The 16g Drag Race Discussion Thread

[SBstar]

I 'd when I read 10.8...seriously Nate?!?! That's all you're going to post, you have a freaking Iphone

 

[Nate Crisman]

OKOK...I got sloppy doing copy/paste from email into txt and tappatalk. sue me.

Seriously, Im in the process of writing up a full track report that I can post on all the forums..it' will be full of good info. would have done it last night, but I seriously was exhausted and fell asleep with laptop on couch.

 

[Phil1320]

Congrats Nate! Another 16g in the 10's Are you home yet? You said full report when you get home!

 

[Nate Crisman]

Ok, here we go with track report for 9/10/10.

13.797 @ 108.27 1.919 - shakedown run to see if new trans will shift.

• MBC was set too high...spiked to 34.7, which I think is the AEM 3.5bar limit.
• Boost falls to 21psi by 7000rpm
• 42* AIT at the line, 88* at trap
• The car is bucking all through first gear...rev limiter type.
• New "mystery box" trans is a little crunchy & I botch the 2-3 shift.
• DSMlink showing 369hp @5700rpm falling to about 325 at 7000rpm
• (HP calculations based on 2800lb total weight with driver)

12.959 @ 115.39 1.846

• Same rev limiter issue in first gear - basicly it never leaves the 2step.
• Turned the MBC down one turn: Spike to 32psi falling to 22psi.
• 58*F on line 79* at top 2nd, 90* top of 3rd, 100* at trap.
• Boost spike lasts for about 400rpm and .4seconds before settling down to about 26psi
• A/F tuning is still fat: 10.8 to 11.3 on gas scale
• Trans goes into every gear decently, I NLTS 3-4. ok...now I can get down to business.

11.597 @ 119.61 1.637 - First clean run with all 4 gears working. Still very easy slip launch.

• someone oiled the track down...huge line in lanes. Car was HOT!
• Coolant temp was 220* on line. AIT was 82* to 133* Ice was gone from IC tank before the run.
• Timing ramping from 12* to 17*
• Fixed first gear rev limit issue: clutch switch looked to be "bouncing" so I shut of NLTS.

11.228 @ 127.17 1.710 - turned on NOS single fogger nitrous kit.

• Spray is jetted .037/.022 - std gasoline jets for 50hp shot. Bottle press was 700psi.
• Nitrous set via DSMlink to activate at 45mph, with 7000rpm and 3.0load cut. Spray was on/off/on/off a few times due to limits
• AIT: 55*F to 111*F - one bag of ice.
• DSMlink showing about 435hp @ 600rpm in 3rd
• Boost curve seems to be unchanged with nitrous on
• A/F is still very rich: 10.8 to 11.4AF (even with nitrous system jetted for gasoline no ethanol!)

10.800 @ 129.84 1.594 ( 4.581 330' - 6.985 @ 100.43 1/8 - 9.055 1k')

• Added 2 bags of ice to IC. 48*F line - 101*F trap
• Turned mph activation down to 30mph. nitrous kicks on in 1st gear, but still is shutting off during boost spike and top of each gear over 7k rpm.
• Added about 1* timing overall. A/F still fat.
• Bottle pressure down to 650psi
• Launched at 5000rpm at about 14psi. decent but nothing spectacular.
• lifted all gear changes, but the trans seems to be shifting decent now.

My next move was to up the load and rev limits for the nitrous to 7700 and 3.5load so that it stays on for the whole gear. I'd say on the last run the nitrous was off for over a second of WOT time due to the boost/rpm limits being set too conservative. I had also added another 2* of timing, took out 4* fuel, and raised the main rev limit to 8000 and upped the 2step to 5500rpm in hopes of cracking 130+ and a mid 10. Unfortunately, another car oiled down the track at 9:45 and they just closed for the night, so I never got to make the last run with these changes.

Next time out:

• Bottle heater will be hooked up: 30% more nitrous power
• Up the jetting in the nitrous kit to 75 or 100hp shot for a bug jump in mph.
• Weld the center diff & actually try to get a good 60' next time.
• figure out clutch switch so I can NLTS all gears
• change theremostat and maybe add a fan to help staging lane temps.
• Hopefully see 135 to 140mph and a low 10.

So I'm pretty happy with a 10 second slip this early in the testing phase. I think the car should likely be able to go a real low 11 without the nitrous, but Im not really going to bother with that. I had always envisioned the car as a nitrous setup and once it ran clean for a single pass without it (the 11.5 @ 119), I went directly into figuring out the nitrous.

 

[habitatguy187]

Schweeet.

 

[streetdsmpwr]

Nice runs. Congrats on 10's.

 

[TSimage]

So Nate, how are you thinking your goals are going? What more do you plan to implement I know you are doin great but are pretty far off of your own personal goals.

Any plans to go for the 14b records you originally set out to do or was that idea scrapped?

 

[schroder]

In the next few months you guys will have another e316g on board My project truck is swapping from the borg warner set up to an e316g for a list of reasons I dont feel like getting into. RWD and a TH350 auto trans should make it fun. Plus the 3800 stall converter should be fun off of the line.

 

[Phil1320]

Ok, here we go with track report for 9/10/10.

13.797 @ 108.27 1.919 - shakedown run to see if new trans will shift.

• MBC was set too high...spiked to 34.7, which I think is the AEM 3.5bar limit.
• Boost falls to 21psi by 7000rpm
• 42* AIT at the line, 88* at trap
• The car is bucking all through first gear...rev limiter type.
• New "mystery box" trans is a little crunchy & I botch the 2-3 shift.
• DSMlink showing 369hp @5700rpm falling to about 325 at 7000rpm
• (HP calculations based on 2800lb total weight with driver)

12.959 @ 115.39 1.846

• Same rev limiter issue in first gear - basicly it never leaves the 2step.
• Turned the MBC down one turn: Spike to 32psi falling to 22psi.
• 58*F on line 79* at top 2nd, 90* top of 3rd, 100* at trap.
• Boost spike lasts for about 400rpm and .4seconds before settling down to about 26psi
• A/F tuning is still fat: 10.8 to 11.3 on gas scale
• Trans goes into every gear decently, I NLTS 3-4. ok...now I can get down to business.

11.597 @ 119.61 1.637 - First clean run with all 4 gears working. Still very easy slip launch.

• someone oiled the track down...huge line in lanes. Car was HOT!
• Coolant temp was 220* on line. AIT was 82* to 133* Ice was gone from IC tank before the run.
• Timing ramping from 12* to 17*
• Fixed first gear rev limit issue: clutch switch looked to be "bouncing" so I shut of NLTS.

11.228 @ 127.17 1.710 - turned on NOS single fogger nitrous kit.

• Spray is jetted .037/.022 - std gasoline jets for 50hp shot. Bottle press was 700psi.
• Nitrous set via DSMlink to activate at 45mph, with 7000rpm and 3.0load cut. Spray was on/off/on/off a few times due to limits
• AIT: 55*F to 111*F - one bag of ice.
• DSMlink showing about 435hp @ 600rpm in 3rd
• Boost curve seems to be unchanged with nitrous on
• A/F is still very rich: 10.8 to 11.4AF (even with nitrous system jetted for gasoline no ethanol!)

10.800 @ 129.84 1.594 ( 4.581 330' - 6.985 @ 100.43 1/8 - 9.055 1k')

• Added 2 bags of ice to IC. 48*F line - 101*F trap
• Turned mph activation down to 30mph. nitrous kicks on in 1st gear, but still is shutting off during boost spike and top of each gear over 7k rpm.
• Added about 1* timing overall. A/F still fat.
• Bottle pressure down to 650psi
• Launched at 5000rpm at about 14psi. decent but nothing spectacular.
• lifted all gear changes, but the trans seems to be shifting decent now.

My next move was to up the load and rev limits for the nitrous to 7700 and 3.5load so that it stays on for the whole gear. I'd say on the last run the nitrous was off for over a second of WOT time due to the boost/rpm limits being set too conservative. I had also added another 2* of timing, took out 4* fuel, and raised the main rev limit to 8000 and upped the 2step to 5500rpm in hopes of cracking 130+ and a mid 10. Unfortunately, another car oiled down the track at 9:45 and they just closed for the night, so I never got to make the last run with these changes.

Next time out:

• Bottle heater will be hooked up: 30% more nitrous power
• Up the jetting in the nitrous kit to 75 or 100hp shot for a bug jump in mph.
• Weld the center diff & actually try to get a good 60' next time.
• figure out clutch switch so I can NLTS all gears
• change theremostat and maybe add a fan to help staging lane temps.
• Hopefully see 135 to 140mph and a low 10.

So I'm pretty happy with a 10 second slip this early in the testing phase. I think the car should likely be able to go a real low 11 without the nitrous, but Im not really going to bother with that. I had always envisioned the car as a nitrous setup and once it ran clean for a single pass without it (the 11.5 @ 119), I went directly into figuring out the nitrous.

Congrats again. Was really hoping that 10.8 was all turbo though......

 

[Nate Crisman]

Phil: honestly, Im not planning to make any more passes "all turbo" at all. From here out, my goal is to see a 9.999 and the only route to that is going to be heavily reliant on the bottle. Next time out at the track, my plan is to run between double and triple the amount of nitrous. On a 100+shot, I don't think 140mph is out of the question.

It will be kinda funny if by the end of the season this car actually only mades one single mediocre pass without nitrous and that pass was actually pretty weak all together (on tune/conditions/driving).


Cross your fingers for stock shortblock & stock trans!

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Cheater juice is for ####y's, Nate, and honestly, most people don't respect times as much as when it is not being used. E85 evoIII 16g cars are going in the upper 120's with more weight than your racecar on boost alone. Get a good manifold(intake and exhaust) on that ####er and tune the snot out of it.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Cheater juice is for ####y's, Nate, and honestly, most people don't respect times as much as when it is not being used. E85 evoIII 16g cars are going in the upper 120's with more weight than your racecar on boost alone. Get a good manifold(intake and exhaust) on that ####er and tune the snot out of it.

I respectfully disagree. I didn't build the car to make everyone else happy, I built the car to go as fast as I can on the budget I have. (just like I'v built every other car). I'd rather try to run a 9 with nitrous. And I'd like to take the 16g record away from Bucci (which is also a nitrous car)

I went 119 on a wimpy launch, on the FIRST PASS without a mechanical issue with the tune barely "ballpark" and the engine and intercooler stupid hot. I have no doubt in my mind I could get this car to run nearly 130 on the motor alone once it's tuned, setup, and driven to potential. But I have pretty much no interest in doing so until I see a 9 with the bottle.

 

[MoparDSM]

Congrats on the run, Nate! Sounds like you are having fun with it!

Hopefully I'll be able to finish my absurdedly slow build over the winter and run some decent times with the e316g to post in here

 

[Phil1320]

Phil: honestly, Im not planning to make any more passes "all turbo" at all. From here out, my goal is to see a 9.999 and the only route to that is going to be heavily reliant on the bottle. Next time out at the track, my plan is to run between double and triple the amount of nitrous. On a 100+shot, I don't think 140mph is out of the question.

It will be kinda funny if by the end of the season this car actually only mades one single mediocre pass without nitrous and that pass was actually pretty weak all together (on tune/conditions/driving).


Cross your fingers for stock shortblock & stock trans!

Ok so 9.99 is the goal, fair enough, and budget minded, without a doubt NOS is the way to go. I'm sure you'll hit that goal and might be able to edge Joe B. Good luck and hope you get back out this season.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

I respectfully disagree. I didn't build the car to make everyone else happy, I built the car to go as fast as I can on the budget I have. (just like I'v built every other car). I'd rather try to run a 9 with nitrous. And I'd like to take the 16g record away from Bucci (which is also a nitrous car)

I went 119 on a wimpy launch, on the FIRST PASS without a mechanical issue with the tune barely "ballpark" and the engine and intercooler stupid hot. I have no doubt in my mind I could get this car to run nearly 130 on the motor alone once it's tuned, setup, and driven to potential. But I have pretty much no interest in doing so until I see a 9 with the bottle.

Just trying to motivate you, dude.

A 9.99 would be stout, without a doubt.

 

[FonZ454]

I'm pretty much against bottles too, but that's moving DAMN well for the first time out with the setup.

Good job nate

 

[Nate Crisman]

Well, Im sure there will come a time when the bottle pressure is just too low and Ill be forced to shut it off and run the car on boost alone

Im itching to get to Etown where there is a scale so I can get a real # for weight. The complete weight should be somewhere between 2700 and 2800. Of course, I'd love to see 200lb come off that # over this winter. (money and effort dependent)

 

[Phil1320]

Well, Im sure there will come a time when the bottle pressure is just too low and Ill be forced to shut it off and run the car on boost alone

Im itching to get to Etown where there is a scale so I can get a real # for weight. The complete weight should be somewhere between 2700 and 2800. Of course, I'd love to see 200lb come off that # over this winter. (money and effort dependent)

Nate--I don't think any of us are here to persuade you either way, but I will only speak for myself. I think whatever path you want to take is great. You're out there, and you're getting some solid results this year with different cars and set ups. It's been damn impressive. So, keep on, and the only other thing I want to say is that with the 11.59@119 off the bottle, with like you said a mediocre tune at best, why wouldn't you want to go for a solid NO NOS run too. 11.59@119 is a strong run no matter what. I mean, first time out no less. I'd just like to see it as well, that's all. So, yes, if the bottle runs out, please make a couple passes No persuation here.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get a maximum potential "off bottle" run too this year. But just like you, my track time is limited by family/work/money/weather/circumstance. I can see light at the end of the nitrous tunnel and to me, the overall 9 second 16g record is a brighter light than a mid/high 10 without nitrous. And realistically I'll be lucky to see the dragstrip 3 more times this year. I'd hate to use any of those 10-15 runs doing anything less than max effort to the goal.

Basically, if I'm forced to run without nitrous for some reason, I'll do so. But I'm not going to shut the nitrous off just to see, because the one time I do that will likely be the one run the car leaves on a magic 1.399 launch and I'll regret it forever.

 

[FonZ454]

I think I'm gonna go again wednesday, with my slicks at my disposal.

After doing some number crunching;

Last week the car was falling on it's face in 3rd and forth.

The car went high 97s-to 98 MPH in the eighth. Best mph so far. 122 up top. 24 mph in the backhalf. Obviously falling on its face.

In Ohio, the car was going mid 96's to mid 127s. so figure 30-31 up top.

Comparing to when I went from streets to slicks on my first time out, the slicks where good for around 1mph in both the 1/8th and quarter. that day it was going 95-96 on the streets, mid 97;s on the slicks all day. that day was around 27-28 up top.

Figure first pass or 2 will be on streets to see if the traps there. If all is well I'll toss the slicks on.

Warmer plugs seemed to fix it. I'm going to mess with it a little bit more, but this looks like the car could do right around 129-130 assuming the car picks up 30mph up top again... and 30* colder intake temps may help out a little bit too. I'm kind of excited , but this assumes the car is still happy. It did feel VERY strong on the street tonight. drifting to the side in 1st and 2nd gear is really fun.

 

[Phil1320]

I think I'm gonna go again wednesday, with my slicks at my disposal.

After doing some number crunching;

Last week the car was falling on it's face in 3rd and forth.

The car went high 97s-to 98 MPH in the eighth. Best mph so far. 122 up top. 24 mph in the backhalf. Obviously falling on its face.

In Ohio, the car was going mid 96's to mid 127s. so figure 30-31 up top.

Comparing to when I went from streets to slicks on my first time out, the slicks where good for around 1mph in both the 1/8th and quarter. that day it was going 95-96 on the streets, mid 97;s on the slicks all day. that day was around 27-28 up top.

Figure first pass or 2 will be on streets to see if the traps there. If all is well I'll toss the slicks on.

Warmer plugs seemed to fix it. I'm going to mess with it a little bit more, but this looks like the car could do right around 129-130 assuming the car picks up 30mph up top again... and 30* colder intake temps may help out a little bit too. I'm kind of excited , but this assumes the car is still happy. It did feel VERY strong on the street tonight. drifting to the side in 1st and 2nd gear is really fun.

Damn, hopefully all that has to do with the temps and the tires. Well, good luck on Wed. night. Run the 10.9X and you only have to deal with a little more of my excitement!

 

[rhamlinii]

Cheater juice is for ####y's, Nate, and honestly, most people don't respect times as much as when it is not being used. E85 evoIII 16g cars are going in the upper 120's with more weight than your racecar on boost alone. Get a good manifold(intake and exhaust) on that ####er and tune the snot out of it.

With 965 tech post, this is the dumbest thing you've ever POSTED on this site. I'm not going to flame you, argue, or disrepect you. My opinion is just that and you have yours. I believe "Fast is Fast". If he was able to break into the 9's with that a 16g turbo it's just as impressive as Curt's 10.30s@ 137. If it was that easy everyone would be doing it. It takes alot to make a nitrous car work. I wouldn't mine trying to shoot for the same goal and puttinf my current setup on hold. To date less then 10 have put 16g into the 10s. With or without spray. I have 1/8 mile times, but no 1/4 mile times to compare wih everyone 16g times.

phil: Honestly, im not planning to make any more passes "all turbo" at all. From here out, my goal is to see a 9.999 and the only route to that is going to be heavily reliant on the bottle. Next time out at the track, my plan is to run between double and triple the amount of nitrous. On a 100+shot, i don't think 140mph is out of the question.

It will be kinda funny if by the end of the season this car actually only mades one single mediocre pass without nitrous and that pass was actually pretty weak all together (on tune/conditions/driving).


Cross your fingers for stock shortblock & stock trans!

go for the number 9.999

 

[Devilman]

im that guy from shootout that ran the 10.9s...
sorry for just now seeing this threat

car is fully streetable
i normally drive a hour and a half each way to one of the two local tracks

would love to drive it to shootout and back one of these years but i keep getting a sweet deal from my boss with an enclosed trailer

also shootout was the first time out with my cars current setup, thats why i had a few crappy passes then finally got my head out of my butt and ran a good pass, 12.2@127- 10.97@129 haha

i have to say i was totally sleeping at the line in the semi final too

 

[pneumo]

I have a few updates on my 16G build.

I got a new EVO3 exhaust manifold delivered yesterday. Thanks to Matt from NJ for posting his eBay ad at the right time. I ported and polished it tonight. This replaces the old, unported and cracked ex. mani that was on the car. I should pick up a few HP here.

I'm converting the 16G to a downflow outlet. This will remove the 180* bend coming off the turbo and improve flow. Check out my thread: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/custom-fabrication/380121-downflow-outlet-16g.html

I'm going to do something with the wastegate to hold boost better. I have't decided yet, but I want something cheap and easy( like a true DSM'er)

I also picked up a set of true slicks! My BFG Drag Radials worked very well these past 2 seasons, but now I'm ready for the next level.

 

[SBstar]

im that guy from shootout that ran the 10.9s...
sorry for just now seeing this threat

car is fully streetable
i normally drive a hour and a half each way to one of the two local tracks

would love to drive it to shootout and back one of these years but i keep getting a sweet deal from my boss with an enclosed trailer

also shootout was the first time out with my cars current setup, thats why i had a few crappy passes then finally got my head out of my butt and ran a good pass, 12.2@127- 10.97@129 haha

i have to say i was totally sleeping at the line in the semi final too

Congrats again on those 10.9's! Super impressive! Is your mod list up to date, or do you mind sharing a bit about your "new setup"? Elite category getting into the 10's on the 16g! Have you set yourself any goals for the rest of this season or are you done until next year? We'll look forward to seeing you at the shootout again.