Which Turbo Should I Get [merged] What Turbo

[Ludachris]

Which turbo will be sufficient for consistent 11 second times? I've recently decided on a big 16g, but will that be big enough to run 11s with supporting mods and decent tuning? Remember, this is for a budget street car, so any one purchase over $1k is tough. A big 16g will run about $700-900, which is about $300-400 less than the larger alternatives.

Of course, I'll need lots of practice to run these times, but, I just want to make sure that it's possible before the money is spent.

 

[Oneslowgs-t]

im looking for a future turbo, i want a external dump setup.
i will want to hit around 400-450 whp.
and would like to only spend $500 on the turbo.

also what are you opinions on turbos from cx racing?

 

[Oneslowgs-t]

ill revise the ?. is there any turbos out there for around $500 that can handle 450 hp?

 

[Artago]

Used Holset.

Stay away from CX

 

[JusMX141]

ill revise the ?. is there any turbos out there for around $500 that can handle 450 hp?

Not new.

If you want that much power from a new turbo you'd better raise the bar to about double your original budget.

 

[91boostfedGSX]

Used Holset.

Stay away from CX

Hit the nail on the head

 

[We're on Boost]

.... I'm going to try out their hta dsm73 ....

mrbill, Just thought I should mention if you are 100% set on ball bearings, the HTA 73 (Green for DSM) is not ball bearing. Regardless, I think this should be a great way to go unless you want to spend a lot more money and do-or-buy a lot more custom fab work. If I had it to do over again I would have gone this way. I unexpectedly ran out of money while I was waiting for my T3 manifold to be built (6 weeks) and my project has been pretty static ever since. For the money I spent on just the T3 manifold and O2 housing, I could have bought a DSM HTA Green and bolted it up to the stock-fit components I already had - Done.
With the internal wastegate and the reasonable size compressor housing (not huge), the Green will fit in leaving room for fans, not run into your water pipe, and you save hundreds of bucks not having to buy an external wastegate.

Hey if you get one, it would be cool if you could post a picture of it, because the pic they have on the FP website doesn't show the anti-surge port compressor cover!

 

[Sik95TSI]

I think I'm going with the FP Green. What do you guys think about the mitsu sycolne/typhoon 20g that FP sells that's internal waste gate too.

 

[ezspooling]

Hey guys so I just picked up a stock 98 gsx. 5 speed. Full weight. Blah blah blah anyway I will be building it for auto cross. Will have awfully built motor and drivetrain and suspension set up the whole 9 yards. Now I'm only looking for about 400whp and if I can more torque. Anyway I'm debating what turbo to get. I was thinking about the ported and clipped 16g from STM or an fp green. Any ideas?

 

[We're on Boost]

Now I'm only looking for about 400whp and if I can more torque. I was thinking about the ported and clipped 16g from STM or an fp green. Any ideas?

Would you want that 400whp on race gas, pump gas, or e85?

I'm thinking, once you get into 2nd gear on an autox course, you'll probably never go back to first gear. You'll be pulling out of the lower speed corners in 2nd gear at some pretty low revs? Is that how it goes? Trying to get a handle on how low your powerband needs to go, so you don't waste time laying there like a dead fish waiting for your revs to come up.

 

[mrbill86]

mrbill, Just thought I should mention if you are 100% set on ball bearings, the HTA 73 (Green for DSM) is not ball bearing.

It's not quite the fp green. I spoke to someone at fp and they said this turbo is a little different and that it is ball bearing, not journal bearing. It's similar but not quite. They said full spool is about 3600-4000 rpm and can handle up to 540hp. But I will definitely take pics and send it to you guys and also get results for you as well. I'm going to do just pump gas with this car, not e85.

 

[We're on Boost]

It's not quite the fp green. I spoke to someone at fp and they said this turbo is a little different and that it is ball bearing, not journal bearing. It's similar but not quite. They said full spool is about 3600-4000 rpm and can handle up to 540hp. But I will definitely take pics and send it to you guys and also get results for you as well. I'm going to do just pump gas with this car, not e85.

That sounds very interesting. Will definitely want to see what it is, I don't think FP shows it on their web site. Is it external wastegate only? Or did you have a choice between external or internal?

 

[ezspooling]

Would you want that 400whp on race gas, pump gas, or e85?

I'm thinking, once you get into 2nd gear on an autox course, you'll probably never go back to first gear. You'll be pulling out of the lower speed corners in 2nd gear at some pretty low revs? Is that how it goes? Trying to get a handle on how low your powerband needs to go, so you don't waste time laying there like a dead fish waiting for your revs to come up.

I was planning on running pump gas. I would imagine I would stay in 2nd for my lower speed, probably be in first very rarely. So my guess would be 2nd and 3rd for my main gears. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

I think I'm going with the FP Green. What do you guys think about the mitsu sycolne/typhoon 20g that FP sells that's internal waste gate too.

That turbo is a bit of a pain in the ass. I did it on Kait's 2g. You have to clock the housings, come up with a WG actuator solution, and swap on a 7cm housing, and then you're still left with a 48lb compressor that can't get over ~44 due to hotside restrictions. The 20g really needs to be done with a 6H turbine or similar, or at least the old school big ass clip, otherwise you might as well stick with an EVO 16g IMO. I have been using that 10cm turbine housing to run other TD05H turbos on my T3 manifold though, so it wasn't a complete waste.

 

[We're on Boost]

I was planning on running pump gas. I would imagine I would stay in 2nd for my lower speed, probably be in first very rarely. So my guess would be 2nd and 3rd for my main gears. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Well I'm not sure what to recommend really. I would say the Green for great all-around performance and the potential to make 400 awhp on pump gas. But I'm not sure about the autox factor. The HTA 73 Green, according to FP website, comes with the 8cm2 turbine housing. Therefore it will spool a little later than say an unclipped evo3 16g with the normal 7cm housing that it comes with. Even though there's probably close to 100 hp difference in the pump gas potential between these two turbos, it could be a tossup between them when it comes to autox, depending on the speed of the course.
When you look at the dyno chart I posted in post #2416 it looks great - 250 hp at 4000 rpm, great low speed response. But remember that is the evo9 Green which uses the evo twin-scroll turbine housing - better low end response. The HTA Green for the DSM is single scroll 8cm, so it will have just as good upper rpm power but come in a little later at the low end.
Clipped turbine wheels I'm not really a fan of and they hurt the low end of your rpm range.
If it were me I think I would do either the HTA73 Green or an unclipped evo3 16g. But you should maybe get some advice from a DSM awd autox person.

 

[Sik95TSI]

That turbo is a bit of a pain in the ass. I did it on Kait's 2g. You have to clock the housings, come up with a WG actuator solution, and swap on a 7cm housing, and then you're still left with a 48lb compressor that can't get over ~44 due to hotside restrictions. The 20g really needs to be done with a 6H turbine or similar, or at least the old school big ass clip, otherwise you might as well stick with an EVO 16g IMO. I have been using that 10cm turbine housing to run other TD05H turbos on my T3 manifold though, so it wasn't a complete waste.

So your saying if I go with the FP Green I'm going to have more trouble instead of a easy install and great results? Big 16g sounds great but won't get me to my 400-450whp...

 

[Kevin Jewer]

That's for the T3 20g, not the green. The Green is a great turbo. We actually swapped that 20g for an old school green and Kait ran low-mid 11s on a trans that Shep said shouldn't have even been driveable. Everything but the center diff was scrapped... The new green should be even better but I have no experience with it.

 

[Sik95TSI]

That's for the T3 20g, not the green. The Green is a great turbo. We actually swapped that 20g for an old school green and Kait ran low-mid 11s on a trans that Shep said shouldn't have even been driveable. Everything but the center diff was scrapped... The new green should be even better but I have no experience with it.

Oh on thank god!! I'm going green!! I'm sure I will be happy with results!

 

[TimF]

I am looking for a turbo to bolt on this summer. I want to make 400hp, maybe on 93, or E85 (I looked into meth/water but it does not seem like a good idea). I been reading and seen a 20g is a good, and what I was originally thinking. But a lot of people say to use a 50 trim,and to be honest I dont know what that is. I just got a offer on a 20g TDO6 but I read that they have a lot of lag, and a TDO5 20g is a better option. I am still looking into 20g, and using a 2g mani. I have a 91 AWD, and from some of the other threads it is recommended to use a diffrent turbo from a FWD to AWD. I really dont have a lot to spend, that is another reason I want a 20g, they can be had for about 400$, and that is what I am looking at spending.

My set up for the summer includes-
272 cams
kiggly spring/ retainers
255 pump
thinking 750cc if I go 93, 1000cc in I do E85

 

[DSMnoobsause]

Have you searched dsm 50 trim? You should also look at the dyno section and see what mods they have and what turbo they use.

 

[DSMnoobsause]

Looks like you would need a turbo that flows 46-50 lbs/min. Then size injectors to work at 80% or less duty cycle to that airflow.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Hit Up Justin or Austin for a 20g.They will hook you up.

 

[turboglenn]

Lagis relative to what you expect, high power and fast spool do NOT go together plain and simple, if you want to make power you're gonna have to do it in a higher rev range...here's a reply to a PM i sent a litte bit ago about the same subject... it's a generalization and isn't meant to sound rude it';s just someplain and simple facts (and where i quote say "can't expect high horsepoiwer turbo to make 20psi before 4k RPM" I know there's exceptopns by holsets so please no corrections people )

and in my opinion, if you consider a 16g "laggy" you shouldn't bother upgrading any larger unlessyou're willing to learn to live with things much laggier in exchange forpower, but remember, although you lose some RPM to "lag" down low, you gain a lot of usefull RPM up top due to the added airflow a larger turbo will provide

I think you may be a little too concerned with spool... read the holset results only thread and you'll get an idea of where you'll be but honestly, if you forget about spool and think about overall power goals you'll get where you want to be with less dissapointment, power comes at the expense of spool and there's nothing you can do about that besides add nitrous.. If 400+ hp is your goal you'll just have to forget about having boost levels above 20psi before 4k + RPM, but you will have power for a lot more top end RPM AS well... HP as a result of enertia and force and without exception requires more RPM as the total output increases, that's basic physics and again without nitrous there's nothing to change that.

I think you need to pick a horsepower range you want to be in and study the dyno charts of others and see if the behaviours of the engine at those levels are something you will be able to live with in daily driving. IN my honest opinion after having had all the turbos i have and still to this day having nitrous i can blast at any time I can say that I feel there's no need for anything much to be going on below 4500 RPM, you'll never be that low of RPM in a race and in traffic even with a slower spooling turbo you'll be able to overtake or pass about anything on the road by either rolling into it in 5th and dealing with only having a few psi able to be made at ~3000RPM or you can downshift into third and almost instantly spool any turbo up to about a 35R and rocket past anything in your way... Having a turbo that will spoolup and make a lot of power below that 4500 RPM range (give or take 2-300 RPM) is only going to break transmissions or cause detonation because of the load placed on the parts and the lack of total flywheel efect of the engine and other rotating parts)

YOur best bet it to find some local people that have both a large laggy turbo car and something like a large16g turbo car and ride in both.. feel both from a 1st gear launch and feel both from a 5th to 3rd downshift on the interstate and decide if you want that v8 style torque that dies off early and feelssmooth and broad or if you want the late but hard hitting powerband of something that willscare you as a passenger and sometimes as the driver....

Hell i don't like lag, but i don't sweat it because i can downshift the car, even on my old T67 turbo that spooled around 5500 RPM it was daily driven rather easily, although it was boggy unless kept in the 4500 and up RPMrange it out ran everything fromvettes to 600cc sport bikes, a fast spooling 16g will only be able to dream about that, so you have to pick a side of the fence and build to that, fast spool and high horsepower just don't go together without nitrous,and nitrous = torque and torque is what smokes clutches and breaks parts

The fact that my holset spoolsas fast as it does in the early RPM range is just an impressive example of the technology that is built into them by holset, but when it comes to going fast you'll never catch me trying to usethe power made in that low rpm range,, I'll have my engine around 5K RPM or above making real power and using the engine properly, the power below that PRM range is only really useful on the highway on uphill slopes or getting around traffic smoothly (not fast like a downshift) but just torque'ing along, but it's in no way usefull when it comes to actual performance (but it does make for a nice looking dyno plot if that's the typoe of thing youre after, but as many have stated, dyno numbers mean very little in the real world and were never meant as a definitive statement of a car's potential but rather as a tool for tuning your engine)

I'm not trying to sound confusing or rude, butI get requests likethis a lot and there's no way i can choose for some one what they should do, but what i can do is lay out what each path will be like and i still really suggest getting to ride in and possibly drive cars built on both opposite sides of the spectrum and then decide what you want... YOU forget all about lag when you're rocketing past the little quick spooling tubo that ran out of steam at 5500 RPM

 

[vash_1010]

400$?... Gtp38, uses t3/t4 bearings if you want to save even more money and rebuild one

 

[JusMX141]

I really dont have a lot to spend, that is another reason I want a 20g, they can be had for about 400$, and that is what I am looking at spending.

You're not going to find much that isn't used for $400.

Evo III 16G's now hover around $1000...the day of the $400-500 new performance turbo are gone.

 

[turboglenn]

hahaha....the powers of moderation at work