vr4 brakes, best pad/rotor

[buddy3824]

as stated, I have a 1g with vr4 front calipers, and they dont like to stop. Rotors are starting to glaze, I'm going to blame whatever cheap pads may be on there right now.
I like what I've read about the Hawk HPS. Hawk HB214F 618 HPS Performance Street Brake Pads Front | eBay I dont care about brake dust or noise at all. I want maximum power with the vr4 calipers.
What about rotors? I am taking the care to the Dragon next month, and I autox, so slotted or drilled? or both, what is the best here.
and what about stainless lines? will a 1g stainless like work on these calipers? or is a special conversion needed for them?
thanks

 

[habitatguy187]

You shouldn't be having too bad of problems stopping with the vr4 calipers, when was the last time your brake fluid has been flushed?

Also check pepboys for hawk pads. It's been a few years but I got a set back in the day for like $33 or something.

 

[buddy3824]

try to stop with glazed rotors, its like ice. thats the feeling I have. I flushed the system 2 years ago when I did rear calipers. Ill change the fluid again with this next round of parts. I dont live near a pepboys unfortunately. closest is 100miles away.

 

[Tyeler18]

You shouldn't be having too bad of problems stopping with the vr4 calipers, when was the last time your brake fluid has been flushed?

Also check pepboys for hawk pads. It's been a few years but I got a set back in the day for like $33 or something.

Hahaha I was hoping no one else knew my secret! I work at pepboys, all dsm hawk HPS pads are $23 for fronts!

If anyone wants hawk HPS message me and I will ship sets to you. I checked yesterday and our main warehouse had like 211 sets in it alone!

 

[serviceguy]

You may want to look into upgrading to a 3G master cylinder. SS lines will also help.

 

[habitatguy187]

Hahaha I was hoping no one else knew my secret! I work at pepboys, all dsm hawk HPS pads are $23 for fronts!

Haha I think it was you that I learned about it from way back when .

 

[Tyeler18]

Nah, I just started there like a month ago. There's a few other secret parts we've got there too....

 

[habitatguy187]

Do tell...

 

[buddy3824]

im interested too. haha.

that 3g m.c. looks like a pretty darn easy install, and to gain an 1/8" bore is pretty handy for pressure!

I'm thinking these rotors EBC 3GD Gold Slotted Drilled Front Brake Rotors GD679 | eBay

My one concern though is it says fitment condition 2wd. were 4wd rotors larger in size?

 

[mschlanglv]

A larger MC will actually reduce pad pressure for a given input force, no need to start swapping hydraulics yet. I have no doubt any good set of pads will solve your issues, if you don't care about dust go for the HPS or HP+.

 

[buddy3824]

I've got hawk HPS on the way, and I finally tracked down the 11.7" ebc rotors. they run about $270 for the set in case anyone is wondering, thats slotted and dimpled.

 

[serviceguy]

A larger MC will actually reduce pad pressure for a given input force, no need to start swapping hydraulics yet.

Care to elaborate?

 

[My1GLaser]

A larger MC will actually reduce pad pressure for a given input force, no need to start swapping hydraulics yet. I have no doubt any good set of pads will solve your issues, if you don't care about dust go for the HPS or HP+.

I am interested in doing this too. That sounds incorrect. With a larger bore and the same stroke there will be a larger fluid displacement. Since you can't compress a liquid, the pressure has to go up. Pressure=Volume*Temp

 

[mschlanglv]

It's a basic leverage ratio. The area of the master cylinder compared to the area of the slave cylinder. If you increase the size of the MC, you decrease the mechanical advantage of the system. Typing on an iPad sucks, so check out Brake Upgrade , specifically "Hydraulic "Leverage" Ratios (Mechanical Advantage)" about halfway down the page.

If you are going to mess with brakes, spend $9 and get this book, great info.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Brake-Handbook-Fred-Puhn/dp/0895862328[/ame]

P=vt? Not as long as I've been teaching science.

 

[My1GLaser]

Maybe my memory of the formula isn't correct.

 

[mschlanglv]

Maybe you were thinking of pv=t (pv=nrt)? Too many formulas floating around!

 

[ACM]

Oh dear - 40 years later and P1*V1/T1 = P2*V2/T2 pops straight into my head !

Oh dear, I think I need to go lie down...

 

[GPLaserRS]

Nah, I just started there like a month ago. There's a few other secret parts we've got there too....

Do tell...

Owwww, I second this ^^^

 

[serviceguy]

It's a basic leverage ratio. The area of the master cylinder compared to the area of the slave cylinder. If you increase the size of the MC, you decrease the mechanical advantage of the system. Typing on an iPad sucks, so check out Brake Upgrade , specifically "Hydraulic "Leverage" Ratios (Mechanical Advantage)" about halfway down the page.

If you are going to mess with brakes, spend $9 and get this book, great info.

Brake Handbook: Fred Puhn: 9780895862327: Amazon.com: Books

P=vt? Not as long as I've been teaching science.

I don't think the laws of physics are in question here, F=pA.

I was rather implying the fact that the OP has already increased the surface of the caliper cylinder when he upgraded to a set of VR4 calipers. Also to be considered that you're not applying the force to the master cylinder directly but through the brake booster that amplifies you effort on the pedal. Other members have done this upgrade and I am planning to do it as well shortly. What I am expecting is a faster brake response and possibly a little more required effort on the brake pedal, even though the latter would be most likely taken care of by the BB.

Most important, I also forgot to mention upgrading to a 8+9 BB again from a 3G along the 3G which should balance things back with regard to pedal effort and still make the brake response quicker.

 

[mschlanglv]

I don't think the laws of physics are in question here, F=pA.

I was rather implying the fact that the OP has already increased the surface of the caliper cylinder when he upgraded to a set of VR4 calipers. Also to be considered that you're not applying the force to the master cylinder directly but through the brake booster that amplifies you effort on the pedal. Other members have done this upgrade and I am planning to do it as well shortly. What I am expecting is a faster brake response and possibly a little more required effort on the brake pedal, even though the latter would be most likely taken care of by the BB.

Most important, I also forgot to mention upgrading to a 8+9 BB again from a 3G along the 3G which should balance things back with regard to pedal effort and still make the brake response quicker.

Total agreement. I was pointing out that if the car doesn't stop now with the MC it has, changing to a larger MC will not cure the issue. The MC should be balanced with the rest of the system as you say, but if the OP doesn't change pads the problem will get worse before it gets better.

 

[My1GLaser]

I was thinking purely in terms of fluid displacement when determining force. If you change the volume displacement on the MC end of the system, the pressure has to change in the caliper if no other changes are made. The extra fluid has to go somewhere. It isn't compressed, so pressure has to increase. That's my overly simplistic way of looking at it. I increased the clutch fork movement by 4-5mm on my clutch by going to a 1/16 or 1/8" smaller bore slave cyl. I was having disengagement issues and this solved it, so I translated that result over to the hydraulic brake system function.

Hmmmm... I already have VR4 calipers. Is my overall braking pressure reduced now because of this? I actually never really thought about my own brakes, cause my car already had these calipers when I bought it...It sounds like I should definitely upgrade the MC & BB from a 3G to balance it out and actually benefit from the larger piston calipers? Does every 3G have the same MC & BB?

 

[GPLaserRS]

I happened to run across a wrecked 3G at the junkyard and happened to snatch the MC and BB over the summer because Gofer was talking a lot about how much it would improve brake pressure and feel, and since I was gonna be doing the VR4 fronts it seemed like a solid move. They talk a lot about what years used the 8+9 BB and discussed part #'s too, if you don't mind a little reading check this thread - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/han...brembo-calipers-dsm-conversion-1g-too-13.html. The BB discussion heats up around post #360.