant by the guys who know their sh!t.
If you are adjusting suspension regularly then I would suggest something like this Camber Caster Tool to setup your suspension properly.

 

[jrohner]

Is that why Lemans, Indy, NASCAR and others HAVE been using Camber, Caster and Toe adjustments to affect handling? I see it all the time on NASCAR. Every damn race they have some team messing with the negative and positive camber to aim for better handling. Have you ever seen a Road Race Stock Car? More Negative camber on both sides than my car.

You're really comparing a DSM to NASCAR? Or even how you use your car to NASCAR? They don't TOUCH that stuff DURING a race unless they got it messed up in a crash (the time that wouldld take would put them multiple laps down). They also use tire temps & wear to adjust that stuff, lets see your tire temp & wear charts to show you need that much camber.

Also, if camber was not detrimental to tire wear, they wouldn't talk about how they blew tires because they were too aggressive with camber settings at certain tracks. How to you does it even make sense that a part of a tire that isn't even really touching the ground would wear the same as the rest of the tire? Yeah right.

NASCAR also would NOT have instant centers that are under the pavement like you do. It would not work. They design their suspension geometry for handling, and don't design it and then drop the car down another 4 inches without another thought other than 'lower is better, so this must me a lot better'.

Comparing anything to do with your car to NASCAR or any other high-level racing? Come on.

 

[95talongirl]

^ el oh el!! Well said! (as with some of the other replies here about proper suspension geometry)

Yup, this is appearance, ONLY. And in that respects, it looks all right. Too low for my taste, as the roads here would just tear a car that low apart.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

You're really comparing a DSM to NASCAR? Or even how you use your car to NASCAR? They don't TOUCH that stuff DURING a race unless they got it messed up in a crash (the time that wouldld take would put them multiple laps down). They also use tire temps & wear to adjust that stuff, lets see your tire temp & wear charts to show you need that much camber.

Also, if camber was not detrimental to tire wear, they wouldn't talk about how they blew tires because they were too aggressive with camber settings at certain tracks. How to you does it even make sense that a part of a tire that isn't even really touching the ground would wear the same as the rest of the tire? Yeah right.

NASCAR also would NOT have instant centers that are under the pavement like you do. It would not work. They design their suspension geometry for handling, and don't design it and then drop the car down another 4 inches without another thought other than 'lower is better, so this must me a lot better'.

Comparing anything to do with your car to NASCAR or any other high-level racing? Come on.

First off, someone else brought up NASCAR. Second off, YES they do touch that stuff during races. ALL THE TIME! Pay attention if you've ever watched a race, teams are adjusting toe, camber, caster as well as spring/ride height and shock stiffness. ALL THE TIME! Every race, they show a team or two adjusting.

Come On! Right back at ya. RE Read. Someone else brought it up stating that I ruined my handling by doing what I did. Well if all you idiots would pay attention, I mentioned that the car ***WONT*** be this low on the final result when the cars new engine is done and running. The car is ***RESTING ON THE SUBFRAME***! AKA (Also Known As) the car wont move! Try that one on for handling. I said As much as I love the way it looks slammed like this with my HARDLY ANY NEGATIVE CAMBER, I am forced to raise the car up some to allow for my tires to MOVE and for additional Suspension Travel, where there is EVEN LESS CAMBER.

Again I may not be some track star but I'm not a newbie to this shit, guys common I drive my car every day (well not right now cause... yeah). I know how the car handles. I know that it will handle better because it will. I didn't make it worse by adding a LITTLE BIT OF CAMBER by Lowering it another 2 ADDITIONAL INCHES on top of the 1.5" I had that HANDLED LIKE ASS and was DANGEROUS!

Thank you for your apparent concerns. Again, I will enjoy my enhanced handling with my little bit of camber on my... ehh I'd say 2.5" Drop when all is said and done. And since its a sin, Oh well I'm going to hell already!

Thank you!

^ el oh el!! Well said! (as with some of the other replies here about proper suspension geometry)

Yup, this is appearance, ONLY. And in that respects, it looks all right. Too low for my taste, as the roads here would just tear a car that low apart.

Well if anyone would read, the car wont see the road how low it is. People need to go back to school, mainly the how to read section. These pictures shows the car on the subframe. Car Wont Move! Pictures were just for pictures and eye candy and for me to stare at for the next couple weeks while I build my car.

 

[jrohner]

First off, someone else brought up NASCAR. Second off, YES they do touch that stuff during races. ALL THE TIME! Pay attention if you've ever watched a race, teams are adjusting toe, camber, caster as well as spring/ride height and shock stiffness. ALL THE TIME! Every race, they show a team or two adjusting.

If they adjusted ride height during a race, they would likely be disqualified after the race since the rules are so strict.

The only spring change they do is remove or add a spring rubber to adjust spring rate (and adjust tire pressures which adjusts 'spring rate' of the tires). They can't run coilovers, so spring changes would NOT be quick; that's what practice is for. You can't just start screwing with caster and camber because they effect each other, so it's not a quick process; even if they did just start cranking on stuff to do it quick, it would put them laps down in the time it takes. If they could do it so quickly they would, instead of spending the race saying they wish they would've had less camber in their setup since their tires are getting destroyed on the inside.

Wedge (crossweight), track bar, tire pressure, and spring rubbers are the only common adjustments they do, since they can do them quickly (even installing a spring rubber takes longer than they really want to spend so they don't do it much, so they start with one and remove it if necessary). On road courses they have more time so they can do more, but track position is even more important on a road course since passing is so tough (why I think roadracing is boring -- can't go lap after lap side by side).

 

[95talongirl]

Well if anyone would read, the car wont see the road how low it is. People need to go back to school, mainly the how to read section. These pictures shows the car on the subframe. Car Wont Move! Pictures were just for pictures and eye candy and for me to stare at for the next couple weeks while I build my car.

Then don't go arguing about suspension setups/tire stretching/ect. if this is not what you were going for to begin with.

 

[jrohner]

Then don't go arguing about suspension setups/tire stretching/ect. if this is not what you were going for to begin with.

+1.

& I disagree that a car sitting on the ground looks good (even if the camber was decent). I would just pull the wheels & tires off and set the car right on the ground, then it would really look cool (we wouldn't have to argue about tire wear then either).

 

[InfiniteGSX]

No. People need to pull the tampon out of their twat and quit bitching like its the end of the world. A little bit of camber won't hurt anything. My hardly stretched tires won't hurt anything. My 2" lower than 'legit' drop won't hurt anything. Except your feelings. It's not that big of a deal. Everything is right on the car in my messed up clean standards.

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

Yeah you are right, the car looks like ass!



I don't have a lot of camber. I don't have any caster changes from stock. And I don't have a 9.5" rim. Why must we all be the same, with tires that look like shit on our wheels, with ugly small wheels, with 4x4 suspension. Sorry, I don't like your car. BUT! The difference here is I never said a thing about it. Quit while your ahead. Your points make no valid sense. Your just arguing to argue. You say one thing, I say another. I see all the proof of Camber and tire and this and that and bla.... I Will take the articled, proven facts over what someone who doesn't know anything but driving straight. Sorry.

Enjoy the rest of your night.

My car is all setup for road-race/autox. Yours is set up for scrapping, scrapping, gayness, and scrapping. But I only know about straight line
Show up at a REAL DSM meet sporting that and you'll be getting flamed and told to go park with the Honduh's or VW's.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

My car is all setup for road-race/autox. Yours is set up for scrapping, scrapping, gayness, and scrapping. But I only know about straight line
Show up at a REAL DSM meet sporting that and you'll be getting flamed and told to go park with the Honduh's or VW's.

Goodluck with that.

Woosah - YouTube

 

[jtmcinder]

First off, someone else brought up NASCAR. Second off, YES they do touch that stuff during races. ALL THE TIME! Pay attention if you've ever watched a race, teams are adjusting toe, camber, caster as well as spring/ride height and shock stiffness. ALL THE TIME! Every race, they show a team or two adjusting.

Are you confusing wedge adjustments for all this other stuff? If not, pray tell how they adjust all of these things during a 20-second stop.

 

[jtmcinder]

Wedge (crossweight), track bar, tire pressure, and spring rubbers are the only common adjustments they do, since they can do them quickly (even installing a spring rubber takes longer than they really want to spend so they don't do it much, so they start with one and remove it if necessary). On road courses they have more time so they can do more, but track position is even more important on a road course since passing is so tough (why I think roadracing is boring -- can't go lap after lap side by side).

You know too much to be in this thread. Please leave now.

edit: and please take me with you...

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Are you confusing wedge adjustments for all this other stuff? If not, pray tell how they adjust all of these things during a 20-second stop.

I stopped watching nascar a long time ago, my parents and brothers still do and have since Dodge came back years ago. But I have watched a lot where they are adjusting camber and especially on the road courses talking specifically about camber adjustments, toe adjustments, track arm and wedge adjustments. I even remember when they went heavily into it to explain what the crews were doing, breaking out the cutaway car to explain it to the viewers.

 

[jtmcinder]

So, the story has switched from "all the time" to the two or three times a year (at most) when they turn right as well as left. Nice walk-back.

But I still advise you to cool it on the pseudo-handling suggestions. Keep this thread on the low road of slammed cars with stretched tires, as it should be.

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

So, the story has switched from "all the time" to the two or three times a year (at most) when they turn right as well as left. Nice walk-back.

But I still advise you to cool it on the pseudo-handling suggestions. Keep this thread on the low road of slammed cars with stretched tires, as it should be.

 

[2slow4now]

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Top pic Looks good. I would go with wider tires instead of stretched. It just says "mean SOB". Like looking at the rear of a corvette and seeing some wide 325's and yes it will spin them more than your family cars 195's.

Bottom pic

I don't get it. Looks like the lower control arms were never installed or broke. Just take the wheels off at the car show, set the car on the frame, and lean the wheels up against the hub. Don't even bolt them on.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Yeah, my car is one in the same. Wider tires wont fit. 225 is the largest I can go. I could possibly go 45's right now without any rubbing but no more than that. Any wider I'll have to really throw some negative camber. Plus the tires I had, so it was cheap. Soo much complaint about hardly stretched 225's on 9", When people are doing 225's on 10.5's, and 205's on 9.5's and others like that. And I'm right there with them with my 225's. I honestly hate tires that are just square. Wall is straight up and down. It looks sooooooo disgusting.

Anyway here's the pic after the tire was installed. They were done soo fast and easy, no need for flamage or high pressure blasts into the tires like some. They slipped right on the wheel without the use of the machine and the air compressor aired them up and seated them to the bead.

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As for the height. When I get my new spring perch's to let me get that perfect range of drop. I'll lift the car up and level each fender with the top of the tire. So pretty much no base tire tuck. Since the front fenders are higher up on the body than the rears, I'm hoping that should get me a clean raked look and still be flush with plenty of tire travel and more than enough suspension travel for every day use. And even less camber...

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[rlacasse1]

See, now in that last picture the camber doesn't look quite that bad.

I think it looks pretty good. Although, I'm not a huge fan of wheels sticking out past the fenders. I still think it looks pretty good.

Good job on the looks OP. Can't agree 100% on the handling, but you definitely nailed the looks.

 

[1998dsm]

Can I ask who in new Mexico is building your motor(if someone is building it here)? As I finally pulled my motor last weekend, I would like to drop it off to someone this weekend. Btw +1 on the wheels looks very good.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Damn in that last pic the camber looks less, than my,rears,.

 

[jrs187]

If it is still sitting on the blocks that's pry why it looks so good. The full weight isn't on the wheels. May still have issues with camber. But good luck looks good. I have the mustang gt 17's on my 1g. But that's just to role it around.

 

[blownturbotsi]

There are a lot of closed minds out there. Stance looks fine, but I don't like the wheels much. Keep fighting the good fight, sir.

 

[LandoAWD]

Soo much complaint about hardly stretched 225's on 9", When people are doing 225's on 10.5's, and 205's on 9.5's and others like that. And I'm right there with them with my 225's. ]

You have to remember that the vast majority, myself included, aren't arguing performance or handling at that point either. THAT is the crux of the ongoing, circular argument.

You posted in appearance, this is a modification to enhance appearance, let's just keep it going that direction...