The problem with the motoman break-in method

[laserspeeddemon]

So it's about time for me to start my engine for the first time. Honestly, I'm scared to death. I have rechecked and rechecked things over and over again. I've been told MANY, MANY times to break-in my motor using the motoman method, and believe me I want to, but there's two problems:

Problem 1: How do I go hard on the throttle for a car that has no tune, no setup of any kind? I mean even my boost is not set yet, let alone the fuel/ignition maps. How does one get around this? According to motoman, if I don't do it his way within the first few miles, I'm out of luck and my only option is to rebuild the motor again. Do I just take a untuned car ripping for the first 20 or so miles?

Problem 2: Motoman says use NON-Synthetic 10w-40 oil for the first 1500 miles. That's actually a new one to me. I've always been told that a new motor using FULL Synthetic oil from the beginning has the best chance of survival. Also I've been told to use lower weights, like 5w-30 or even 0w-30. This is the exact opposite of what I know and/or been told. In fact, I just picked up 5w-30 FULL Synthetic oil.

Thoughts?

 

[Bud92gsx]

Stock ecu/tune, very low boost,pump gas.Common sense.

If your breaking in a motor, don't run 30 psi on e85 with a 35R.Just that simple right.

you may be overthinking stuff if you checked rechecked blah blah blah.Like home improvement, measure twice cut once.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

You're right, I maybe over thinking it, but I've dumped around $12,000 or so in this car (granted some of it was tools, but still), so I'm a bit worried I'm gonna screw it up.

The stock tune will not work with a HX40 or 1050cc injectors. I do have a tune with the 1050cc injectors on a 16g, but I'm going to have to do some work pulling the fuel where the 16g spools and the HX40 doesn't.

I saw a post by Paul, that said he ran 14psi @ 70% throttle. I think this will keep me out of the closed loop mode while the engine is breaking in, not sure how long he did it though.

 

[BogusSVO]

Who told you to use full syn. oil?

Use 1./30 or 5/30 dino oil

Like Bud said, stock ECU/settings and wasegate pressure.

Watch your Boost gauge, try not to go over 10-12psi

Then go Motor-man method.

His method is about the same way I have broken in engines since I started building them.

Edit- Saw you have 1050 injectors, drop your stockers in for about the first 100-200 miles, you should be fine with the HX on there.
Keep a close eye on the WB during break in.
Just apply some common sense and logic.

 

[Bud92gsx]

I would break in on the most stock stuff I had laying around.

Is your setup so much different than when you ran the holset before?

Most of the mods on here are freaks of nature.Sorry Paul, but it's true.

So I would see what kind of stock equipment you have to break in the motor.Don't worry pastors are rich as hell, so I would not worry about money.My pastor drives a Jag, so theres that.

 

[1fastlaser]

Ive broken in many motors that way.

I just broke in my new 2.4 gt42, 1550cc injector, twin pump, kelford 272 setup on a aem ems.
I had a tune in it from the last motor, but the head/valvetrain/cam setup completely changed the tune. Got it running went out on wastegate pressure and seated the rings AFTER the first warm up and oil change/filter change.

I run Mobil delvac super 1300 diesel oil for break in. Dino oil with zinc .

 

[crimsondragon]

Stay around stock boost levels, use a beater turbo if you have one. I use a 16g I have laying around for it. You should be able to get the tune within ballpark range on the richer side. Not sure what you're using to tune with. I've used DSMLink, dialed in using 850cc's and went boosting without a tune on a 50 trim. AFRs stayed around 10.

Always use dino oil. Synthetic is too slippery apparently and won't allow the rings and walls to wear together properly. Here's a good read:

http://www.tcmlink.com/visitors/carenfeed/brkin.pdf

If it's good enough for aircraft, it's even better on cars.

 

[Mr PopUps]

When i break in, i use the stock 7lbs by just going from the turbo outlet to the WG. Run it up in 2nd to 35 (hard) and coast down still in gear 3 times, then to 65 in 3rd on the highway 3 times and im done.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I would break in on the most stock stuff I had laying around.

Is your setup so much different than when you ran the holset before?

Most of the mods on here are freaks of nature.Sorry Paul, but it's true.

So I would see what kind of stock equipment you have to break in the motor.Don't worry pastors are rich as hell, so I would not worry about money.My pastor drives a Jag, so theres that.

My setups is DRASTICALLY different than before.

Old:
16g turbo, internally gated single Walbro 255, stock fpr, stock fuel lines, stock coil packs with Magecore wires. 9.0:1 Pistons 272 cams, no port work to head, stock valves, *maybe* upgraded springs. Stock Intake manifold; tiny 2.5 intake

New:
HX40 turbo, externally gated. twin Walbro 255, AFPR, -6AN fuel feed/return. COP setup, 8.5:1 Pistons, 272 cams, SIM Stage 2 part work, SS valves, Dual valve springs, JMF Intake drag Manifold , Massive 4" intake.

Cams are the same, injectors are the same. But that's about it.

And I'm an IT Contractor that going to school to be a pastor.

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

The key IMHO is to use the dino oil with zinc, to run low boost, and just get it to build some boost for a few seconds followed by some good vacuum by letting it decel in gear. If you can just get it to do that a few times in a row you should be good to go. Good luck!

 

[crash89]

I literally just started my Spyder last week, has about 110 miles on it now. I was hoping to be able to use the ECU I had last year that had my tune on it but unfortunately I had to give it back to the owner.. With that said, I had to buy link for myself.. I just set up my ecu for my injector and fuel set up before start up (well, Mr Peepers did) then during its warm up made some adjustments. As for the drive kept an eye on the WB and didnt boost over 10psi. I was a little rich in boost but not bad.

When I got back from the first drive my dipstick was out a good bit and was smoking pretty good due to blow by.. My second drive was totally different, no blow by and dipstick stayed in its place, no blow by, rings seated!!!

I used 10w30 conventional, oil change at 20 and am doing another today at around 120 miles. Im going to do a compression test today to see what it actually is.

I also think you're over thinking it.. I spent damn near 4k on my motor this fall so I know how you feel. Its pretty nerve racking and I was scared to start mine too.. But as long as your injectors and fuel system is set up in link and your A/Fs are in the ~ok range you'll be fine for the break in. Then you will have plenty of time to get it dialed in..

 

[TSITurbo95]

Don't mean to steal your thunder OP, but I too have similar issues. Setup is similar to the OP's (except I am 2.3".

Also my rings have about 15 mins of idle time on them, is that too much or am I still good to get them to seat?

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

If you want a little added security this might be something to try...

High Zinc Engine Break-In Oil : Lucas Oil

Don't mean to steal your thunder OP, but I too have similar issues. Setup is similar to the OP's (except I am 2.3".
Also my rings have about 15 mins of idle time on them, is that too much or am I still good to get them to seat?

You need to get some boost and vacuum on those rings if you want it to last. I hope you're not too late, as I've heard it needs to be done within the first 20 miles.

 

[TSITurbo95]

Luckily it dosent have any miles on it, just idle time. And when it gets put back together, ill go and beat the snot out of it

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Don't mean to steal your thunder OP, but I too have similar issues. Setup is similar to the OP's (except I am 2.3".

Also my rings have about 15 mins of idle time on them, is that too much or am I still good to get them to seat?

Not at all man, the reason to start a thread is too get answers, by ALSO to allow people with the same issue to refer back to them.

OK, So here is what I've gathered:

1. Use conventional oil, 5w-30, prime engine with a drill bit on the oil pump.
   Since I have the car already tuned for 1050cc injectors from my last build. I'm going to just use that since I know the car is well tuned cruise on these injectors. Though I'm not sure how the bigger turbo is going to affect this...
   
2. Set the AEM TruBoost to OFF (this runs on wastegate spring pressure)
   
3. Allow car idle until the coolant is at normal operating tempatures.
   
4. Run for the first 20 miles at about 70% throttle from the 3000 rpms to 7000 rpms then let the car decel in gear until about 2000 rpms. Do this AT LEAST 3-5 times.
   
5. Return home before 20 miles and change oil. Again with conventional oil, 5w-30.

**edit**
What is TOO rich for cruising. I don't want to "wash down" the cylinders.

 

[1fastlaser]

Use Mobil 1 delvac super 1300. Or some kind of designated break in oil with zinc. No break in additive crap.

Start engine hold it around 1500-2k fluctuating har a friend do it so you can make sure there isn't oil pouring out or water glass etc. get it up to temp make sure fans and all are working. Shut it off change oil/filter then go out and do low boost 3rd gear 30-50ish (does not have to be exact) full throttle make sure car isn't going lean! Do that a half dozen times or more.

After I do that I'm nuts and change the oil/filter again. Then it's time to get down! I continue if driving to fluctuate rpms so that there is no flaw in the break in. But after that I start tuning.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Ok so what's a a good oil change schedule?

Warm up: Oil Change
20 miles: (after Initial Break-in run)
80 miles (200)
150 miles (350)
250 miles (600)
350 miles (950)
500 miles (1500)
Switch to synthetic
500 miles (2000)
1000 miles (3000)
Then every 3000 miles

=======
Another thought:
Since I know my open loop map is going to be WAAAY off, would it be a bad idea to crank up the values in the "Immediate OL Loadfactor Threshold" and the "Delayed OL Loadfactor Threshold "tables to about 1.5-2.0 and cranking up the "Open Loop Throttle Threshold" table to about 75%-85%? Or is that a bad idea?

 

[ed1380]

I just started mine today. 2.3 with 264/272 cams. Mobile delvac 15-40 oil. Borrowed some stock injectors. Primed it by cranking with the plugs out. Just gonna break it in on wastegate pressure on a 14b.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Let me know how it goes.

 

[goodbye]

You've got it right, stick with your tune for the 1050's, turbo upgrade doesn't matter, just don't get into much boost. I always like to get on the freeway, barely get into boost and let it coast down several times to pull a vacuum and seat the rings properly. I drive it for 20 minutes like that, go home, change the oil and drive it normal after that. Works every time.

 

[white92talontsi]

You've got it right, stick with your tune for the 1050's, turbo upgrade doesn't matter, just don't get into much boost. I always like to get on the freeway, barely get into boost and let it coast down several times to pull a vacuum and seat the rings properly. I drive it for 20 minutes like that, go home, change the oil and drive it normal after that. Works every time.

You actually need to get into boost.

I have about 25 miles on my freshly built 2.4 and am already running 25psi on my HX40.

No blow-by and the dipstick stays firmly planted.

Boost is what is going to force the rings into the cylinder walls tightly. Then when you let off and go full vacuum you suck the oil off the cylinder walls.

I generally do maybe 10 pulls at moderate boost depending on the turbo and with each pull I let it pull Vacuum.

Then change the oil to your final oil you are going to use and drive the piss out of it.

 

[ed1380]

I was thinking pull and decell 1-2-3-4 till 4k at half throttle. Then 1234 till 4k at wot. Then 1234 @wot till 6k. And then for the next 20 miles just drive around town semi aggressive and all done at wastegate pressure ~10psi


Does that sound good?

 

[white92talontsi]

I was thinking pull and decell 1-2-3-4 till 4k at half throttle. Then 1234 till 4k at wot. Then 1234 @wot till 6k. And then for the next 20 miles just drive around town semi aggressive and all done at wastegate pressure ~10psi


Does that sound good?

Yes pull and decel. Do that like you said and you will be golden.

 

[Purple_Demon]

In for results.


Additional question, OP you said you are using DSM link?

So would there be any difference if a person were to use ECM Flash?

 

[white92talontsi]

In for results.


Additional question, OP you said you are using DSM link?

So would there be any difference if a person were to use ECM Flash?

What I reccomend for link users and ECU flash users is before you even start the car take your timing tables and change the cells that you know will be under WOT to 0.