The problem with the motoman break-in method

[allwheelTSI]

Don't put too much into the 20 mile theory. I've seen cars with unseated rings and a few hundred miles to a 1k miles seat rings and pick up compression after a good hard dyno session. Eddy brakes are wonderful things.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I just wanted to drop in for an update.

Since I knew the drill method worked I went ahead and primed the motor again. I then quickly put the timing belt back on. I verifed the timing and the tension. I then did a full cycle of the motor so that all sprockets were lined up again and rechecked the tension. It was dead on. It was then a race to get the timing belt cover, all pulleys and all belts back on. I put the motor mount in and bolt on the timing cover.

I started the motor and check around. However I could not keep the motor running at idle. The car was running lean (15-17:1) at idle and then would die. I started it again and tried to keep the RPMS around 2000. This worked, but it was running lean. I then started to hear a LOUD hissing. I shut the car off and did a boot least test and found that the throttle body gasket was leaking. I took the throttle body off an noticed the gasket was BARELY touching the manifold. The bore in my ungraded manifold seems a tad t0o big. I am in the process of contacting the manufacturer now for guidance.

 

[ThunderChild]

boo! finer tooth comb, . jk, gaskets can be a PITA. keep at it, interested to hear this through.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Well, I think I'm out of the game. I have no idea what happened here. I started the car let it get to operating temp. Shut it off and changed the oil/oil filter. So it was time to do the motoman method.

I got 5 miles and the engine started to knock. And by that I mean rod knock. Looking at the log to try to figure out what went wrong, but I got 3 more weeks and then I'm off to Afghanistan.

This is exactly what I was afraid was going to happen.

===========
Here's the log. Near the end there is a SUPER spike in knock retard, but I'm not sure if the engine caught TRUE knock or the rod knock.

 

[ed1380]

Really sorry to hear that. Did you build the motor yourself or was it a shop? If you caught it early enough you might get away with just new bearings.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

That part of the build is the ONLY part of the build that I did not handle myself.

 

[crash89]

Im sorry I cant look at the log at the moment. (at a friends house) Just so you know there was no reason to "race" to get the motor in and running.. I assembled my shortblock one day, asslembled the longblock and primed the next and started the car (after 3 attempts) the next night.. As long as your spec's were in order and you had adequet oil pressure theres no reason you should have had this problem..

Just like ED1380 said, if you cought it early enough your crankshaft and rods will most likely not be damaged, and you'll be able to just get new bearings and be ok..

Do you have an aftermarket oil pressure gauge? If so what was the reading upon startup/warmup? Was your stock gauge working? Perhaps you werent getting adequit oil pressure???

There are a few variables to consider at this time.. Ones that arent if correcrted could potentially ruin another motor..

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Im sorry I cant look at the log at the moment. (at a friends house) Just so you know there was no reason to "race" to get the motor in and running.. I assembled my shortblock one day, asslembled the longblock and primed the next and started the car (after 3 attempts) the next night.. As long as your spec's were in order and you had adequet oil pressure theres no reason you should have had this problem..

Just like ED1380 said, if you cought it early enough your crankshaft and rods will most likely not be damaged, and you'll be able to just get new bearings and be ok..

Do you have an aftermarket oil pressure gauge? If so what was the reading upon startup/warmup? Was your stock gauge working? Perhaps you werent getting adequit oil pressure???

There are a few variables to consider at this time.. Ones that arent if correcrted could potentially ruin another motor..

No oil pressure was fine. I primed the motor with a drill before the initial startup. With a drill I was getting 70 psi (cold pressure). During startup I got around 70 psi until the motor got warm and then I had around 20 psi. The motor saw more than 80 psi throughout the entire drive.

 

[YZFR1]

^^Looking at the log, you had knock happening at low rpm and low throttle even before it gave out. I think you might have had more boost leaks or even a pre-turbo leak, possibly.

 

[tron2119]

Wow man. That's awful! I'm sorry that happened to you. Have you notified the person or shop that assembled the bottom end for you?

 

[awdspyder98]

I know how you feel. Mine failed on the dyno after about a week. I was lucky enough to have caught it very early and didnt have any damage to my crank. The bearing was just starting to go. There was no shaving in the oil so I slapped new bearing in and it was good to go. Dont give up.. Just take a break and let it settle in, im sure after a few days to a week you will have the will to fix it and enjoy it the way it was meant to be.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

^^Looking at the log, you had knock happening at low rpm and low throttle even before it gave out. I think you might have had more boost leaks or even a pre-turbo leak, possibly.

99.9% sure it was not a boost leak. I boost leak tested the car serveral times before I took it out. It was hold boost so well that it blew the boost leak tester off.

And explain to me why a pre-turbo leak would harm the motor other than dust debris getting in the motor.

I know how you feel. Mine failed on the dyno after about a week. I was lucky enough to have caught it very early and didnt have any damage to my crank. The bearing was just starting to go. There was no shaving in the oil so I slapped new bearing in and it was good to go. Dont give up.. Just take a break and let it settle in, im sure after a few days to a week you will have the will to fix it and enjoy it the way it was meant to be.

I leave for Afghanistan in about 3 weeks. So I'm not going to have time to mess with it. I'm going to pop-off the VC and pray it was just a failed lifter.

 

[95eclipser]

Warm up: Oil Change
20 miles: (after Initial Break-in run)
80 miles (200)
150 miles (350)
250 miles (600)
350 miles (950)
500 miles (1500)
Switch to synthetic
500 miles (2000)
1000 miles (3000)
Then every 3000 miles

You are way over thinking it. I just finished mine

start up on stock injectors for 5 mins. Stopped changed oil using wix filter and castrol gtx none synthetic oil.

Set idle and cruse tables using 1050 injectors. drove 10 mins on current base tune to my tuner. Tuned the car that day for 26 psi. I broke in my car on the dyno.

car made 508hp.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Oh, hey. I'm glad you got your car running. Nice numbers. Are you on pump?

 

[95eclipser]

Oh, hey. I'm glad you got your car running. Nice numbers. Are you on pump?

YES SIR!!!! and thanks man, car started to misfire at any higher boost level so i called it for the day.

Drew

 

[laserspeeddemon]

That is nice numbers for pump. Those are number I am hoping for, but I am worried about the size of my turbine housing limiting top end power. What is the size of yours?

 

[RT-AWD]

So it’s about time for me to start my engine for the first time. Honestly, I’m scared to death. I have rechecked and rechecked things over and over again. I’ve been told MANY, MANY times to break-in my motor using the motoman method, and believe me I want to, but there’s two problems:

Problem 1: How do I go hard on the throttle for a car that has no tune, no setup of any kind? I mean even my boost is not set yet, let alone the fuel/ignition maps. How does one get around this? According to motoman, if I don’t do it his way within the first few miles, I’m out of luck and my only option is to rebuild the motor again. Do I just take a untuned car ripping for the first 20 or so miles?

Problem 2: Motoman says use NON-Synthetic 10w-40 oil for the first 1500 miles. That’s actually a new one to me. I’ve always been told that a new motor using FULL Synthetic oil from the beginning has the best chance of survival. Also I’ve been told to use lower weights, like 5w-30 or even 0w-30. This is the exact opposite of what I know and/or been told. In fact, I just picked up 5w-30 FULL Synthetic oil.

Thoughts?

Use a stock (or very conservative) tune. Keep boost on the wastegate pressure (15psi). I went easy, max boost i let hit was 10 psi for the first 100 miles. After 100 miles, i did some aggressive driving. I used rotella oil 15w-40. About to change to synthetic after 1500 miles. i changed my oil/filter at 50 miles, 100 miles, 300 miles and 550 miles.

Everyone has their opinion on motor break-in. If everything is together correctly the motor will run. Some say go easy, some say beat the piss out of it. So i did the middle haha, some easy riding in the start and then some ripping. The "untuned ripping" could cause a blown motor, get a tune before you rip into it.

 

[YZFR1]

And explain to me why a pre-turbo leak would harm the motor other than dust debris getting in the motor.

Because you would be sucking in unmeasured air! Obviously, that would depend on the position of your maf, if you have one. I've had that happen before and didn't see anything odd on my log other than some knock.

Anyways, i was just giving you some suggestions

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Because you would be sucking in unmeasured air! Obviously, that would depend on the position of your maf, if you have one. I've had that happen before and didn't see anything odd on my log other than some knock.

Anyways, i was just giving you some suggestions

Ah, I see. I have a GM MAF in the upper intercooler piping so any leak before that would not effect the metering.

 

[white92talontsi]

Ah, I see. I have a GM MAF in the upper intercooler piping so any leak before that would not effect the metering.

We built our shop Evo last week. I drove the car to the track and did the break in on the way. Got there and changed the oil to the final 20-50 z-rod.

I did about 15 3rd gear pulls at 25psi and decels.

When I got too the track we had around 8 miles on the brand new motor.
We then proceeded to run a 10.4@138 With absolutely no traction at 43 pounds of boost.

The car did not use a single drop of oil in the 5 passes we put on the car.

The method works and works great. If something failed while you were using this method then something was not right from the get-go.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

We built our shop Evo last week. I drove the car to the track and did the break in on the way. Got there and changed the oil to the final 20-50 z-rod.

I did about 15 3rd gear pulls at 25psi and decels.

When I got too the track we had around 8 miles on the brand new motor.
We then proceeded to run a 10.4@138 With absolutely no traction at 43 pounds of boost.

The car did not use a single drop of oil in the 5 passes we put on the car.

The method works and works great. If something failed while you were using this method then something was not right from the get-go.

What Procedure did you use to install the lifters.

 

[white92talontsi]

What Procedure did you use to install the lifters.

All lifters were new, They were soaked in a can of oil overnight and then installed.

Car was ran long enough to check for leaks and get a base tune before the break in procedure.

 

[95eclipser]

That is nice numbers for pump. Those are number I am hoping for, but I am worried about the size of my turbine housing limiting top end power. What is the size of yours?

I am running a PTE-6262 with .82 ar

 

[rx7ttlm]

I been doing this crap a while. Use dyno 10-40 for race type engine, stock type use dyno 10-30. Pull timing, and don't run to lean or to rich. Don't lug motor, don't beat the shit out of it. Example, the last engine I built has 5% leak down and it has like 10k miles on it. How did I break it in? I kicked it's ass, but with less timing and moderate boost. (20 lbs instead of 30). Basically follow the AMS engine break in and you will be fine. Unlike rotaries (my previous engine money pit) these motors don't die instantly from detonation.

I have un####ed friends tunes that had audible detonation and the engines were fine after... Get something like DSM Link and use it, live it, feel it love it.

Keep in mind most of the time people blow up engines is with timing, they melt engines with nos and not enough fuel. (or overheat the damn thing)

 

[laserspeeddemon]

It was rod knock. Tomorrow night I'm going to drop the oil pan and see what's going on below.