Why does no one use the 18G ?

[dsm-onster]

If you read the site you'll find out that they don't have an actual 18g compressor map and that the map you tried to link to was a combination of the big 16g and 20g maps with some intelligent analysis thrown in. Far from definitive. I searched my ass off before buying the tdo5 18g from FP for a compressor map and to no avail.

I stand corrected . But does not a tdo5 18G flow more than a EVO3 16G? I thought it was around 50 cfm more and that the tdo5 20G flowed around 45 cfm more than that.

 

[BatmanGSX]

But does not a tdo5 18G flow more than a EVO3 16G?

NO. As I already stated. Evo3 16G = 42lb min, 18 = 40lb min and 20g = 44lb min. WHICH IS CONSISTANT WITH HOW MUCH POWER PEOPLE MAKE WITH THEM.

And stop going by the rated CFM of a wheel, talk about a meaningless and arbitrary stat...

 

[sweet97]

Sorry I have not read this whole thread but where can I find definitive info that the EVO3 flows 42lbs/min.? Thanks, mark
PS: From the beginning I had always thought it flowed 38lbs./min. when I bought mine from Buschgur racing. Come to think of it I'll ask David.

 

[GPTourer]

NO. As I already stated. Evo3 16G = 42lb min, 18 = 40lb min and 20g = 44lb min.

When you say 20G = 44 lb/min, do you mean a 5 or 6H?

 

[BatmanGSX]

Um... both? The turbine wheel doesn't directly affect the flow rating of the compressor wheel, however it does effect the overall exhaust flow of the engine, which does affect power, not to mention that it effects spool characteristics.

 

[GPTourer]

I thought the compressor cover was different too and that it would have an affect on output.

The turbine wheel doesn't directly affect the flow rating of the compressor wheel, however it does effect the overall exhaust flow of the engine, which does affect power, not to mention that it effects spool characteristics.

How could it affect power and not the flow rating?

 

[BatmanGSX]

I thought the compressor cover was different too and that it would have an affect on output.

No, the difference between a TD05H 20G and a TD06 20G is the turbine wheel, one has a TD05H turbine wheel and one has a TD06 turbine wheel...

How could it affect power and not the flow rating?

Dude. Do you have any clue what you are talking about? THE FLOW RATING OF THE COMPRESSOR WHEEL IS FIXED FFS. Doesn't mean you'll actually be able to get it there but it is a fixed value/stat. 99% of people are not flowing the max rating of their compressor wheel. Especially morons who buy 70lb/min Holeset turbos in 400hp turbine housings with 300hp internal gates for their stock 7-bolts. Just because your turbo is rated at 44lb/min doesn't mean you'll be making 440hp. Most people with 20Gs are probably making hp between 300-350 (or less) which means it's flowing about 30-35lb/min. Does that mean the flow rating of the compressor wheel magically changes? No it doesn't.

Now I remember why I hate DSMtuners. Wait, I never forgot.

 

[GPTourer]

No, the difference between a TD05H 20G and a TD06 20G is the turbine wheel, one has a TD05H turbine wheel and one has a TD06 turbine wheel...

I was looking at them on FP's site and the 20G's have a TD06 cover, which is different from the TD05H cover I have on my EvoIII. IT is an upgrade I am considering.

Dude. Do you have any clue what you are talking about? THE FLOW RATING OF THE COMPRESSOR WHEEL IS FIXED FFS. ... Now I remember why I hate DSMtuners. Wait, I never forgot.

Dude, I asked a question because I don't know what I am talking about. I thought the cover could affect the flow rating, of the turbo. Okay so the wheel has a set rating, but from looking at all the T3/T4 hybrids out there and the S, E and B covers that make the difference, I figured the overall turbo's output could differ depending on its construction. Same thing with the 05 and 06 covers. If you hate answering questions then don't bother posting. Don't be such an ass.

 

[BatmanGSX]

The covers will ultimately effect how the wheel performs (although in some cases it's found to be minimal). But it still doesn't effect the rating of the wheel. A 20G wheel is rated at 44lb/min of airflow. It has been, and always will be.

Most 20G turbos have the TD06 compressor cover. I can't think of a single company selling the 20G with a TD05 compressor cover (and still calling it a "20G"). As for upgrading your E316G to a TD06 compressor cover, I'm not sure it's worth it honestly. I don't think it would be negative but at the same time I wouldn't waste my time with it.

I came back to 'Tuners to see what real world data was like for regular people using the E316G, just for the sake of my own curiousity. I wouldn't have posted except I see so many people spreading rumors and misinformation. It's crazy what it's like here, what people hold to be true is totally different that reality. For instance there is one vendor on here who's website claims the T04E 54 and 57 trims outflow a T04E 50-trim... It's just weird how reality is so easily distorted and spread as fact when there are so many people.

P.S. I am nice.

 

[GPTourer]

I wasn't planning on putting a TD06 cover on my EIII, I meant upgrading to the whole TD06H-20G turbo. I do realize a wheel has a speific rating, and that's that, but I am looking at the turbo as a whole. It would be kind of like saying a piston can handle 1000hp, but without knowng the specs of the whole engine, its kind of pointless.

I do realize when you look at the max flow rating of a wheel, chances are no one will ever reach that level of output, but if you have a more effecient cover, a good CHRA, and the right A/R on your turbine housing for your dsiplacement and planned RPM range, it makes it a lot easier for people to reach that goal.

I was under the impression that the BR20G, Sleeper 16G, and Bastard 20G were stock appearing turbos with 20G compressor wheels stuffed into TD05H housings.

I also thought we were talking about how much airflow people were getting from the actual turbos on the street and not theoretical laboratory results of the wheels from the factory.

 

[daren_p]

I wasn't planning on putting a TD06 cover on my EIII, I meant upgrading to the whole TD06H-20G turbo. I do realize a wheel has a speific rating, and that's that, but I am looking at the turbo as a whole. It would be kind of like saying a piston can handle 1000hp, but without knowng the specs of the whole engine, its kind of pointless.

I do realize when you look at the max flow rating of a wheel, chances are no one will ever reach that level of output, but if you have a more effecient cover, a good CHRA, and the right A/R on your turbine housing for your dsiplacement and planned RPM range, it makes it a lot easier for people to reach that goal.

I was under the impression that the BR20G, Sleeper 16G, and Bastard 20G were stock appearing turbos with 20G compressor wheels stuffed into TD05H housings.

I also thought we were talking about how much airflow people were getting from the actual turbos on the street and not theoretical laboratory results of the wheels from the factory.

Yes the sleeper 16g, etc. are a 20g comp wheel stuffed in a td05 comp housing. As for "real world" airflow @ 18 psi I see 33 lb/min from my evoIII. I'm still quite abit low from the stated 42 lb/min, but there are alot of other factors that will effect your actual lb/min. ic, cams, head, smim, boost, intake temp. etc. I plan on adding cams and uping the boost to ~20 psi next spring and then possibly adding a smim down the road so I will be close to seeing that magical 42 lb/min I also know someone with a 1g that has basically the same mods as me except the addition of cams and extruded & honed intake mani and he sees ~38 lb/min at slightly less boost then me.

So since were talking about the evoIII & 18g as far as flow goes, what are some of you guys that are running the 18g logging? (what boost & mods)

Also earlier in this post some of you were talking about compressor covers while other were talking about different turbine wheels .

 

[doug]

Mods in profile, 34 lbs/min at 20PSI with a couple of decent-size boost leaks (will be fixed soon, I hope).

 

[BatmanGSX]

The BR20G has a TD06 compressor housing and clipped TD05H turbine wheel.

 

[Sbeing1]

i have a tdo5h 18g and it works great, pulls super hard. never had any problems

 

[dsm-onster]

NO. As I already stated. Evo3 16G = 42lb min, 18 = 40lb min and 20g = 44lb min. WHICH IS CONSISTANT WITH HOW MUCH POWER PEOPLE MAKE WITH THEM.

And stop going by the rated CFM of a wheel, talk about a meaningless and arbitrary stat...

I do not believe that email which quoted the EVO 16G as flowing 42 and the 18g 40. I was quoted over the phone by the same Forced Performance the opposite. So i go the 18g. CFM is at STP. If you run either turbo in the same environment then the T and P are the same for bothe consequently the CFM number between the two is the same percentage different. The arbitrary and meaningless fact is why you hate DSMTuners.

 

[Ludachris]

The covers will ultimately effect how the wheel performs (although in some cases it's found to be minimal). But it still doesn't effect the rating of the wheel. A 20G wheel is rated at 44lb/min of airflow. It has been, and always will be.

Most 20G turbos have the TD06 compressor cover. I can't think of a single company selling the 20G with a TD05 compressor cover (and still calling it a "20G"). As for upgrading your E316G to a TD06 compressor cover, I'm not sure it's worth it honestly. I don't think it would be negative but at the same time I wouldn't waste my time with it.

I came back to 'Tuners to see what real world data was like for regular people using the E316G, just for the sake of my own curiousity. I wouldn't have posted except I see so many people spreading rumors and misinformation. It's crazy what it's like here, what people hold to be true is totally different that reality. For instance there is one vendor on here who's website claims the T04E 54 and 57 trims outflow a T04E 50-trim... It's just weird how reality is so easily distorted and spread as fact when there are so many people.

P.S. I am nice.

Holy crap - it's Batman! Back and nice as ever. As much as you might rub people the wrong way, you still have good data to share (when you're not ripping on people). Same old Batman. I'm surprised you are actually answering questions though...