The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Phil1320]

Thought I'd add my time to this thread, I've been following it for a while.

My runs today
12.49 @ 110.5
12.68 @ 110.5 Spun tires bad
12.37 @ 110.3
12.34 @ 111.6
12.36 @ 111.2
12.27 @ 111.1 New best!
12.39 @ 110.8
12.34 @ 110.7

Most 60's were in the 1.7x Turbo was spiking to 24 psi and falling off. Had to richen the MAFT Translator as far as it would go and still had a little knock with 112 in the tank. DC were around 92%.

Car weight over 3000lbs with me in it. I've been fighting the urge to jump to the 16g...

This is a great batch of runs right here, congrats! Even on the run where you spun more than normal you still pulled a 12.6. I remember when 12.27 was the quickest 14b run of all time....that was some time ago. Trap speeds look strong for the weight you are quoting, so you must be making some nice power as well. Good stuff, and the consistency is impressive. You're only a couple ticks away from an 11 second pass....and it will take a bit to cover it, but, I'd like to see you go for it on the 14b of course


***** I also want to take a few minutes here to say that we have reached <<<1000>>> posts on this thread. It has taken less than one year to do. This is a first for the Drag Racing Forum on DSMTuners.com. That makes the 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread not only the most rapidly growing thread, but the most popular as well. The thread with the next highest amount of posts and action was posted almost a year before this one. As a matter of fact, there are only a few threads in all of DSMTuners that have had more than 1000 posts.

So, I want to say that I'm happy that there is so much interest in the turbo that started it all for DSM's back in 1990(1989.) I'm amazed at the things that have been done with the 14B. I'm glad there are still people out there, like the gentleman above, still running these turbos and extracting what I think is outstanding performance even when compared to the relative sport compact cars of today.

I don't know exactly what intrigues everyone else about the 14b, but we all have some type of similarity I'm sure. Could be just the challenge alone. Knowing that you've got to go to some extreme measures on many fronts in order to maximize it's potential is obviously one point. I'll go ahead and mention that seeing Marc Hallman's article in Turbo & Hi-Tech magazine is what first got me interested in wanting to run quicker on the 14b. When I saw 12.57 I wanted to run that which really got me going. And, I must mention the late Jeff Carpenter....he provided motivation and inspiration as he was running low 12's and was the quickest 14b guy when I was in the high 12's. When I bought my Talon, all I wanted was a 13 second timeslip. That turned out to be such a walk in the park, I had to go for 12's. I got into the 12's and there were some guys ahead of me. Then, I wanted the quickest 14b of all time---which I did end up doing edging Leon R.'s 12.053, and held the record for almost a year. So, I met all my goals right! Nope. Then I wanted 11's as my record(12.022) was broken------everything else came pretty easy until it was time to run 11's. Wow, that was a fight that took me years to win. And now, I've got a solid mid 11 second 14b car. I was able to eclipse a few guys' times including Leon's 11.64 and the only guy left ahead was Dave(pneumo) at 11.51. I was close at 11.59 and with his help I was able to run 2 ticks quicker at 11.49. It's been a long road. But, a fun one. Maybe there's more, I'd like to think so.

All in all, I just want to say that I'm ecstatic at the interest, the contributions, and the overall popularity of this thread. It's cool that after 20 years there is this much interest in the factory issue turbo, even in the thick of guys running 8 seconds and new turbos and designs coming out breaking new ground. It seems the 14b grabs the vast majorities interest. Awesome.

Thanks to all for coming up here and sharing your experiences, knowledge, and expertise. Seriously, a BIG thanks! This is great and it fuels my fire........I'm sure the 16g interest will ramp up as well. It's almost like a recreation of the early mid 90's in a way...

Phil

 

[SBstar]

Wow! 1000 posts in the 14b thread! I know there's a couple of us who make up the vast majority of it, but still that is really incredible. Honestly as I start thinking about sticking my talon in storage for the winter I'm already getting excited again about next year, 11's in 2011 come hell or high water (or at least more breaking stuff). This past year has been the most fun I've had with dsm's as I've been able to finally get to the track and chase some goals. I've made some really good friends as well who've helped along the way and provided insight and motivation. This is what the dsm/car community is all about.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I know my slow times don't compare to you guys but I figured something out and wanted to post. I'm the guy that did the full turbo swap earlier this year. My 14b was originally creeping to 17+ but it was blown and making a horrible siren noise. I replaced it within a few weeks with a used 14b from the classifieds. Boost was holding at 14 psi, I figured that it was just because it was a different turbo. I ran 14.3 @ 101 in San Antonio. Went to the local track a few moths later and could only squeeze out a 14.7. Boost holding at 13-14 psi. I cleaned out my intercooler on a whim because I had done it just a few months before, before the swap. Now my boost is building faster and creeping to 17+ psi again (MBC is still all the way out, wastegate pressure). So I was racing with an intercooler that was clogged with oil from the blown 14b =(. It sucks and now I'm wondering if I could have hit 13's like I wanted. Oh well. By the time the track opens up next year I should have v3lite, some big injectors, and therefore, hopefully some respectable 1/4 mile times.

 

[pneumo]

I want to say that I'm happy that there is so much interest in the turbo that started it all for DSM's back in 1990(1989.)

A little OT, but the very first DSM rolled off the assembly line in August of 1988 IIRC. My Laser has a build date of December 1988! 22 years old next month. (my car, not me)

 

[jjrock5]

Is this why some people and even online parts stores call the 1g a 89-94?

I have never seen an '89 E/T/L...

 

[Steve93Talon]

A little OT, but the very first DSM rolled off the assembly line in August of 1988 IIRC. My Laser has a build date of December 1988! 22 years old next month. (my car, not me)

Was your Laser a model year '89 or '90? I've never seen anything with a VIN or title that showed it was an '89, just heard the stories that early production began in late '88.

 

[pneumo]

Oh right, there was no official '89 DSM, the 1988 through June of 1990 were considered to be 1990 model year. That's why the 1990 model year had the highest production numbers for any model year. The 1990 model year was 2.8 years long!

Here's another bit of trivia; the early version of the 1990 DSM came with OEM big brakes (10.75" rotor) with a single piston caliper, and the caliper uses the same, large brake pad as the twin piston caliper. Odd, eh?

 

[Phil1320]

I know my slow times don't compare to you guys but I figured something out and wanted to post. I'm the guy that did the full turbo swap earlier this year. My 14b was originally creeping to 17+ but it was blown and making a horrible siren noise. I replaced it within a few weeks with a used 14b from the classifieds. Boost was holding at 14 psi, I figured that it was just because it was a different turbo. I ran 14.3 @ 101 in San Antonio. Went to the local track a few moths later and could only squeeze out a 14.7. Boost holding at 13-14 psi. I cleaned out my intercooler on a whim because I had done it just a few months before, before the swap. Now my boost is building faster and creeping to 17+ psi again (MBC is still all the way out, wastegate pressure). So I was racing with an intercooler that was clogged with oil from the blown 14b =(. It sucks and now I'm wondering if I could have hit 13's like I wanted. Oh well. By the time the track opens up next year I should have v3lite, some big injectors, and therefore, hopefully some respectable 1/4 mile times.

Dude, bologna, this has nothing to do with an outright comparison. You're doing fine and I'm sure you'll do better in the future. You're part of this like all the rest of us, and that's why it's cool. I had two FWD Lasers in the past and had tons of fun with them, I wish I still had one actually. So, your contributions are great.....keep em coming!

Wow! 1000 posts in the 14b thread! I know there's a couple of us who make up the vast majority of it, but still that is really incredible. Honestly as I start thinking about sticking my talon in storage for the winter I'm already getting excited again about next year, 11's in 2011 come hell or high water (or at least more breaking stuff). This past year has been the most fun I've had with dsm's as I've been able to finally get to the track and chase some goals. I've made some really good friends as well who've helped along the way and provided insight and motivation. This is what the dsm/car community is all about.

Pretty awesome huh? And, you've come a long way this year so I'm glad for that and glad you're enjoying it.....

Is this why some people and even online parts stores call the 1g a 89-94?

I have never seen an '89 E/T/L...

The cars were released in the fall of '89 as '90 models......I've seen that too: '89-'94. This must be why.

The Archer Brothers were the first to get their hands on these cars and were racing the AWD cars in the 1989 SCCA season.

A little OT, but the very first DSM rolled off the assembly line in August of 1988 IIRC. My Laser has a build date of December 1988! 22 years old next month. (my car, not me)

No, it's cool stuff. I wasn't exactly speaking of build dates though, just that the DSM's were available for public comsumption in late 1989.

Oh right, there was no official '89 DSM, the 1988 through May of 1990 were considered to be 1990 model year. That's why the 1990 model year had the highest production numbers for any model year. The 1990 model year was 2.8 years long!

But while we are on the subject of build date relative to model year....

my talon's build date is 6/90 and is a 1990 model year, which contradicts your above statement.......

 

[pneumo]

my talon's build date is 6/90 and is a 1990 model year, which contradicts your above statement.......

Huh? Where'd you see that?

 

[Phil1320]

Huh? Where'd you see that?

See what?

 

[Phil1320]

Update:

-tranny out
-all wiring/hoses disconnected
-engine is ready to come out

Just need to get hoist/stand

Gonna obviously do some cleaning once the engine comes out, and maybe do some more tidying of wiring and such, especially on the firewall. I remember everyone used to drop everything lower on the firewall so that the top area where the "DSM" label is looked clean. Maybe a little of this/that.

Pulled the spark plugs to inspect finally....they are all there, but, they all have a copperish red tinge on them.......not sure what condition that suggests. Could have been resultant of the turbo blowing and what that did to the mixture, not sure.

That's it for this update.

 

[forcefed86]

Update:

-tranny out
-all wiring/hoses disconnected
-engine is ready to come out

Just need to get hoist/stand

Gonna obviously do some cleaning once the engine comes out, and maybe do some more tidying of wiring and such, especially on the firewall. I remember everyone used to drop everything lower on the firewall so that the top area where the "DSM" label is looked clean. Maybe a little of this/that.

Pulled the spark plugs to inspect finally....they are all there, but, they all have a copperish red tinge on them.......not sure what condition that suggests. Could have been resultant of the turbo blowing and what that did to the mixture, not sure.

That's it for this update.

IMO, You should make your own build thread. Sounds like your on your way, great to follow these simple builds that run so well.

 

[Phil1320]

IMO, You should make your own build thread. Sounds like your on your way, great to follow these simple builds that run so well.

I could do that. I had started a blog, but it doesn't seem to get much traffic so maybe a designated thread here in the forum would be cool. I guess I never thought to post outside this thread. Hmmmm......

 

[TSimage]

They'll make you post it in blog form.. That's why all of the build threads are dead.. the Blogs are a JOKE btw and thats why simply most guys with nice builds simply don't post them on Tuners. For whatever reason, only a select few are posted on the front page, the rest gets lost behind the scenes..

 

[Gooberlog]

Wow 1000 posts. I leave for a short time and this is what i miss. Phil I'm glad to see you're staying so motivated with getting the car done. Next year should be quite the trip. I'm heading to the track on Sunday to try for a new best on the holset. I just instaled a SMIM and i'm hoping it will net me times close to yours (ha-laughing at myself for wanting to run as fast as your 14b times with my big turbo) before the end of the season and I pull the engine out. I think i'll be dropping of my spare block at the machine shop sometime soon when i get some more free time.

 

[Phil1320]

They'll make you post it in blog form.. That's why all of the build threads are dead.. the Blogs are a JOKE btw and thats why simply most guys with nice builds simply don't post them on Tuners. For whatever reason, only a select few are posted on the front page, the rest gets lost behind the scenes..

Ahhh, well, I've got that already. So, guess I'll just keep the 14b updates to this thread then. That is weird. So, where would these guys be posting then? I happen to think this is the best DSM forum out there.

Wow 1000 posts. I leave for a short time and this is what i miss. Phil I'm glad to see you're staying so motivated with getting the car done. Next year should be quite the trip. I'm heading to the track on Sunday to try for a new best on the holset. I just instaled a SMIM and i'm hoping it will net me times close to yours (ha-laughing at myself for wanting to run as fast as your 14b times with my big turbo) before the end of the season and I pull the engine out. I think i'll be dropping of my spare block at the machine shop sometime soon when i get some more free time.

Yeah, isn't that nuts? This thread hauled ass right up to 1000 posts. Pretty awesome. I'm trying to stay motivated with it to finish out the season with some things accomplished. Hopefully it will be up and running earlier in the season next year, can't promise anything though.

That's awesome you're gonna run this weekend. Maryland kicks ass. 5 drag strips. Connecticut---NONE. Good luck beating 11.49!!!!!!

What type of work are you gonna have done to the block? Or do you mean the entire bottom end?

 

[jjrock5]

That is weird. So, where would these guys be posting then? I happen to think this is the best DSM forum out there.

DSMLink.com/forums

 

[Phil1320]

DSMLink.com/forums

Ahhhhh......fair enough then. When you only have an AFC2 like me, you don't tune in to places like that, or know about them With DSMlink in my future, I guess I better check it out! Thanks!

 

[Nate Crisman]

They'll make you post it in blog form.. That's why all of the build threads are dead.. the Blogs are a JOKE btw and thats why simply most guys with nice builds simply don't post them on Tuners. For whatever reason, only a select few are posted on the front page, the rest gets lost behind the scenes..

Yup, I'll agree that blogs on forums suck. NJDSM has the same thing, I tried it for a few weeks and it's just not the same as a build thread. Im mostly posting stuff to hear people's comments and reactions and with a blog that doesn't seem to happen. No comments & no discussion = no learning for anyone.

Phil: Keep the updates in this thread! I like going to one place and being able to see what the 14b crew is up to.

 

[SBstar]

I agree just keep the updates here, but feel free to start a new thread for track visits of course. It's nice having this thread to keep up with most/all of the 14b builds in one place. Otherwise I'm subscribed to like 20 threads at once haha.

 

[bullettdsm]

-engine is ready to come out

Just need to get hoist/stand

No cherry picker?

Pulled the spark plugs to inspect finally....they are all there, but, they all have a copperish red tinge on them........

Generally this is additives in the fuel. No green in there correct?

MB

 

[Steve93Talon]

DSMLink.com/forums

Beat me to it. The forums are reason enough to own the product.

Ahhhhh......fair enough then. When you only have an AFC2 like me, you don't tune in to places like that, or know about them With DSMlink in my future, I guess I better check it out! Thanks!

You need to have DSMlink to register on their forums. If you know someone with DSMlink, you can log in under their name to check things out and get a feel for it. You can also check out their wiki page to learn more about how it works.

start [ECMTuning - wiki]

 

[Phil1320]

Yup, I'll agree that blogs on forums suck. NJDSM has the same thing, I tried it for a few weeks and it's just not the same as a build thread. Im mostly posting stuff to hear people's comments and reactions and with a blog that doesn't seem to happen. No comments & no discussion = no learning for anyone.

Phil: Keep the updates in this thread! I like going to one place and being able to see what the 14b crew is up to.

Will do! It makes the most sense for sure.

I agree just keep the updates here, but feel free to start a new thread for track visits of course. It's nice having this thread to keep up with most/all of the 14b builds in one place. Otherwise I'm subscribed to like 20 threads at once haha.

Will do x2!

A thread for a track visit makes sense, if there is something new to report makes it a plus too. I agree, a one stop 14b area makes it easy, I suppose that's why I started the thread to begin with

No cherry picker?



Generally this is additives in the fuel. No green in there correct?

MB

Nope! Never had to pull an engine But, I've got one lined up for about two weeks out. I can get a stand from a friend, just have to pull one of his 300 Z blocks off it.

No, no green that I saw, but that was in artificial light, I will bring them out in the light of day and give one more look.......

.....I'd like you to stop by once the engine is out and give it a look over with me if you can make the time. Then I can make a solid decision about how to move forward.

Beat me to it. The forums are reason enough to own the product.



You need to have DSMlink to register on their forums. If you know someone with DSMlink, you can log in under their name to check things out and get a feel for it. You can also check out their wiki page to learn more about how it works.

start [ECMTuning - wiki]

Sweet, thanks!

 

[bullettdsm]

Never had to pull an engine But, I've got one lined up for about two weeks out. I can get a stand from a friend, just have to pull one of his 300 Z blocks off it.

No, no green that I saw, but that was in artificial light, I will bring them out in the light of day and give one more look.......

.....I'd like you to stop by once the engine is out and give it a look over with me if you can make the time. Then I can make a solid decision about how to move forward.

Cool by me. I've got a stand you could use, but I'm thinking you may need the stand for the winter. I gotta get to my 16 to 1 this winter so I would need it (probably by January). If you can't get a cherry picker, you can use mine in a little bit (right now the 2.3 is hanging on it, . Just waiting on Raif (RRT) to get my tranny back to me).

As for the green color, that's good. I was wondering about over heating. No green = good sign

MB

 

[Phil1320]

Cool by me. I've got a stand you could use, but I'm thinking you may need the stand for the winter. I gotta get to my 16 to 1 this winter so I would need it (probably by January). If you can't get a cherry picker, you can use mine in a little bit (right now the 2.3 is hanging on it, . Just waiting on Raif (RRT) to get my tranny back to me).

As for the green color, that's good. I was wondering about over heating. No green = good sign

MB

Ok, sweet Mark! Yes, I would leave the engine on the stand most likely til spring, unless it were to end up at a machine shop, so I will work on getting the stand, that shouldn't be a problem. I do have a cherrypicker lined up, but, if that falls through and you could be my back up that would be great. Literally, I just have to find some bolts for the power steering bracket and bolt that solid(for removal) and it's ready to come out. If you dropped by for an hour one day it would be out no prob.

The plugs are back in the head now so you can check em out whenever it is that you can make it by the house.

Thanks again! Looks like my talon finally has become a "project" car

Before this, it was just un-bolt - bolt-on - un-bolt - bolt-on....etc.>>>and GO!