Which Turbo Should I Get [merged] What Turbo

[Ludachris]

Which turbo will be sufficient for consistent 11 second times? I've recently decided on a big 16g, but will that be big enough to run 11s with supporting mods and decent tuning? Remember, this is for a budget street car, so any one purchase over $1k is tough. A big 16g will run about $700-900, which is about $300-400 less than the larger alternatives.

Of course, I'll need lots of practice to run these times, but, I just want to make sure that it's possible before the money is spent.

 

[agentorange313]

Some of the supporting are already installed on my car and the rest like bigger injectors,bigger fuel pump and a eprom ecu with a chip are ordered I just need recommendations before I buy the turbo and fmi and yes I been working on the car maintenance before I go to the next step

You will soon find that most people on here will not spoon feed you the info that is already available searching these forum.

DSMs have been around for 20 years, someone has already looked for a turbo thats in your range and has results.

BTW, whats FMI? Fuel Management something?

 

[turbotom]

Whatever your heart desires really, because now a days automatics are stepping up their game so with the right combo and some tweaking for the auto shift points + full line pressure on race mode. The sky is the limit, just as long as it has a good tune,.

 

[juve12]

My bad I meant front mount intercooler and by modifications I'm asking because most intercoolers are made for 5 speed

 

[Bud92gsx]

It will depend on your turbo choice..But a FMIC(FMI) is pretty universal when comes to auto and 5 speed..



Once you find out where your goals are, along with budget. Then come back to this thread and we would love to throw ideas around..But you kind of have to have an idea of where your headed with the car.

 

[jdlohr]

I'm not sure if there are any kits that don't require a slight amount of modification...

Since you're eventually going to end up with a 16g , your best option for a FMIC is probably the VRSF/PR/MAP kit. $200ish. Modifications required: you'll have to cut a small section out of the radiator support (a cheap Dremel works) and, depending on which kit you get, drill a couple holes to mount it.

And yes, those will work with an auto and your current turbo until you have more supporting mods.

 

[rEclipserGST]

I have an auto. Running a fmic with a 14b w/ external wg. Should be in my profile gallery. If not, take a peak at this

Facebook

 

[juve12]

Thanks jdlohr that's what I really need to know now I just need to compare prices

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

BTW, whats FMI? Fuel Management something?

dont you know all the lingo abs,pcs,psm,dsm, haha i had to think about it then i was like ohhhh thats what he ment

 

[007jimmy]

I have an auto with the VRSF FMIC. It has the option for a J-pipe with the kit for a 16g turbo which will get you to your HP goal. While I was down there I moved my trans cooler to the passenger side where the stock sidement was. It shortened the lines for the cooler considerably. Last thing you have to do reguarding the install on the auto is that you have to bend the trans dipstick tube to clear the UICP. Its just a slight move nothing major. Any questions feel free to ask.

For your goals, you dont need a expensive FMIC.

 

[juve12]

^^^^ This is the kind of information that I was asking for from a guys who has or had experience with an auto dsm

 

[Bud92gsx]

You could go with the supra SMIC and hard piping for only 350 hp..Make some custom air inlets for your filter and IC..

Moving the trans cooler is a really good idea..Get some AN lines and fitings, remount the cooler.BAMM

 

[SIMGSX]

I pick up the car I have now, but it was Auto FWD, and I put the typical Evo 16G, CX racing FMIC, FIC 850cc injectors, Manley valve springs and delta 272 regrinds. Then a FP race mani. And it was alright of course. Boost whenever I wanted it. Pretty sure I was around that HP your looking for.

All i know is that whatever you decide on, you can never have a to big of a FMIC!
Treadstone makes AWESOME front mounts.

 

[juve12]

How difficult was the install with that cx racing fmic especially the upper part by the transmission

 

[DSM_GSX01]

yes i was going to be buying a 20g soon but i just want to kno if it will be best with my set up?i am going to go forged pistons and rods with arp head and main studs. i was going to use a MLS head gasket also. any help will be great. thanks

also i wanted to know 20g turbos from Mitsubishi bolt up stock right?

 

[destruckeclipse]

If your profile is complete then you need some injectors for the 20g at the least. A Mitsu 20g as they call it will bolt up to the stock manifold as well. It will have to be setup for that though so make sure it is before buying.

A 20g might not be a wise choice for a 500whp build, it won't make that much power and you would be hard pressed to make 450. Your plans for the car other then a 500whp dyno?

 

[We're on Boost]

Well it makes a big difference whether you want to make your hp goal on pump gas, or on E85, or on race gas 110 octane or greater. A turbo like the FP HTA Green could probably make about 400 whp on 93 octane pump gas, assuming all your other mods are very good. With E85 or race gas it could make quite a bit more than 400.
A 20g would make less hp than a HTA Green.

 

[DSM_GSX01]

so a 20g is not good for my goal correct? and i will be running pump gas for now but i want to switch to E85 is this a problem? what turbo set up should i go with? i want to run the 20g but if i dont have a good chance of making my goal i wanna change it? and yes i will want to run bigger injectors. what should i put?

 

[We're on Boost]

so a 20g is not good for my goal correct? and i will be running pump gas for now but i want to switch to E85 is this a problem? what turbo set up should i go with? i want to run the 20g but if i dont have a good chance of making my goal i wanna change it? and yes i will want to run bigger injectors. what should i put?

I would say that using a 20g would make it very hard to reach your goal.
E85 is not a problem for the turbo. It is only a problem in that you need more flow rate from your injectors and fuel pump than you would need with gasoline at the same horsepower. Then your engine management has to be able to handle those injectors. ECMLink (DSMLink) would handle it fine.
Injectors that would carry you through all the way to 500 whp, well, you have to look into High Z (high impedence) versus Low Z (low impedence) and decide which way to go. Not that hard, I think a good choice would be these 1100cc High Z injectors from FIC:

1100cc FIC Mitsubishi DSM or EVO 8/9 Injector Set (High-Z)

The above page comes in real slow, wait a while then scroll down!

Read the FIC FAQ's which explain High and Low Z, deleting the stock resistor pack, and a few other things:

Frequently Asked Questions

The turbo that comes immediately to mind is the current Forced Performance "FP Green for DSM". This is an HTA turbo. Web page is here:

Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP GREEN for DSM

This turbo is made to fit on the regular DSM type exhaust manifold and use the regular DSM type O2 housings, so it is bolt-on. "FP race manifold" would be a good exhaust manifold to go with it if you want better than stock. When they say up to 540 hp for this turbo they are of course talking about race gas and good mods on your engine. Notice they rate it at 54 lbs per minute.

 

[DSM_GSX01]

ok i will read on that low and high Z. then i will ask questions. i thought a 1000cc injector is were i would want to be.

also on the turbo i like that turbo just don't have enough for it. but i wanted to know could i go with like a hx35 or something like that? i would like the FP GREEN if i could find one?

 

[We're on Boost]

ok i will read on that low and high Z. then i will ask questions. i thought a 1000cc injector is were i would want to be.

also on the turbo i like that turbo just don't have enough for it. but i wanted to know could i go with like a hx35 or something like that? i would like the FP GREEN if i could find one?

An HX35 would be good for the hp range you are talking about. But if you want to go Holset you should spend a bunch of time first reading through posts in the Holset threads, just so you know what the options are and how to get around all the little problems. With the current Green, "finding one" means I guess you'd look for a used one, probably not that easy since it is pretty new (about a year is all) so most people who have bought one are probably still using it! The old Greens from a few years ago were good too but a little smaller, would not make as much HP.
The Holset thread just keeps going and going, I think they are on Holset 9 now. Here's a link if you haven't seen it yet:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/436168-holset-turbos-part-9-a.html

On E85 1000cc would probably not get you to 500 awhp, in fact 1100cc probably won't either but you'd be close.
Injectors should be easy but unfortunately they are quite a topic lately with the switch over to high Z types, and more people using E85 which requires about 30% bigger injector than gasoline. If you want to see what I mean, read this thread in evom:

new high-Z injectors coming from FIC - evolutionm.net

 

[DSM_GSX01]

i will do some reading before i choose. also the hx35 is that a good turbo to count on? if i choose to go with the hx35 i will ask more questions after i read.

and i did not know that gas requires a bigger injector. i have been reading on injectors today.

 

[We're on Boost]

i will do some reading before i choose. also the hx35 is that a good turbo to count on? if i choose to go with the hx35 i will ask more questions after i read.

and i did not know that gas requires a bigger injector. i have been reading on injectors today.

E85 requires a bigger injector than gasoline.
While you're at it you might as well read about fuel pumps too, because the regular Walbro 255 HP that most people buy won't get you past 400 awhp on E85. If you want enough pump to take you all the way to 500 on E85, check out this new Walbro 450 lph pump designed for E85:

STM: WALBRO 450 LPH E85 FUEL PUMP | F90000267 | 400-0085

Don't believe the 800 hp rating stated. That is for normally aspirated engines where the fuel pressure is lower (pump can flow more at lower pressure) and it is probably crank hp, not awhp. Install kit is "universal" which, I don't know, you would want to ask Emery at STM (or post for info in here somewhere) if there are any problems putting it on the stock DSM pump hanger and soforth.

HX35 is definitely a good turbo, reliable, good performance. It's just a lot more complicated than buying something that is already designed to bolt-on, like a Green or a Red (FP). Lots of decisions to make, turbine housing, wastegate, O2 housing, it's big (not much room left over for a fan, might have to dent the water pipe), 7 blade (current model) or 8 blade (older model), needs large oil drain line, buy new or used - if used plan on sending it to Justin or somebody for a rebuild, you know, stuff like that!

 

[BoyRacerBlu]

^^^^^^ number qouted as its AT THE CRANK for cars

I run two on my HX52 powered 3000gt vr4- custom compressor setup to use the flow- great pump and quiet

Your arguement in regards to the fuel pressure doesn't make sense for the mechanical principles of a return based fuel system- the rating FOR THE PUMP is based on the volume of fuel supplied BY THE PUMP at a certain voltage and pressure- ie 14V. The industry standard for fpr pressure's on a return based fuel system is 43.5 psi. This is true for boosted or na apps- the only difference being that the boosted cars regulator is a rising rate regulator- as positive pressure enters the intake, the fpr sees it and raises the fuel psi per psi above atmospheric in the intake to avoid going lean for fuel delivery in a mechanical sense.

When you raise fuel pressure- you increase injector size- but you ACTUALLY lose fuel pump flow rates- as the pump physically can't flow a specific amount of fuel over a specific amount of time (fuel output like the LPH its rated by) as the circulation system is restricted to bump up fuel pressure. So by cranking the fuel pressure, you lose output capacity- so WHY ON EARTH would an NA car be ANY more inclined to raise its fuel pressure bc its NA? That point makes no sense as both systems operate fuel delivery the same- mechanically speaking- outside of a rising rate regulator that raises fuel pressure for each psi above ambient. If ANYTHING- boosted systems would appear to lose out in the fuel cap dept of their pumps.


in AWHP terms, one wally "485" as we'll call it supports about 650 awhp on e85 with appropriate injectors. This as been already done on this guy's personal car.

His name is Ray Pampena and owns Pampena motorsports in NYC

they're setup for 3000's, but work on several big hp cars, everything from 1000rwhp comaros, to 1200awhp 3000gts/stealths, 800-1000hp dsm's, evo's, STI's, ect- excellent shop

Video below is Ray's 3000gt with bolton turbos running ONE 485 on e85- his second DD and weekend warrior.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6pDSaQ7kec]Ray Pampena 650awhp 3000GT 1st through 4th - YouTube[/ame]

He's running 1000cc injectors

bolt on DR750 turbos (one of the biggest td04 boltons available- still tiny as its a GT28 sized comp wheel stuffed in a 9b compressor cover, but impressive none the less)

full exhaust, safc/maft

and ONE wally "485" at 43.5 psi rail pressure

 

[We're on Boost]

This is true for boosted or na apps- the only difference being that the boosted cars regulator is a rising rate regulator- as positive pressure enters the intake, the fpr sees it and raises the fuel psi per psi above atmospheric

There's your answer right there. A small boosted 4 cylinder engine like a DSM 2 liter might be running at 30psi boost or more to make its power, so the fuel pressure is ~ 75 psi. At 75 psi the Wally flow rate is a lot less than it is at 43.5 psi. So the applications where you get maximum flow rate from the pump are in large normally aspirated engines, like a large V8. Being NA, the pump will never see more than the base fuel pressure and it will flow enough to make a very large horsepower number. Put the same pump on a small engine running high boost, the pump sees much higher pressure, so max potential engine output is limited to a lower figure. I suppose it would have been more obvious if I had said in my previous post a LARGE normally aspirated engine. I did not mean a little 2 liter normally aspirated.

 

[DSM_GSX01]

do you know anyone that is selling a FP GREEN turbo? i think i am going to go with that. i have a 255 for right now till i get my build done. then i will switch everything over for E85. even the bigger injectors.