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Weird setup on methanol fuel

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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
well
After sometime building my car , i had an hx40 6764 turbo on it , it moved around 70ish lbs/min at 39.4 psi @8krpms , sure it ran good at that pressure and rpms , but for my bad lucky , we are on this covid shit and there isnt to much things to.do with that setup for the lack of time and there isnt a drag strip around or near to me (near is 2 hours from here) , so car cant be used to much on streets due isnt street friendly setup at all , being auto .
One day i decided is time to use this thing often so a depower is needed , but at same time i want to get some knowledge pushing turbo at its limits , so decided to do a radical change to turbo from hx40 to a shitty t25 , to use on street but more likely i want to push this baby to 13s as first goal .
I have all the fuel support and the stuff so only turbo and some fab to make the things work was needed to put that dsm flanged turbos and still using my stuff
 

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import solutions

Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
First thing i consider to make easier things is a good plan for whatever goal needed , so we know thia turbos are very inneficient uptop , they are out of steam very quick, but i decided to understand all nature of this and see what can i do and what not
So first thing is to look at comp maps
I did a research and find this map
t25_60_nissan (1).gif
 

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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
so we can get that this turbo have a 24lbs/min airflow rate.
Then i need to do some calculations to plot at map with my engine displacement in this case 2.0 (122cid)
So now with that info i can see that at 1.2 pressure ratio (5+- psi ) i can get 3 or 4 lbs/min of airflow quick wich is nothing but that tell us is a very quick spool turbo , and its purpose on our cars is to spool off idle LOL at 1500 rpms and then having positive pressure , so for that low rpm spool and boost as sooner rpms we can get a torquey curve , but then well there are a few bad sides of the things , this turbo also at 2.0 pr (15psig) , wich is it efficiency point ,when our beloved 4g63 are at 5000 rpms are moving 24lbs/min of air , so thats the point where turbo its maxed out, and as rpm climb , turbo for its own nature , only can supply 24lbs min, and engine air demand is more , so now we will get a flat line of power , and even boost will start to fall on pressure to mantain that , getting from 15psi at 5000 rpm ,to
6 psi at 7000 , as example , so power is limited there
 

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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
Well with that data
Now we need to make a plan and see possible scenarios for our goals.
First goal is go into 13 sec at 1/4 on this baby so
I did a research of people and setup , who did something similar or better , to get a good ideas and i puts , so , after some research i found , people like jewers , justin, tony @extremesi , etc etc and for sure its will be mentioned jose mendoza "shorty " all of them and others did good things with t25 , from 13s to that insane low 10s of joses nitrous t25 car .
So talked with some of them and got some data tp start .
First i will not go further on pump gas , with this t25 alone , pass 15 psi efficiency drop.so a hot air coming to engine is an issue , so need to use a good fuel to no go into a knock issues quick.
Well i have all the fuel setup ready so in the part of stuff im ready
2150fics, 2x 044 pumps, 10an lines , 6 an return, aeromotive big return port , etc so im capable of use almost all fuels , from race gas to methanol with my current stuff.
 

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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
So now i need to work with what i have and what i can get here where i live (im from mexico)
In my specific area there is a lack of fuel options there are only 5 ways
1. Av gas
2. Methanol
3. Make my own ethanol/gas fuel
4. Race gas home brew , adding toluene , xylene , and alky to pump gas
5. Pump gas alone

First one ,i have bad thoughs of using leaded gasoline on those bosch based injectors
Methanol is ok but need to drain fuel but can live with , "e85" brew , race fuel home brew ,well not confortable feeling with that idea so not , pump gas , ok but not for try the best of this thingy turbo
 

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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
Well now we need to know some data to get a good idea (bench racing) of what i will run on certain scenarios.
Said this i know im.limited to spin engine high , its useless so need to use a low power , low rpm torque
Strategy .
From 3000 to 6.5 _7krpms at most
So getting with 24 lbs min at 4krpms at 20psi , i will have power window of a couple thousand rpms , until drops , using some factor to get estimated hp ball park numbers on different fuel i get
24lbs min
Gasoline(9.5) 220ish hps
Ethanol (10.5 ) (250is)
Methanol (11.5 ) ( 270ish)
Numbers depend on a lot of factors so that arent set on stone but they are a good starting point , we need to remember that mods grow engine efficiency so can get more or less power .
Saying that and having an idea of what power i can get now we need to know what can be do at strip
So some data is needed

Car weight
This car is a convertible , wich have a lot of weight loss , and having a race weight of 2740 of car alone
Plus me put car on 2900 lbs weight
 

randman2011

Proven Member
365
146
Feb 26, 2012
Indianapolis, Indiana
Aside from wanting to go smaller than the HX40, what made you pick the TB2566? It's not known for having a robust thrust bearing, and in general they don't hold up well to increased boost. Even once you get a tune that can reliably deal with intake air that hot you'll still have reliability problems coming from turbo failure. High hp stock turbo builds have been done but they're exceedingly uncommon for a reason. The FP T28 got a thrust bearing upgrade to address the problem, but from personal experience it wasn't enough.
 

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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
Well having that data now i can get a better idea of what i can get from my car at strip
Wich is around
From 13.7 on gasoline to 12.8 on alky
All of that data is with 60s about 1.9s
And traps 100+ mph

So seem first goal is very doable now , so need to start
 

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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
Aside from wanting to go smaller than the HX40, what made you pick the TB2566? It's not known for having a robust thrust bearing, and in general they don't hold up well to increased boost. Even once you get a tune that can reliably deal with intake air that hot you'll still have reliability problems coming from turbo failure. High hp stock turbo builds have been done but they're exceedingly uncommon for a reason. The FP T28 got a thrust bearing upgrade to address the problem, but from personal experience it wasn't enough.

Well its for the purpose of play with t25 , t28,14b and 16gs on order to make funny times and get knolwdge of how to improve things to get a little extra , on maxed setups . I know turbo will struggle to live when i push it
 

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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
The unhold boost issue is know on this turbo so
I decided to not move a lot of my current stuff , i have a t3 manifold with external wastegate wich is better for control , so i decided to keep that , so i ported turbi e inlet and outlet and o2 housong as well and added a t3 to dsm flange casymt adapter to keep with stuff but even wuth that a fab was needed as expected
On the wastegate i put an spring wich opens at 15 and are fully open gate at 20psi so is a good starting point
 

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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
Also oil drai was need to modified a little , but for my lucky with my hx40 setup only a new hose lenght was needed
For the feeding line just remain my extreme psi 4an line from ofh housing just matted /solder a fitting of 4an to oem hardline and was enought to work
FB_IMG_1614199406787.jpg
 

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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
After that "little" fab to make things work with current stuff was time to set wg pressure so started with a 15-20 psi spring wich at 20 psi is totally crack open , now plumbed is straight from turbo to bottom port of wg for awhile but think will remain as is , or maybe will set to get some peaks at low rpms and left at spring pressure at certain rpms
20210128_141710.jpg
 

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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
So having boost control done
And all other of things , i decided to make a kind of cold air intake wich will be used only to get the most cooler air can get on test (daily will use an fp intake coupled to a 4 to 2.5 " wich its filter as supposed to be) , remember that this kind of setups , that little improvements here and there are the key to gain that little extra due a lack of airflow for compressor being maxed , so i have a CARBONETICS ab hood with those big vents wich help with engine bay heat , so decided to put that cold air intake between them so i did with some piping and couplers that i had laying around , remember as dsm owners all of us have a hoarder inside so stuff always is laying around LOL
Will see how iats improve with and without on logs
20210205_173614.jpg
20210206_170806.jpg
20210207_150537.jpg
20210220_152636.jpg
 

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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
Well now we need to talk about mods i have
Engine is a commun h beam rods plus arias 8.8 comp pistons , fp2 cams (one of the best for autos and mid power with a good lift @50 ) fidanza cam gears , bc springs , titanium retainers , kiggly hla, and all 16 valves on +1 size , all of this in a ported 1g head , matted to a short runner big plenum smim , wich to be honest isnt the ideal combo for a smaller turbo combos , due its rpm range , IMO i could have better results with just a 2g head with an evo3 alone but i havent evo3 intake , so now i will go with i have or maybe then put a stock manifold to move power to left , or play cam gears a little to gain some low end power
 
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import solutions

Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
Well yesterday after work i decided to work a little on car , in this car i deleted and tucked a lot of wires to clean up and loss some weight , aside engine harness and its own relay it only have a little wiring for basic things wich are , fuel pumps, fans ,lights , and ecmlink controled outputs (fps/egr) wich controls n20 etc . I have a little mess with and older installations so i relocated and did all again, at same time i fixed a line wich was melted from an stuck pump issue wich was sit on methanol and got gelish
20210225_175829.jpg
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20210226_230958.jpg
 
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Proven Member
142
38
Apr 27, 2013
colimA, Texas
finally finished
Relay fuse panel it is now
5 relays

1.fuel pump
2.fan
3.egr output
4.fps output
5.lights

started Car on 20 meth 80 gas mix to see how all is working , as espected some leaks here and there etc ,now fixed , also wg solenoid terminal was hitting upper ic piping and blowing ecu fuse , so i fixed that to.
Now i founded i have an issue , with turbo , when i fire up engine first minutes are ok but then once its warmed it start to smoke like a train, so i just looking and had oil coming from dp etc ,inspected feed line and is to big , so added a .075 (oem one )restrictor , but that even doesnt fix the issue ,so turbo seal are blow for sure, i pulled plugs to check and there isnt oil etc so no problem related with engine , so now need to replace chra to continue

 
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