Which Turbo Should I Get [merged] What Turbo

[Ludachris]

Which turbo will be sufficient for consistent 11 second times? I've recently decided on a big 16g, but will that be big enough to run 11s with supporting mods and decent tuning? Remember, this is for a budget street car, so any one purchase over $1k is tough. A big 16g will run about $700-900, which is about $300-400 less than the larger alternatives.

Of course, I'll need lots of practice to run these times, but, I just want to make sure that it's possible before the money is spent.

 

[hediki12]

e316g!!! it will flow alot more that air than is needed for 300whp

 

[jag987]

I would say 16g

These boost creeping problems can be solved without going to a smaller exhaust. You could use an external wastgate, or en external dump o2 housing. DNP makes a header for a recirculated external waste gate off the manifold. It is expensive though.
The car does not need back pressure after the turbo. You may take a small hit in the low end though.

 

[ed_dogg23]

I am currently running a 14b with a e3 16g housing and I have no problems with boost creep with full 3 inch exhust after 18 psi. The car hits full boost at 2300 rpm. Just my 2 cents. . . . However I will be back to the 60 trim very soon!!!!!

 

[lazyazzdaddy]

i would have to say the MHI evoIII 16g. that thing will put a smile on your face every time you drive your car. only thing though, i didn't see anything about a front mount i.c. and a boost controller which your going to need.

 

[dsm-onster]

Sorry, just have to ask. Not busting anyones chops. I'm jsut really, really curious. Why are you all recommending such a big turbo for such a meager goal?

So many people NEVER go much past 300whp later. He can sell a smaller used turbo for what was it cost to him used, and have a bit faster spool while still netting his goal. . .

 

[JayRolla]

Wrong. Larger exhaust will not create enough backpressure for the stock wastegate system to function properly. When the flapper opens, there won't be enough restriction in the turbine housing to divert airflow past the housing and through the wastegate. You'll have no control of the turbo's boost level, making tuning damn near impossible. Eventually you'll overspin the turbo, melting the inducer tips right off the turbine wheel:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

...but it won't hurt the car.



It still is for 95% of the DSMs on the road running the stock turbo at the stock boost level.

Yes you are right but thats why you port the turbine housing correctly so more air is easily diverted to the wastegate and all your issues are fixed.

 

[ToughTalon]

Sorry, just have to ask. Not busting anyones chops. I'm jsut really, really curious. Why are you all recommending such a big turbo for such a meager goal?

So many people NEVER go much past 300whp later. He can sell a smaller used turbo for what was it cost to him used, and have a bit faster spool while still netting his goal. . .

I would assume everyone is recommending a 16g because,
A: Easier to make more power with less knowledge/tuning(with-in reason)
B: 16g turbos are everywhere, Wal-mart sells 16g turbos now the 16g is also great becuase it is SO tried and true that its a good starting point for anyone going to their first turbo upgrade.

Whenever someone is new to this stuff I would always recommend the easiest route to get solid results without a headache.

 

[ilco187]

Wal-mart sells 16g turbos now

wait, what WTF

 

[dsm-onster]

I would assume everyone is recommending a 16g because,
A: Easier to make more power with less knowledge/tuning(with-in reason)
B: 16g turbos are everywhere, Wal-mart sells 16g turbos now the 16g is also great becuase it is SO tried and true that its a good starting point for anyone going to their first turbo upgrade.

Whenever someone is new to this stuff I would always recommend the easiest route to get solid results without a headache.

You can get to 300whp JUST as easily with a 14b wiht a 7cm^2 turbine housing. Same VE as a 16g with the same upgrades, because it has same flow per psi as a 16g with the same upgrades up to 34ish lb/min. Thus the same boost required to meet the same goal under 34lb/min (over 300whp). This means that there's no more heat added, that the intercooler can negate. There's only a 5 degree farenheit difference in 75% efficiency and 65% efficiency of compressors when either is feeding a 70% efficient intercooler, which any decent frontmount can do.

I'm not pushing my suggestion as the best. After all I don't know if the OP will be staying at his goal. Just wondering why the 16g is better because it's "tried and true" (just more recently) when the 14b has the same turbine wheel. All it needs is a 16g turbine housing to be a 16g up to the mid 30s in lb/min airflow. The compressor map is out there for everyone to see. Not to mention the results the 14b has already delivered over and over and over again

Yes you are right but thats why you port the turbine housing correctly so more air is easily diverted to the wastegate and all your issues are fixed.

I think he already retracted. If I had a dime for every post I've misread. . . Id be poor, but that's because of inflation

 

[lazyazzdaddy]

Sorry, just have to ask. Not busting anyones chops. I'm jsut really, really curious. Why are you all recommending such a big turbo for such a meager goal?

So many people NEVER go much past 300whp later. He can sell a smaller used turbo for what was it cost to him used, and have a bit faster spool while still netting his goal. . .

My thinking when posting was the the reverse of yours i just thought everyone was like me. i set a goal and when i hit it i always set a new one.
As for the set up you recommended i honestly have no clue about it so i was just suggesting something I have tried that worked out very well for me. un'till i just had to go bigger!

 

[dsm-onster]

Understandable. I've just seen too many who don't break 300whp with a 16g for too long. It's not the 16g turbo's fault at all. But they upgrade from a 14b . . .

 

[jag987]

Sorry, just have to ask. Not busting anyones chops. I'm jsut really, really curious. Why are you all recommending such a big turbo for such a meager goal?

So many people NEVER go much past 300whp later. He can sell a smaller used turbo for what was it cost to him used, and have a bit faster spool while still netting his goal. . .

I might be misunderstanding, but it sounded like your first post was saying to get a 14b, and then swap the housing and make a 16g. I paid $75 for my first upgraded turbo, it was a small 16g.
Another thing to consider is you can order the evoIII 16g brand new. I supose you could also get a 14b rebuilt.
I do belive Onster, 300 hp is withing the 14b s range, and they are available for good deals.

 

[lazyazzdaddy]

Cheap good stock 1g manual car 14b. Swap on a 7cm^2 turbine housing from a blown 16g. Or pick up just the housing used. Best bang for your buck turbo upgrade for you 2g guys. It's a 34lb/min compressor with a turbine that can do 400whp with minimal lag difference between a stock 6cm^2 14b. 34lb/min can easily put you over 300whp

Port the flapper hole and put a bigger flapper one on. You'll may need to do something like shim the stock actuator (put washers under the actuator flange), as you might blow open the flapper at somewhere around your goal. Some do, some dont.

just wondering about this set up. ive got a friend who has been looking into the evoIII mostly at my reccomendation. can you give me a ball park figure on the cost to set one up i know for the evo you can pick them up for about 550 or so. i was just wondering what the price difference would be after purchasing the parts and having it balanced. money is very tight for him. also i thought 550's "which he was given for free." with a 190 pump and safc should work. will that be enough for this set up? he really did'nt want to have to get an afpr and injectors

 

[zhjiln]

small 16G ... can achieve 300 hp .... great little street turbo ...

 

[2gawdtsi]

yes that would probably be enough...
of course bigger injectors/pump gives you more room to play with...
but 550's and a 190 will probably do if hes on a budget, with a good tune.

 

[Fox1486]

Evo III 16g. All day long.

Why settle with a small 16g? The difference in lag should not even come into it. Plus you'll eventually want more boost. Its addictive and the E316g has some room to grow.

 

[lazyazzdaddy]

thanks, i thought it would. it helps because he's really trying to get away as cheap as he can. he just turned 16 and only has a very limited income. but he's my nephew and has always loved cars and wants nothing more than to be able to build his own car. so i'm trying to do everything i can to help.

 

[dsm-onster]

I noticed about a 300rpm lag difference between the small 16g and the evo3 16g.

You can get a used 14b for nothing. Run it as is and probably could achieve your goal. But I picked up a used 7cm^2 turbine housing for $50 recently. This will guarantee you can reach your goal with stock cams . It will be harder with a stock longblock to reach 300+whp with a clammy tight 6cm^2 14b turbine housing.

I might be misunderstanding, but it sounded like your first post was saying to get a 14b, and then swap the housing and make a 16g. I paid $75 for my first upgraded turbo, it was a small 16g.
Another thing to consider is you can order the evoIII 16g brand new. I supose you could also get a 14b rebuilt.
I do belive Onster, 300 hp is withing the 14b s range, and they are available for good deals.

The 14b is a compressor wheel. The turbine side will be all 16g, wheel and housing. Most don't get a reall 16g that's not blown for that price.

Last I paid for that 7cm^2 14b combination was a total of $200 for a good used 14b and 7cm^2 housing. I had 2 turbine housings to swap back and forth, if I wanted to. . .

 

[JusMX141]

Yes you are right but thats why you port the turbine housing correctly so more air is easily diverted to the wastegate and all your issues are fixed.

All the porting in the world and even a modded actuator can't make up for an exhaust system with too little restriction:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/blogs/mr-peepers/455-boost-creep.html

 

[dsm-onster]

Yep, at some point while opening exhaust more and more, you just simply need a larger gate and an actuator upgrade/modification to keep it from blowing open (if you want to run low boost sometimes and high boost others).

If you want to push the turbo all the time, then you don't need to do any WG work

 

[JayRolla]

All the porting in the world and even a modded actuator can't make up for an exhaust system with too little restriction:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/blogs/mr-peepers/455-boost-creep.html

I still dont agree. I ran OPEN DOWNPIPE and had zero creep with my 16g. 18psi all day long. How much more high flow exhaust can you get. I ran it this way for three months since I lost my exhaust in a wreck and couldnt afford a new one. I do run my open all the time and wish I would have ported to cause creep instead of stop it now.

 

[dsm-onster]

You run at an altitude that lessens the creep. A turbine draws work from the exhaust gases based on a function of MASS flow of the gases. You're flowing less mass per psi because you ride high up where the air is thinner.

My town is 13-20 ft above sea level. My small 16g crept a little with no cat and 2.5" crush bent piping with a stock 1g o2 housing

 

[JayRolla]

You run at an altitude that lessens the creep. A turbine draws work from the exhaust gases based on a function of MASS flow of the gases. You're flowing less mass per psi because you ride high up where the air is thinner.

My town is 13-20 ft above sea level. My small 16g crept a little with no cat and 2.5" crush bent piping with a stock 1g o2 housing

Damn, you still got me. That may be true. Now if I think about it I did creep about 2 psi when the exhaust was off. I would hit 18psi and about 6k rpms I would creep a little. If I would go past redline I may have kept going but it was still under control.

Edit: Your 16g crept with that piping and was ported correctly to stop creep?? If no porting than yea I believe now, because my brother had no creep on his 2.5" piping untill he removed his cat.

 

[dsm-onster]

Oh, yes. This was a pure, untouched MHI small 16g. For me and the SMALL 16g, simply using Mr. Peepers' actuator mod was enough to curb the creep.

When I ran 3" piping I started at over 20psi, and didn't seam to have a problem from all my pulls and playing around with it (before it crept from 20psi to 25-26psi). It was flowing about 36lb/min, close to the edge of the small 16g map. No creeping from 20psi up. . . never even played with it below that point

 

[grimdsm]

not to jack the thread but i want between 400-450 what do you guys recommend?