The Feared 1.8L

[Boot92]

MOD EDIT: thread cliffnotes: Dude claims to have built up car and took it to the dyno. In reality, the car never got built and never went to the dyno. OP photoshoped a dyno chart and made up the entire story to go along with it. This is a hoax. When called out, OP stayed silent. If you decide to read past this point, just know that this is a fraudulent build/story and that you're wasting your time.




I don't know how many of you remember and I don't know how many of you care, but I was rebuilding a 4G63 to put into my 1G DSM, I ended up finding out that my 1.8L Block had been bored out and decided to resurrect it and get rid of the 4G63 for rebuild money.

My 4G37 Has the Over Sized Works. It been bored 0.020 Over, its not alot but its potential, found this out by when I opened up my bottom end pulled the pistons out and realized they were practically brand new. I later on called the previous owner about this he didn't know anything about it, and gave me the number of the dude he bought it from.

He told me he had some machining done to the car when he rebuilt the bottom end at 185k miles and increased the bore.

So now I'm in this huge rebuilding this motor from the bottom end up.

Here's everything on my List that isn't Factory Spec (BOLD is I'm still waiting on the part or I don't have it yet. other wise stock for now)

*Bore 0.020 W\ The Works (not alot but it helps)
*Reground 272\260 Cam
*2.0L 4G63 Shaved Cam Gear
*4G37 Ported TB w\ Coolant Bypass
*Custom Intake Manifold (*ITB's later on in the future maybe)
*Gutted MAF
*Open Air Can Mod w\ High Flow Air Filter
*Intake Hard Pipe
*High Flow Cat
*Custom Headers
*2 1\2 Inch Exhaust System (Cat Back) (Custom Made with Big Name muffler haven't picked one yet)
*Ported Head (Maybe **Cyclone 12 Valve Swap In the Future)
*7K Redline
*Premium Rings + Bearings
*NGK Premium Plugs
*NGK Plug Wires
*Oil Catch Can
*A\C and Burden Pulley Elimination
*Stage 2 4G63 N\A Clutch
*Custom Lightweight Flywheel
*Maybe a Stand Alone ECU for the ITB's
*Custom Head Gasket
*Balance Shaft Elimination
*EGR Valve Elimination


The Great things about 1.8L 4G37 Motors is the Bottom End is practically a Tank, they can withstand tons amounts of abuse unless it is under HIGH Compression or Forced Induction, Along with the fact that The Stock 4G37 (8 Valve SOHC) and\or Cyclone (12 Valve SOHC) Valve train is made of Same Material as a 4G63T and can with Stand a 7k Redline stock these 1.8L motors are still in there Power Band at the stock Redline which is 6K.

I'm About Half way done with it I'm just now putting the motor back together, I hope to have it at least running with in 1-3 Weeks from now.

 

[El Cuervo]

You better think twice about getting a rotary car. They are a real pain to work on. Nobody will touch them, unless you have a shop that specializes in them. My bro has an 88 fc turbo II 10th anniversary edition. Very rare car to find. For its year, its in great condition. Everything is stock exept for the exaust that we had to change because it had some rust in it and was leaking. Nice car but its a bi*** to work on. Tons of vacume hoses, sensors and the engine bay gets pretty hot. Not oly that but it very space limited. Really! It makes working on my talon a real breeze. We are still thinking on weather to sell it or not. We have a bunch of new parts still in box just waiting to be installed. From intercooler, to gauges, coilovers, koyo radiator, walbro 255, filters, hoses.... just to name a few. We haven't install them because again, we might sell the car and I believe that someone might prefer the car stock. So if we do sell it, all of the parts are going with the car.
What I'm trying to say here is that, if you are going to buy another car, make sure there is tons of support for it. In case you can't work on it for some reason and you need to take it in to a shop, there will be someone that will work on it.

Don't let insurance be your ONLY and absolute reason as to why you choose the 1.8 platform instead of the 4g63.

 

[DSM1G90]

Yea, those rotor tip seals can do nasty things when they go. Rotaries are terrible in gas, have mediocre take off since there is no vertical piston travel to convert into rotational torque until they get up their in RPM's and the right gear ratios.

It was a nice idea to have a motor with less moving parts, but it just never caught on due to the problems they can gather down the road..

-DSM

 

[Boot92]

I've worked on Rotary's both Turbo and Non, Carbonated and Fuel Injected. I've Rebuilt A rotary motor it was a 12A but it's still a Rotary, and it still runs like a dream after 100k miles (total of 320K Miles on motor)Injected, and And I've worked on my share of old carbed Honda's. Old Imports (Mid\Early 80's to 1960's) happens to be my area of expertise, not to mention some of my favorite cars.

I Know how "Hard" working on rotary's and carburetor engines is, even tho to me, its not that hard, just becuase that's what I know how to work on well.

For Example, doing my first head gasket way back when...was hard....now, I don't even really consider it a Major job anymore since I've done it so many times.

working on a car is only hard if you don't know what your doing. know what your doing, and have all the right tools, and its a piece of cake.

and you can get just as much power if not more out of a Carburated motor, as you can out of a Fuel Injected motor. people just think its hard becuase unlike fuel injected cars, you cant plug in a computer and tune it that way therefore its hard to some people. Personally I think Carbs are easier to tune, not to mention cheaper.


I've driven 2 Different rotary Motors.

a 2 Rotor N\A Carb (12A) in a 1981 Mazda RX-7 FB 120hp, and a 3 Rotor Twin Turbo Fuel Injected (13BTT) 1994 Mazda RX-7 FD 255hp

Both were pretty quick. yes not as quick in low RPM's but so what. idk about you but when I'm trying to accelerate faster, I usually am in a High RPM Range. and Gas Mileage Doesn't phase me. I've gone through 3 Tanks of gas in just cruising around town, and it didn't bother me one bit.

 

[1990AWD]

I've worked on Rotary's both Turbo and Non, Carbonated and Fuel Injected. I've Rebuilt A rotary motor it was a 12A but it's still a Rotary, and it still runs like a dream after 100k miles (total of 320K Miles on motor)Injected, and And I've worked on my share of old carbed Honda's. Old Imports (Mid\Early 80's to 1960's) happens to be my area of expertise, not to mention some of my favorite cars.

I Know how "Hard" working on rotary's and carburetor engines is, even tho to me, its not that hard, just becuase that's what I know how to work on well.

For Example, doing my first head gasket way back when...was hard....now, I don't even really consider it a Major job anymore since I've done it so many times.

working on a car is only hard if you don't know what your doing. know what your doing, and have all the right tools, and its a piece of cake.

and you can get just as much power if not more out of a Carburated motor, as you can out of a Fuel Injected motor. people just think its hard becuase unlike fuel injected cars, you cant plug in a computer and tune it that way therefore its hard to some people. Personally I think Carbs are easier to tune, not to mention cheaper.


I've driven 2 Different rotary Motors.

a 2 Rotor N\A Carb (12A) in a 1981 Mazda RX-7 FB 120hp, and a 3 Rotor Twin Turbo Fuel Injected (13BTT) 1994 Mazda RX-7 FD 255hp

Both were pretty quick. yes not as quick in low RPM's but so what. idk about you but when I'm trying to accelerate faster, I usually am in a High RPM Range. and Gas Mileage Doesn't phase me. I've gone through 3 Tanks of gas in just cruising around town, and it didn't bother me one bit.

+1 for FD's!!! they may not be practical, but they are a hell of a lot of fun. I had a '88 n/a RX-7 and it was a blast. my friend had a buddy who had a 1st gen. RX-7 and it went all the way to 17K rpm completely stock!

oh, and they will out handle a DSM like nobody's business. Like you said about not being able to go fast on public roads, at least you'll be able to corner as fast as you can!

 

[Boot92]

Indeed +1

 

[wht 92 talon]

Im not hating on the 1.8 or anything im just sayin its gonna be harder to put down big numbers on it. I just use mine to drive to school and save the e85 machine for "spirited driving" . The cam gear makes sense to get rid of some rotational mass.

Dont the different cam gears have a slightly different tooth spacing? When I compared my 2.0 belt to the 1.8, it looked like the 1.8 teeth were slightly wider and shorter.

HAHA DUDE ## 1.8 DAILY IS MY OLD CAR

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^What does this mean? Who cares? My 4g63 n/t was my old daily driver. Why interject with 'all caps' on? Contribute or just read.

 

[bastarddsm]

Well, when you get very Familiar with the 4G37, it will almost seem like to you that it was purposly made slow.



You can make 100+ WHP with Basic Free mods on the 1.8L

I would not be surprised if I get everything on that list if my 1.8L pushes 180whp.

Don't want to burst your bubble, but its not gonna happen. I seriously doubt 120whp with lots of money spent.

 

[Boot92]

And that's what they said about the light bulb, Airplanes, and landing on the moon.


Nuff said.

 

[LandoAWD]

And that's what they said about the light bulb, Airplanes, and landing on the moon.


Nuff said.

Engineers and brilliant men made these happen. You're reinventing the effin wheel.

Any more bench racing (if it can be called that) and I'll lock this up.

Thanks.

 

[Sp1kE]

So this thread has been going for 9-10 days and the only picture in it is of a honda engine bay!
Wheres the progress!!???

 

[black_gst]

just finished reading this thread and now ive wasted 15 mintues of my life that i cant get back...
on a more serious note... .020 over is about 5 pieces of paper thick which may make your 1.8 into a 1.81 which doesnt do anything...

if you really want to do this build for you, then power to you bro because its something you want to do! but you have this whole thread dressed up to be the big performance build from the start..

if you want big power out of a 1.8 then honda is the way to go no contest.. we all dog Vtec, but on a N/A motor vtec is a beast ive seen 1.8 vtec's take on big v8's just like most of us do.. but even the new vette Z06 motors dont even make 100hp per liter.. we have 2.0's and 200hp per liter is easy with a 20g/50trim and a few supporting mods... and shoot we even get our MPG .. i was getting about 28mpg on my gst with ecmlink and a 20g on a built 6bolt...

good luck

 

[Boot92]

Here's an Update of what I got going down. Alot more pics and Details on 1.8L Forums becuase more of them share in interest in this project.

Cylinder Head:

*Shaved 10 off
*Ported
*2.0L Cam Gear
*Custom Valves
*Custom Titanium Valve Springs
*260-280\260-280 Cam

Block (rebuilt)
Bored .020 Over
Premium .020 Over Rings
Premium Bearings
9.5:1 Pistons
Custom Light Weight Flywheel
Stock Crank
Accessory Pulley Removal

Intake
*Ported TB
*Custom made Aluminum Intake Manifold
*GM MAF
*Cold Air Intake

Exhaust System
*Custom Headers (Primary Pipe Inside Diameter-1.18" Primary Pipe Length-38.3" Collector Inside Diameter-1.77" Collector Length-13.7" made 304 Stainless Steel)
*2.5Inch Exhaust Piping
*No Cat
*HKS Universal Stainless Muffler

Drivetrain
*Exedy Stage 2 Clutch

Electronics + Ignition
*NGK Spark Plugs
*NGK Spark Plug Wires
*AFR Controller

Rebuilt this cylinder head, This one is gonna stay stock other then minor porting,
2.0 Cam Gear, becuase my built one is on the way.

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Block is Ready to go.

Completely Rebuilt.

Pistons not in yet becuase Rings + Rod Bearings are on a UPS Truck somewhere and should be here by the end of the week.

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There is a Cross pattern there like there is suppose to be but i couldn't get a picture that showed it good so sorry about that..


thats all I'm posting for now as far as pics go till this weekend.

 

[goodhart]

If I were you I would ditch the built head. A lot of us turbo guys leave the heads untouched until we are making big power because they already flow good enough. Hell, a friend of mine went to a 1g head over the summer (1g's have bigger ports than 2g's) while doing a head gasket, got it re-tuned for the hell of it and LOST power. Nothing else changed with the car, and it wasnt likely that weather changes, etc had any effect on the dyno, it lost around 15whp.

The loss in power is most likely from a loss of velocity in the cylinder head.

I would also re-think the 2.0 cam gears, some after market ones (if they make them) would suit you much better after degreeing in the cams I would think.

 

[Boot92]

ok well im not going turbo, nor am i 2.0L.

so you wasted your time for nothing.

 

[goodhart]

ok well im not going turbo, nor am i 2.0L.

No, but the same rule applies. I was trying to help because I thought your build was unique but whatever dude.

so you wasted your time for nothing.

Rethink what you just said, who is really wasting their time here?

 

[Boot92]

not me, becuase I'm getting something out of this.

This is what I do, this is what I enjoy. This is what Defines who I am.

the whole reason the 2.0L Cane Gear is a mod is becuase it is lighter then the 1.8L Cam Gear.
I really dont think theres a point to me spending 200$ on a Aftermarket cam gear that weighs about the same. if not more.

 

[goodhart]

I gaurantee the aftermarket cam gear will not weigh more since most of them are aluminum vs. EOM steel ones. Also you cannot degree in cams with OEM gears, you can with aftermarket ones. If you are trying to sqeeze every last ounce of power out of that 1.8l then why the hell not try?

If you don't want to hear any feedback on this thread why the hell did you make it? I came on here to try to give you helpful advice, yet you reject it.

 

[dsm-onster]

The loss in power is most likely from a loss of velocity in the cylinder head.

Loss of velocity was NOT why. Smaller holes make higher speeds because less flow gets into it. It's the law of conservation of momentum. P (momentum) = M (massflow) X V. V goes up because less flow traveled throught the tunnel. . . And you can't prove that velocity was the reason why the 2ghead did better . An increase in velocity is only a side effect of the 2g head. but that's another debate. I agree the 2g head may do better and provide more flow. But not because of velocities. . .

I agree whole heartedly that it seams the OP is just posting to post and isn't looking for advice. He seams to think he has it all figured out. So let's let him show us what he's figured. I'm not taking one side or the other but who doesn't want advice, especially with a build that usually doesn't deliver even the antisipated results. . .

. . .A build thread should be made into a build blog. Ludacris is leaning towards building a build catagory in your blog. Have a catagory setup for your build and do various blogs updating your build... Pretty simple and effective. And eliminates the clutter in your build info AND in the threads.

 

[poorvette1]

I would like a full list of your investment. I have a 1.8 laser (loser its called) Just sitting in the yard in mint running cnd. Dont drive it because i have a 2.0 and 2.0T that are my toys. I would like to find something for my poor 1.8, and a hot rod pony killer would be great!

 

[lacroixdp]

you can get just as much power if not more out of a Carburated motor, as you can out of a Fuel Injected motor. people just think its hard becuase unlike fuel injected cars, you cant plug in a computer and tune it that way therefore its hard to some people. Personally I think Carbs are easier to tune, not to mention cheaper.

If you honestly believe this statement is true, then you don't understand the basics of automotive engineering, much less the intricacies required for a project such as this. If you wholeheartedly believe that a carburetor can out-perform a precision instrument that can precisely meter fuel into each cylinder and at the same time maintain an optimum air/fuel ratio in 100rpm (sometimes even tighter) intervals, then I'd recommend that you read up on fuel injection tuning because someone clearly told you wrong. Best of luck to you man.

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^ In a nutshell, even the big carbureted guys look at fuel injection as an upgrade. . .

 

[Boot92]

Heres the List of my investment
Some of this is still pending.


THIS IS EVERYTHING I PLAN TO DO TO MY BABY BETWEEN NOW AND FOREVER DISCLUDING THE 4G63T RWD CONVERSION


Engine
*1.8L 4G37


Cylinder Head:
*Fel Pro Cylinder Head Rebuild Kit
*Titanium Valve Springs
*Ported Head
*Shaved 10 off
*Custom Valves
*2.0L Cam Gear
*260-280\260-280 Cam

Block
*Stock Crank
*New Oil Pump
*New Water Pump
*Balance Shaft Elimination
*All New Seals + Gaskets
*Premium Rod + Main Bearings
*High Performance Over Sized Piston Rings 0.020 Over
*9.5:1 High Compression Pistons Over Sized 0.020
*Stock Rods
*Bored 0.020 Over
*Custom Made Light Weight Flywheel (Made from Stock 4G37 Flywheel)
*Removed Accessory Pulley + No A\C
*Oil Catch Can

Intake and Exhaust
*Custom Made Intake Manifold w\ Ported TB
*Gutted MAF
*Open Air Can Mod
*K&N Air Filter
*Intake Hard Pipe
*Custom Made Exhaust Manifold
*Custom Made Exhaust 2.5Inch
*No Cat
*HKS Universal Stainless Steel Muffler.

Ignition + Electronics + Other
*NGK Spark Premium Plugs
*NGK Spark Plug Wires
*Rebuilt Dizzy w\ Secret Ingredient.
*AFR Controller
*AFR Gauge
*Voltage Gauge
*Aeromotive AFPR
*Walbro 190 LPH Fuel Pump
*4G63 N\A Injectors
*Stage 2 Clutch
*Stock ECU

Suspension (nothing too Crazy)
*Megen Strut Bars
*KYB GR2 Shocks
*Eibach lowering Springs 1.5" Front, 1.4" Back
*Energy Suspension Polyurethane Bushing Kit(s)
*Suspension Tech. Front + Rear Sway Bar.

Braking
*Brembo Cross Drilled Rotors (Front)
*Brembo Slotted Rotors (Rear)
*EBC Intermediate Brake Pads

Will be running on 91 Octane or higher...There are Gas Stations in the Nashville TN area that sell 100 Octane Gas...its like 6-8$ a gallon but I think I may grab some on Dyno Day.

 

[poorvette1]

Thanks I may do more or less but i for sure record and keep it blogd I work 2nd shift 4-10s so all i have is time


I have a OMNI GLHS i just finnished looking to get it to the track soon so this would be a nice transition

 

[thebgkoolio]

Can't wait to see how this turns out. I am about to do pretty much the same thing as you Boot92.