18x9 +12 Saleen Wheels!

[bmoha7321]

I... I... I can't read anymore of this nonsense. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have poked my nose into an appearance post. I'm going to delete my subscription to this post.

 

[jtmcinder]

I... I... I can't read anymore of this nonsense. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have poked my nose into an appearance post. I'm going to delete my subscription to this post.

Delete all you want, but brain cells don't regenerate. Ask me how I know.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Chris -

Please make him stop saying stuff like his slammed car has sufficient front travel. Please.

- Jt

Delete all you want, but brain cells don't regenerate. Ask me how I know.

ALT+F4 Please!

Actually, I don't care. I found a better option. Now most of my problem is solved. Have a great night!

 

[Ludachris]

Jt, he knows there is even less front travel than it had stock, which was not very much to begin with - one of the toughest things to address on a 2g suspension when you're looking to increase handling performance. I think what he's saying is that there's plenty of suspension travel for his taste, not for ideal handling.

Just so that everyone else reading this comes away with correct info - lowering a 2g takes away even more of the precious little suspension travel found in the 2g front shock. So in terms of real world handling, lowering a 2g is bad because of this - it pretty much negates the positive aspects of having the car lowered. You end up hitting the bump stop a lot sooner than you would with the car at stock ride height, not a good a good thing obviously.

So if you're looking to "improve" the handling of a 2g, lowering it, without compensating for the decreased suspension travel and change in suspension geometry/roll center/etc, is not a good thing by itself. Simply adjusting camber after lowering it isn't enough to offset the bad stuff. You have to do quite a bit more to bring back the OEM suspension geometry and travel - and ask any 2g autocrosser or road racer how tough it can be to find solutions for this.

Anyone who wants to learn more about performance and optimal handling can head over to our Road Race forum though. Again, this is the Appearance forum, and much of the stuff talked about here has nothing to do with optimal performance. It's all about looks here. I just wanted to post this so that noobs don't get confused. Lowering a 2 doesn't equal better handling unless you do a lot more work and buy a lot of other parts to restore the OEM geometry.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Well I believe there is a difference between Suspension Travel and Tire Travel. There is hardly any tire travel. Unless your rolling around on some VERY SMALL wheels and VERY SMALL tires, you'll max out your tires on the inner fender/subframe. With it maxed out.... Well:

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Thats almost as high as the upper control arm will travel. The shock has plenty to go. But the 2g's Fender Sub Frame is like half an inch higher than the fender lip itself. So if you are going to lower more than, say 2". Beware of pot holes, speed bumps, anything that will slam that tire up there. The metal doesn't look very tire friendly. The Shock will not max out. I tried to get the arm up there as far as it will go with a jack, no spring, no sway bar, and right above where this picture was taken, was the end. Any further will dent the strut tower. This picture was taken, with the hub measured up where the tire hits the fender sub frame.

The rear however I have no clue, I think the rear shocks could bottom out. The fenders have lots of room for tire to travel.

I feel I have enough suspension travel because the tires will hit before the shocks will. And I don't plan on driving like an idiot over stuff. I've only hit one thing before and that was an accident. I don't feel the need to race over speed bumps or bad roads or pot holes.

 

[Dhan]

Despite the nonsense, this thread has good info from some of the wiser members.

Thanks for starting this thread OP.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

I know I'm going to get shit for this because somewhere in the 'DSM Rule Book' it states "One shall not slam or stance out a DSM, Wheels should be small, tires fat and suspension high enough to go rock crawling."

But I say NAYYYYYYYY! The 18x9.5 +22 Thread a few years back has been my inspiration since it came up. I 'accidentally' took it a little bit further. I got one hell of a deal on 4 Authentic Saleen 18x9 +12 (rear offset) Wheels that I could just not pass up. I didn't know they were +12 till I went to get them, I thought they were going to be the front +25's but nope. I took a chance, plus the re sale on Saleen's is pretty hefty.

Front fenders were rolled and pulled a little, rear fenders were rolled but not enough, I still need to roll them more. Currently in these pics the car's frame in the front fenders is resting on the tires. I don't know why because I've seen others roll around this low. And with my high angled driveway/street issue, I will be lifting it up about half an inch or inch in the front. The rears have plenty of room.

Camber is stock. Toe hasn't been adjusted yet (real culprit behind uneven tire wear) but don't give me shit for it, car doesn't run yet as the new 2.4 is being built right now, Just pulled the car out of the garage for some cleaning and figured I'd take some pictures because I think it looks insane!

Anyway, pictures!

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Rain has to interrupt cleaning. So I use the rain water to clean my car! TAKE THAT MOTHER NATURE!

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I hope you all enjoy. I know everyone else that has seen these pictures thinks its just awesome like I do, and pictures don't even do justice, but I know someone is gonna say something about my lightly stretched tires or my camber.

So in Advance for those comments:

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have a good day.

Just a question alittle off topic but what are you using to hold your hood open like that?

 

[Ludachris]

Well I believe there is a difference between Suspension Travel and Tire Travel. There is hardly any tire travel. Unless your rolling around on some VERY SMALL wheels and VERY SMALL tires, you'll max out your tires on the inner fender/subframe. With it maxed out.... Well:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Thats almost as high as the upper control arm will travel. The shock has plenty to go. But the 2g's Fender Sub Frame is like half an inch higher than the fender lip itself. So if you are going to lower more than, say 2". Beware of pot holes, speed bumps, anything that will slam that tire up there. The metal doesn't look very tire friendly. The Shock will not max out. I tried to get the arm up there as far as it will go with a jack, no spring, no sway bar, and right above where this picture was taken, was the end. Any further will dent the strut tower. This picture was taken, with the hub measured up where the tire hits the fender sub frame.

The rear however I have no clue, I think the rear shocks could bottom out. The fenders have lots of room for tire to travel.

I feel I have enough suspension travel because the tires will hit before the shocks will. And I don't plan on driving like an idiot over stuff. I've only hit one thing before and that was an accident. I don't feel the need to race over speed bumps or bad roads or pot holes.

What people might not think about it is, that photo shows the shock at full length with the suspension hanging, it looks like there's plenty of travel. When the wheel is sitting on the ground and the suspension is at rest, the shock will be somewhat compressed - the lower the car is, the more it will be compressed, effectively reducing the amount of travel it will have. Is the shock designed for that shorter travel range and a stiffer spring? The only one I know of that is, and only to an extent, is Koni. All the rest are designed for stock height and spring rates. So now you have less shock travel and a shock that isn't designed for the application you're using it in.

It's kind of scary that your tire will hit the fender before the bumpstop. That seems a bit dangerous on the street.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Well I don't have the yellow bump stops installed. But that lil safety ring that holds the washer up at the very top, thats 2" from the stopping point. But I'm now not slammed like that. Under normal driving I should be fine. I had go pro footage of my car before on the previous taller springs and on freeway 'bumps' the suspension wouldn't move that much.

Also in that pic, like I mentioned I had the spring out, sway bar disconnected and used a jack to push it up all the way.

As for the hood, I had two bars sitting on one of the 3 bolts that bolt the strut down, holding the hood open. You can kinda see them in one or two of the photos.

 

[spyderdrifter]

Doesn't look bad. I'm not a fan of mustangs, regardless of what company turns/rebuilds them, but still not bad. Continue the good work

 

[dkalfop]

Sipder GST is correct about the camber and the wear, but it's your car and you can do anything you want to it! You have coil overs but no other suspension? How does the car ride? Car does look good, but you might want to make sure your not putting stress on other suspension components so nothing breaks and tire wear, which will cost you lots of money in the long run.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Tokico Illumina 5way Adjustable shocks aren't nothing. Stress on what components? Nothing has stress on it. Esp the tires. When the car rolls out. I will have the toe adjusted dead on. So wont have to worry about tire wear from bad toe. The car is only lowered about 2.5-2.7" from stock ride height. An Inch lower than what I was before when I was on H&R Springs.

Here is what the 1.7/1.4" H&R Springs looked like on 18x8 225/40/18.

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I always wanted the car about an inch lower. And now my car rides right an top of the tires. There is maybe. I'd say 1/4" Gap from the top of the tire to the lip of the front fender.

 

[Ludachris]

Sipder GST is correct about the camber and the wear, but it's your car and you can do anything you want to it! You have coil overs but no other suspension? How does the car ride? Car does look good, but you might want to make sure your not putting stress on other suspension components so nothing breaks and tire wear, which will cost you lots of money in the long run.

Lowering the car won't add stress to the system outside of premature wear of the shocks, as they weren't designed to be lowered. You might see more wear on the bushings due to the ride being more harsh but that is more of a product of higher spring rates, not lowering. The only other thing would be tire wear.

 

[jtmcinder]

What are the odds that he loosened all the suspension bolts, put the car down on the tires, and then retightened them all? Zero, right? So every suspension bushing on the entire car is now under a twisting preload. So the added wear and tear (literally) on the bushings is not just due to harshness.

 

[LandoAWD]

Why does this keep going back to performance? Should I move it?

 

[jtmcinder]

My current guess is that the thread-starter is actually Dennis Grant and this entire thread is designed to get me in trouble with Chris.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Only if its to a bad performance page....

 

[Coldsou]

I like the way it looks. Not a huge fan of the Hellaflush scene. But there are a few that I like. This is one of 'em.

Some build for form. Some for function. To each his own.

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I enjoy this picture the most out of all of 'em.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Even tho a small percentage of the DSM Community hates me for it, I wish I could keep the car like that because I love the hellaflush look. Anything more than HellaFlush is too much. Some others I know have gone beyond with like dub vip style wheels and IDK how but slammed further than I was in this picture. I guess smaller tires and cut the subframe in the fenders. IDK. I didn't like it.

Thanks a lot. I loved that picture too. Like I said in one of my comments, the car now has renewed my love for it. I've owned and built 8 and worked on tons more and I have been getting bored and wanting to finally upgrade to an Evo. But now I look at the car and I get filled with excitement to drive it again. Esp with the new engine/turbo build.

 

[Ludachris]

I'll likely be lowering the Talon a little more just so it looks good, at least in the rear, the front sits where I want it already. I don't care about the handling as much on the Talon like I do on my Eclipse track car. I won't be going as low as you did - won't be slamming it, but will be keeping about a 1" or 1.5" gap between the top of the tire shoulder to fender. I want the car to sit right and getting the wheel gap right is the main way to address it, along with tire/wheel sizing.

It bothers me that DSMs can't be lowered a lot without being detrimental to handling - especially when you see a stock BMW that sits perfect from the factory in terms of wheel gap. Oh well.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Looking at all my Control arms, Well the lower arms, like the trailing arms and control arms, they don't have any high angle on them at all. The Trailing arms are still angled down and the control arms have a little bit of angle up. Going to lift the rear a little more. Because I got the spring perch's and it didn't raise it as much as I was expecting.

I agree completely. Rear has tons of fender for tire travel, front has hardly any, if any. Shocks have very limited travel in lowered form. Control arms at a nice sexy drop are angled some.

Ehh. This isn't my track car, I just want it to feel good. Car has full interior, AC and Power Steering and will always have that. As well as an Audio System. Just want myself a clean sexy car that has power.

Anyway for those who believe my very slight camber even now sitting higher up is " EXTREME!".... You don't know what Extreme is!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H11E0zwI7QA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[urcarisslower]

I wasnt sure at first but after seeing this i like it looks great man

 

[D00kie]

Looks good bro!!!! I had to lift mine back up, tires were getting too expensive. Stanced 2g's FTW!!!!!

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Yeah I wish I could be slammed but nope. They do have the NeoGen's. They were made for lowered cars with a little bit of camber.

TY

 

[AshyBone]

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I FOUND IT!!!!!!!! Look at my conquest in the background... Damn My car has been at yalls place since 07/24???
Any way I see what you mean by all the bull shit everybody is giving you. There are alot of people that like it though.

I saw this car in person, Infact it was lower when I saw it. As stated before, pictures do no justice. As for the video... Seriously What the ####!!!!!!

I'll see you soon man.