2G Won't start after Fuel pressure regulator Diaphragm replaced

[Sam's GSX]

Over 2 months ago, I was sitting in the car (1997 Eclipse GSX) idling and it randomly died. I saw a fuel leak at the AFPR and thought the hose had given out, but when I took apart the regulator, the diaphragm had torn. I have replaced the diaphragm but the car still won't start. It acts like it wants to start for a moment, then just continues cranking.

I went to boot up my old tuning laptop but it may be retired, I couldn't get it on and I haven't used DSMlink in a few years. I downloaded it on this work laptop and took a few cranking logs (attached) if you would like me to adjust or add and graphs, let me know, and I will take new logs.

Let me know if you have any advise or help, It would be greatly appreciated. I'm slightly stumped on this one for the time being.

(let me know if the logs didn't post correctly)

Thank you.

 

[babyviper]

Should be dowel pins up and timing marks facing each other. I see you have the dowel pins up but I don't see timing marks facing each other.

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[DSMPT]

Photos

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Please refer the link below.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/help-with-cam-timing-marks.544793/

Set the timing mark on the crank plate first, and then take a pic of cam gear position without the A/C line from center and straight, so we can see if you have set the timing correctly or not.

 

[Sam's GSX]

Okay thank you, the timing mark at the crank is set in those pictures.
I will try to get a better picture tomorrow.

I noticed that it doesn't look like it has timing marks, I felt like it had them when I assembled it, but apparently not.
(Here is a Picture of where the marks should be)

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[DSMPT]

I noticed that it doesn't look like it has timing marks,

The EVO 4-9 4g63 dedicated gears don't have the horizontal DSM/Early EVOs 4g63 timing marks. And the EVO 4+ timing mark is 1 tooth off from the dowel pin hole.

Should mark your cam gears like the blue. It would make it easier when setting/checking the timing.

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[Sam's GSX]

Okay that makes sense, I will mark them once I have it timed properly.

Does anyone know if the cam gear jumping one tooth would bend the valves? I have extremely low compression, basically zero, but I'm not sure if that's from the timing being off, or bent valves and timing.

I don't hear any noticeable metal sounds when cranking.

 

[DSMPT]

Does anyone know if the cam gear jumping one tooth would bend the valves?

Usually wouldn't, unless you had tight piston/valve clearance. But it depends on many factors, like the original piston/valve clearance, valve spring condition, cam profile, piston top's shape, the engine speed and the actual valve timing when it jumped etc etc. So we can't be 100% sure until you physically/visually check it.

 

[Sam's GSX]

Thank you DSMPT, you have helped me many times in the past, and I trust your judgment extremely.

If you were in this situation, would you fix the timing, and attempt to run it? Or would you go further into a deep dive, and check the valves/pull the head?

(I believe it jumped timing while cranking, or when it died when the AFPR went out.
The top of the pistons have small indents, they are weisco pistons. The springs are fairly new I believe, I think BC springs, but it's been a while)

 

[DSMPT]

If you were in this situation, would you fix the timing, and attempt to run it? Or would you go further into a deep dive, and check the valves/pull the head?

If I were you, I would make sure and set the timing properly first or remove the cams. And would do a leakdown test. At least compression test with the correct timing and compare with the numbers from before if possible. (And/or just remove the valve cover and visually check the valves. If you have badly bent valves, you may see them at lower position even they are supposed to be fully closed)
You said you have almost no compression, but even if the timing was a little bit off, you should have seem some compression. Hope you have no vent valves.

 

[Sam's GSX]

Sounds like a plan.
I have ordered a new timing tension tool (all my tools were stolen a year ago)

I don't have any experience with leakdown test yet, but I will look into it and see if it's something I can afford/do.

I also would like to check the compression on my new vehicle to make sure the compression tester is working properly, it is cheap from Amazon.

I did remove the valve cover a few weeks ago, but I really didn't know what I was looking for, everything looked fine at the time, I should probably remove it again and check for valves being lower than normal.

Thank you very much.

 

[chrysler kid]

a leak down test will manually insert air pressure into the cylinder using an air compressor, using a regulator on the air, it would apply constant air pressure like a compression test however with that constant pressure you can tell how much air is escaping. if you do the test with the valve cover off you can feel if air is escaping into the cylinder head from a bent valve

you can use a borescope which is a tiny camera in the cylinder to try to see if the head or valves are damaged. might have to be a fancy one that twist and bends with a controller

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Borescope it. If you take the cams out, look at the height of ALL of the tops of the valves stems. Are they all equal or are some taller and some shorter than others? Both pretty easy ways to look for bent valves.

 

[Sam's GSX]

Okay perfect!! That sounds like a plan.

I'll start with removing the cams and looking at the height of the valve stems.

I will do further testing/buying tools if need be.

Thank you

 

[93xsg]

I had something similar like that happen recently. Compression was 155, 0, 155, 0. My situation was timing eccentric pulley bolt came loose. Belt was obviously loose though in my case.

Car was driving fine and one day just ran funny, so I parked it. 2 years later I started diagnosing it and it wouldnt start, my compression numbers were on a cold motor.

You should definetely be getting a lot more compression than that!

K.I.S.S, keep it simple stupid. I always have to tell myself working on cars.

If you can get the timing lined up with motor in the car, do that and try again with compression test.

Otherwise, I mean, you might as well pop the head off, and something will stick out.


My valves definetely bent, and I could tell something sounded off while cranking. (Lack of compression). I could tell the valves were bent, by the shiny metal on the pistons where all the intake valves hit. And a few of the valves not sitting flush like the rest of them, in the bottom of the head.

 

[Sam's GSX]

Quick update.
Sorry for the huge delay, had a lot of things to juggle.

I removed the cams and took pictures of all of the valve stems to show if any had different heights (bent)
From what I can see, all were the same height, but feel free to look over the pictures as well.

I'm just putting everything back together now, I'm going to set the timing and tension soon.
I'm hoping it just jumped a tooth.

Let me know if I should do anything else.

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[Sam's GSX]

Good afternoon.
Winter has passed and I have finally been able to do the work on it that I wanted to.
unfortunately the car is still not starting, I have attached the video of it cranking, as well as the DSMLINK log.

Here is all that I have done to it.
New water pump, new timing parts *(belt, both pulleys, tensioner). I checked the height of the back of the valves, as show in the last post, checking for bent valves. I thought it was low on gas, so I put 5 gallons in. (unrelated, but I redid the oil return to try and fix a leak)
All new fluids.

I'm not completely sure where to go from here? I may need to contact someone with more experience than me, but that's getting hard to find locally on these cars.

I can do a cold compression test, but that's about it.

I do not have the set up to pull the head, it took me a year just to do all these things.
I no longer have access to a shop and all the tools that I used to pull the engine and build it.

please let me know if there is anything that I should try.

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[steve]

The settings don't match up very well with your profile. The injector pulse width while cranking is huge 14ms with what the ECU thinks are 950cc injectors (which might be 1450cc in reality). To me that's a lot of fuel. You also have a lot of deadtime between your global and the changes you made to InjBatteryAdj.

I assume this is V3 light but it could be older. If it's V3 or some sort make sure the firmware on the ECU has been updated. There have been some bugs. If it's V2 consider upgrading.

 

[Sam's GSX]

Thank you so much!! I believe its standard V3, but i will confirm. It's been a while.

I will look into all of those settings tomorrow, link thinks it's 950cc? That's interesting. Yes they are 1450cc.

I did tune the injectors myself when I first installed them, and i can't remember too much about that process. Im definitely fine with starting from scratch in that area.

Is it possible that some settings reset to default or a different setting? Almost randomly? I know it shouldn't have, but the 950cc now has me curious.

And i think I updated the firmware a few years back, but i will do it again.
That is all done through link right? You download the firmware from the website?

 

[steve]

Thank you so much!! I believe its standard V3, but i will confirm. It's been a while.

And i think I updated the firmware a few years back, but i will do it again.
That is all done through link right? You download the firmware from the website?

It doesn't look like what I'm used to seeing from a 2g Full v3 LOG so I'd double check.

ECMTuning, Inc.

Firmware upgrade

v3firmwarehowto [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

Your current Global fuel adjustment is -52.7% and the calculator is saying that for 941cc injectors @ 43.5psi with fuel that's stoichiometric at 14.7:1. If you running something other than gas that might explain some of it.

I also don't usually see MAF Comp adjustments like yours, Since you have cams it's not going to idle at .25gm/rev but I'd check your MAF (don't know what you have, ECMLink says stock?) because your log is showing almost three times that which might explain the really high InjOn time (Injector Pulse Width).

 

[99dsmer4g63]

Did you ever perform a leak down test? Much more informative than a compression test.

-Daniel

 

[Sam's GSX]

It doesn't look like what I'm used to seeing from a 2g Full v3 LOG so I'd double check.

ECMTuning, Inc.

v3firmwarehowto [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

Your current Global fuel adjustment is -52.7% and the calculator is saying that for 941cc injectors @ 43.5psi with fuel that's stoichiometric at 14.7:1. If you running something other than gas that might explain some of it.

I also don't usually see MAF Comp adjustments like yours, Since you have cams it's not going to idle at .25gm/rev but I'd check your MAF (don't know what you have, ECMLink says stock?) because your log is showing almost three times that which might explain the really high InjOn time (Injector Pulse Width).

Yes the MAF is stock.
Thank you for the link for the firmware, I appreciate that and all your help.

That is odd for the fuel adjust, it would make sense to be much more negative for 1450cc.

I am running standard 93, with water meth injection under boost.
I did notice something odd yesterday, might not be anything, but my water meth is wired to my idle switch wire, so when the meth shoots, it switches to a secondary map. But when i was cranking, the idle sw would change if i pressed the gas pedal, buf i can't remember if that's correct, I feel like it shouldn't change anymore now that's it's connected to the meth system.

And for my MAFComp, it's hitting 3 times .25gm? So to much air coming in? I'll look at adjusting that and see if there are any changes.

Did you ever perform a leak down test? Much more informative than a compression test.

-Daniel

That's a great idea, let me look into what I would need to pick up to perform this.
From what i understand, it pumps air into the cylinder to check how much pressure it can hold? And how quickly it drops that pressure?

 

[Sam's GSX]

It doesn't look like what I'm used to seeing from a 2g Full v3 LOG so I'd double check.

ECMTuning, Inc.

v3firmwarehowto [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

Your current Global fuel adjustment is -52.7% and the calculator is saying that for 941cc injectors @ 43.5psi with fuel that's stoichiometric at 14.7:1. If you running something other than gas that might explain some of it.

I also don't usually see MAF Comp adjustments like yours, Since you have cams it's not going to idle at .25gm/rev but I'd check your MAF (don't know what you have, ECMLink says stock?) because your log is showing almost three times that which might explain the really high InjOn time (Injector Pulse Width).

Here is the version, so i do believe it is V3 full, but correct me if i am wrong.

Im working on the firmware now

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[steve]

What were the compression numbers after your timing parts?

It's not clear you're actually getting 3x the air, just that the ECU thinks so.

3.19.139 (12/23/2009) just slightly out of date.

 

[Sam's GSX]

What were the compression numbers after your timing parts?

It's not clear you're actually getting 3x the air, just that the ECU thinks so.

3.19.139 (12/23/2009) just slightly out of date.

Hahahaha, yeah apparently a bit out of date.

Ill do a leakdown test (just picked it up) and a compression test today.

I have not done a compression test with the new timing parts yet

 

[Sam's GSX]

What were the compression numbers after your timing parts?

It's not clear you're actually getting 3x the air, just that the ECU thinks so.

3.19.139 (12/23/2009) just slightly out of date.

Okay, i have just completed the leak down test and compression test.

First, let's go over the leak down.
I unfortunately don't know if the leak down text has much credibility, it's possible that I messed up the test, but ive been racking my brain and can't think of anything.

The first cylinder I tested (#1) tested very well, not a huge amount of loss at all, maybe 15% (pictures attached)
But the next 3 all tested terrible, with a relatively loud leaking noise from the engine.
I went back and tested cylinder 1 again, and this time it also tested terribly, the same as the other 3.
(I manually cranked the engine with a rod through the spark plug hole, to make sure each was tdc)


Now for the compression test, I understand the engine is cold, and it is supposed to be warm for both of these tests, but this was the concerning test, #1 105psi, #2 125psi #3 25psi and #150 psi.

Cylinder 3 tested extremely bad, even making a hissing noise with each rotation (in the video)

Im not exactly sure what this means, possibly a blown out piston ring, bent valve or something, i guess blown headgasket is an option, but with 625+ custom aged studs, it always felt less likely to be that, but i guess it's possible.
No leaks on the car, and no fluids in the cylinder.

If this is a major engine failure, that is completely fine, im tired of not knowing the issue, at least with this, i can start to actually fix it

Here are the pictures and video
(The order of testing leak down was 1,4,3,2,1)

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[99dsmer4g63]

When the engine is at TDC you test cylinder 1 & 4. Rotate the engine 180 degrees so #2 and #3 are at TDC and test.
Anything below 15 I wouldn’t worry about. I usually do each cylinder 3 times before seeing the average as it changes slightly depending on how precisely you set the gauge each time.

The big thing here is cylinder #3. Leak down test it again. Pull a vacuum hose and see if the air is going past the intake valve. If not go to the back of the car and listen to the exhaust and see if it’s coming from there.

On a cold engine you will most likely lose some through the rings which you can determine by pulling the dipstick tube or oil cap.

The leak down test is to tell you where the air is escaping and where the problem lies. Either intake valves, exhaust valves or the piston rings.

-Daniel