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The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

1SloEvo

10+ Year Contributor
1,068
21
Mar 7, 2010
Warner Robins, Georgia
^^^^DO IT!!! That would be cool to hear about! I would brag like crazy about that.
 

mtf-DSM

Proven Member
30
4
Dec 28, 2014
South Hill, Virginia
Roger that... I thought the ring lands were mechanically different, with the NT design being more prone to breaking than the turbos' ring lands... It's been a while, so I definitely could be wrong on that though... Great tuning advice there. Knock definitely is a 1G turbo killer, regardless if it's a NT converted, or factory Turbo 4g63...
I do have a question to bring us back on topic, though... @bastarddsm Have you considered changing your fpr? You seem well versed in this, so maybe I can learn something here as well. The NT fpr is a non-boost referenced regulator, correct? I know you have a burned chip, but wouldn't a turbos' fpr help you still?
 

bastarddsm

15+ Year Contributor
5,548
1,358
Aug 26, 2003
Mendota, Illinois
IIRC. the ring lands are of the same thickness, just placed higher up on the piston. The change isn't enough to make it unusable. The rods and crank are the same as turbo, as are the wrist pins - sorta. Some turbo's had really thick straight wall wrist pins, some had taper wall. The n/t has a slightly thinner straight wall wrist pin, I think it's close to the taper wall pin strength. I'm going off memories, as I havn't looked at this stuff in detail since I put the motor together and in the car back in 2010.

N/T get a bad rap because back in the day when everyone would try to use them we were on pump gas and AFC's. So it was hard to control timing, and with the 1.2 points of compression increase the n/t motors had a higher propensity for knock. Now in the days of E85 and real tuning methods, it's not a big deal.

As for the N/T regulator, it works the same as a turbo one, only the bfp is supposed to be 47 up from 37. It is still boost referenced and it rises 1:1 with boost. It's a neat little hack, as it makes the injectors seen about 10% bigger than they are. The only drawback is that it raises your fuel pressure and you can run into pump flow issues sooner.

Since I am running 450's I really need this as you run out of flow very very quick on E85. Back in 2008 or so when I first started with E85, I used this idea to run E85 with a stock ecu, 450's and nothing else. I tuned it with fuel pressure, hacking the maf, and some creative use of a wideband. My talon ran low 13's at 107 like that.
 

mtf-DSM

Proven Member
30
4
Dec 28, 2014
South Hill, Virginia
Wow!!! That is insanely awesome LOL. That just broadened my options for when I start to put things back together this winter... Thanks for that, and much respect and props to you, Sir. :hellyeah:
 

pimpy rider

10+ Year Contributor
230
30
Mar 27, 2009
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan_Canada
im excited to see what everybody else has/will do and even more so what i can do!
I struggled last year, couldnt get past 180hp (104 traps)
I think it was just a fuel supply issue, not sure. It was a non rewired 190, should easily support 250 hp or so even non rewired. Could never get to fuel cut tho.
Rewired 255 and i can hit fuel cut no problem now. Car is .3 sec faster on the 100-140 dash. (Poor mans tuning method).

I HAD a 2.3/20g in my car but it leaks oil from the front seal so i sold my turbo and im swapping in a stock 2.0/14b.

My car is2150ish lbs. was 2050 last year but its gained some, no idea how much. Id be very happy if i could get mid 12s with this thing.
I dont plan to ever challenge any records. For now i want to stay on the free parts budget
Car has no weight reduction and full interior
 

SBstar

Proven Member
3,038
120
Jan 1, 2004
Jackson, Michigan
Wow, a lot of time with no updates. But, I finally did it at the 25th Annual Shootout! 10.932 @ 123.12

Vid from Stands
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Vid from On-Car / Congrats
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Had some weird ups and downs over the weekend. Started out spinning so badly I thought my slicks were dried out completely. Finally figured out that my air gauge was reading about 10 psi lower than reality! Got the pressures down correctly and got the 60's down. Then I ran an 11.06 but saw 13.8:1 on the wideband gauge! Both the fuel filters and the pump were completely clogged, replaced one of the filters, replaced the external walbro 255 with another, and cleaned out the post pump filter really well. Fuel pressure jumped up 3 pounds at idle so I had to tune that back in.

Ran an 11.05 first pass on Sunday for qualifying (ran the 9.5 index just because I didn't fit anywhere else). Didn't even want to go up for the time trial but my wife and friends convinced me. Glad I did as I nailed the 10 FINALLY! I even short shifted the 1-2 at about 6k on that pass, but everything else felt perfect for once. I figured it was about an 11.1 again, but was amazed when I saw the 10 on the slip!!!

It's been so much work getting to this point. I spent some time frustrated and not even enjoying it there for a while at the end of 2015. It was good to take 2016 off and come back strong this year with the Shootout weekend.

Big thanks to the people in this thread, especially my man Phil Beers. He may be a grouchy bastard but that guy has given me more inspiration and advice than anyone, and even his turbo to use to do this!

For now I think it'll get one more track day in cooler weather just to try to replicate another 10.xxx pass and see if I can get the mph back to where it was (125ish). But, there is no pressure and after this I have no more goals for the 14b. I don't feel the need to chase down Joe's time to be #2. It would take another .05 to overtake him if you go by the 10.87 and nearly a full 10th if you use his 10.84 (nitrous on the car but not used). I honestly don't think the car has that in it even with better weather. This was as near a perfect pass as I'll get, the next pass was eliminations and I drove poorly to something like an 11.3 just to show the difference driving makes.

I have an Evo III 16g waiting to go on the car. But, I'm entertaining the idea of doing a track day with the fully stock 14b as well (no clipped exhaust wheel and the 6cm hotside). Just to see what a difference the 7cm and clipping makes and to put down a fully stock 14b time.
 

94TSiAWD

Proven Member
119
10
Jun 16, 2002
Palmetto, Florida
I finally did it at the 25th Annual Shootout! 10.932 @ 123.12 ... there is no pressure and after this I have no more goals for the 14b. I don't feel the need to chase down Joe's time to be #2. It would take another .05 to overtake him if you go by the 10.87 and nearly a full 10th if you use his 10.84 (nitrous on the car but not used).

I totally get wanting to move on to the bigger turbo. I've been there. It is VERY difficult to chop hundredths off your time when you're already squeezing every last drop out of your set-up. That said, I'd keep pushing it. I know you can beat my time, and I have little doubt that you could reach Justin's too. Be creative. Find weight. It will only help when you go to the 16g. Find power. I'm sure there are a few more horsies there somewhere.

Great job Shane. I'm really happy for you!
 

SBstar

Proven Member
3,038
120
Jan 1, 2004
Jackson, Michigan
I can't say I wouldn't ever go back to it Joe! But, the 14b is all I've ever ran. Pretty tired of pushing for those hundredths at this point. I'll do at least the one more track day that's all I can guarantee. For now, I'm fully basking in the satisfaction of having accomplished the goal!
 

94TSiAWD

Proven Member
119
10
Jun 16, 2002
Palmetto, Florida
I can't say I wouldn't ever go back to it Joe! But, the 14b is all I've ever ran. Pretty tired of pushing for those hundredths at this point. I'll do at least the one more track day that's all I can guarantee. For now, I'm fully basking in the satisfaction of having accomplished the goal!

I totally feel where you're coming from. I felt the SAME way. Later on, I felt like I should have pushed it more.

Either way, you DID accomplish your goal, and that kicks ass!
 

SBstar

Proven Member
3,038
120
Jan 1, 2004
Jackson, Michigan
I totally feel where you're coming from. I felt the SAME way. Later on, I felt like I should have pushed it more.

Either way, you DID accomplish your goal, and that kicks ass!

I'll try to learn from that and not go to crazy changing anything. That way if I feel like bolting it back on I have the ability to do it. I can't see myself doing much more than a motor build ever anyway, and that's only if this one gave up the ghost. I'm fine with the stock block. Pushing the 16g will be fun for a while. Can't see myself ever doing anything crazy beyond that. I'd like to go 9's eventually but that means some chassis changes that I'm not sure I'll ever be willing to make. Plus, you start breaking stuff with more power anyway.
 

1qkfwd

DSM Wiseman
1,822
108
Sep 16, 2005
Sun Valley, Nevada
Again Shane, Congrats on finally joining the 10 sec club. I knew it was there for you, was just a matter of time.

I know I felt like you did and moved up to the e316 then the HTA68. Now im totally wanting to go back to my 14b LOL. With all the data ive collected these little turbos like the smaller housings if they are setup right. Im not even sure that clipping my 14B at this point would be worth me sending it out. But it has crossed my mind.

I am preparing the car to get the 14B back out with a few changes that I think would help. plus the car is a tad lighter and I figured out that whole boost per gear thingy :)
 

SBstar

Proven Member
3,038
120
Jan 1, 2004
Jackson, Michigan
Kind of following your lead that way Justin! Figured if I try out the 16g and have some fun I can always come back to the little fellow with anything I learn along the way. I did pick up .1 between the outing without the unclipped wheel and when I put it on. But, I've picked up a whole lot more than .1 just with hitting the shift points better as well, or just having better air. So I'd say it's likely it helped, but not completely conclusive. That's why I'd like to try the untouched 14b in the 6cm housing. Hopefully I can get at least two track outings here in the near future. One as is with a better DA (as best I can tell it was around 2000' in Norwalk but I can't find accurate weather data), and another with the untouched 14b. Then it's 16g time if I can get a third outing!
 
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1qkfwd

DSM Wiseman
1,822
108
Sep 16, 2005
Sun Valley, Nevada
Now that I have a solid backpressure setup my data is getting better. One reason I wanna step back. Got a few things to try. I know the faceplated trans and boost per gear gave me big gains in the 1/8 on the 16g.

I ain't gonna lie, I miss the little guy LOL.

Well hopefully you get some decent track time and can get some stuff sorted out.
 

SBstar

Proven Member
3,038
120
Jan 1, 2004
Jackson, Michigan
Leon, it was good to finally meet you in person!

Scott, I think I freaked you out when I joked about turning your boost controller down so we had a chance against ya! Your car is so amazingly clean and it ran to match, good work sir!
 

pimpy rider

10+ Year Contributor
230
30
Mar 27, 2009
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan_Canada
Congratulations! I thought you gave up! That must have felt amazing! I thought i would go pretty fast with the 14b, with my 2450 race weight, NOPE 12.7 104 mph! A month later im running an fp green and 11.8 120mph Its so easy to just put on a bigger turbo! Dont know how you guys do it, but ill keep sitting back and watching!
 

1qkfwd

DSM Wiseman
1,822
108
Sep 16, 2005
Sun Valley, Nevada
Kind of following your lead that way Justin! Figured if I try out the 16g and have some fun I can always come back to the little fellow with anything I learn along the way. I did pick up .1 between the outing without the unclipped wheel and when I put it on. But, I've picked up a whole lot more than .1 just with hitting the shift points better as well, or just having better air. So I'd say it's likely it helped, but not completely conclusive. That's why I'd like to try the untouched 14b in the 6cm housing. Hopefully I can get at least two track outings here in the near future. One as is with a better DA (as best I can tell it was around 2000' in Norwalk but I can't find accurate weather data), and another with the untouched 14b. Then it's 16g time if I can get a third outing!

Hey have you got a recent weight on the car???
 

SBstar

Proven Member
3,038
120
Jan 1, 2004
Jackson, Michigan
Hey have you got a recent weight on the car???

No, I didn't go over the scale in Norwalk. But, not much has changed other than some weight I lost. I'm figuring it's about 2310ish. The side windows all remain glass right now, I could finally finish those for a bit more weight savings. The rest comes down to fabrication and money though. The steering column, tubular front, tubular k member or rear subframe, brakes. It's all stuff I'd like to do, but either I don't have the fabrication tools for or don't want to sink that kind of money into.
 

pimpy rider

10+ Year Contributor
230
30
Mar 27, 2009
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan_Canada
2310, with glass windows? Is that with you in it?
 
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