Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

[prodsm]

All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.



I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks

 

[delta448]

We went back out to work on it and found for some reason, those compression numbers I gave were way off. It's nowhere near 80, they're hovering around 20 at best.

It's either out of time or there is damage.

We're thinking the shop forgot to shorten the valve stems after they reseated the valves, and now the valves never close. Though, I cannot imagine they managed to forget to do that, it's a very reputable shop that actually has a semi legitimate race team as half their business.

They don't work on DSMs much do they? Let me guess, old school pushrod V8 guys?

As I left the shop when I picked it up, I was in a hurry and didn't hear everything the guy said (stupid, I know), but he said something about if it didn't run well right away, to give it some time and the head should "settle" or whatever. He was saying he had problems getting the hydrolic lifters to be where he wanted them. ...But my dad, doesn't seem to think there are any lifters on a dohc engine. Can anyone shed some light on this issue?

The FSM calls them "lash adjusters", but "lifter" is acceptable IMO. Yes, they're hydraulic and use engine oil pressure to operate. They sit in-board on the head on each side of the spark plugs, one per valve. They adjust to maintain the rocker arm's contact with both the cam and the valve. When you reinstall cams you're supposed to "bleed" the lifters, allowing them to collapse. This is usually done by inserting a straightened paper clip into the hole in the tip and pushing the internal valve down to let out some of the oil inside the lifter.

If this procedure was skipped, your valves were surely hung open when you did your compression test, and most likely several of them are now bent since the 4G63 is an interference engine. That would also explain why you had 80 across and now have 20 on your compression test.

Wouldn't it make sense to have terrible compression if the valves can't completely close?

Yep.

Are the rollers supposed to ALWAYS be touching the cams?

The rockers should be in contact with the cam base circle unless the engine has sat without being turned over, which would allow the lifters to self bleed some from valve spring pressure. If the engine is cranked over, -say for a compression test perhaps-, then the oil pump spins and pressurizes the lifters back up again.

It's time for a leakdown test.

 

[floader]

+1 on bleeding the lash adjusters. If you have no compression in any cylinders this would be a likely problem. It's not certain that it would bend the valves tho, bleed them and give it a try.

 

[bryanwheat]

If they have been in the engine for a few hours than they will be bled down. The valve spring pressure will take care of that.

 

[delta448]

Depending on the valve springs, the oil and the temperature of it. If you run high pressure springs, thin oil and have a heated garage, then sure.

 

[miguelmcv]

To me looks like you have BEND VALVES.

If you did the timing right but, you didn't bleed the lifter,,, Then there is 90% that you have bend valves.

Do a Leak Down Test, and you will know exactly what is going on.

 

[starfish]

Hi guys I just had my head rebuilt, it's been a relatively long process. But I got the car back together today and it's turning over with fuel and spark, but it's not catching. I don't know what to do.

My brother said something he had to do on his stratus r/t was to reset the coil pack as he thinks the spark plugs aren't sparking at the right time. I can't really test this, but I can't find anything about doing that. I've checked and double checked and everything in the car is how it should be to my eyes, no loose connections or anything. I'm at a loss because I really just want to get to driving my beloved car again.

Any help?

Thanks so much.

are you sure you bled your fuel lines and got air out of the system?Get a spray bottle and put some gas in it.Use that instead of either.check all your wiring.It could be something simple.Unless you want to take everything apart because its so much fun!

 

[miguelmcv]

are you sure you bled your fuel lines and got air out of the system?Get a spray bottle and put some gas in it.Use that instead of either.check all your wiring.It could be something simple.Unless you want to take everything apart because its so much fun!

Fist time I see some one giving an advice on electrical to fix his Low Compression.

I think we should try to read all the Thread, instead of reading just the first post of the OP.

 

[Spyderman7]

Some times head shops dont do what they are suppose to and will face the valves and valve job on head and not tip them and this can cause basically no compression.Now if you did not crush the lifters prior to install it will cause the same condition of no compression.

Another if the timing is off

 

[solson1041]

Okay, thanks so much for the replies guys. Unfortunately, no autozone/o riley/advanced autoparts/napa around here will lend a leak down tester, and all the shops are closed... so I'm without that option today. Though I'm pretty sure there's clearly a huge problem, I'm not sure what the LD test would show other than it all leaving like instantly.

How do I bleed the hydraulic lifters? I found http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/365986-diy-lash-ajusters-lifters-cleaning.html this pretty great article about it, but how do I get the lifters out to do it? Or as someone mentioned earlier, should they basically be bleed by now anyways? The head has been on in a relatively heated garage for the past week, so idk what that means to you guys.

I doubt I have bent valves because the engine turned over by hand nice and smooth when we set the timing. We turned it over through the whole engine cycle a couple times before a key every touched the ignition. You would physically feel the valve hit the piston if it was going to bend them later on right?

I guess it's time to triple check our timing job, though I don't know how it could be off, but that would be the most obvious fix.

 

[delta448]

I'm not sure what the LD test would show other than it all leaving like instantly.

You could do it poor man's style; make sure the cams are positioned to not open any valves and blow compressed air in the plug hole and see where it comes out at. At least you'd know which valves aren't sealing.

how do I get the lifters out to do it?

They should pull out easily after the rocker is out of the way. The VFAQ has an article on that too.

Or as someone mentioned earlier, should they basically be bleed by now anyways? The head has been on in a relatively heated garage for the past week, so idk what that means to you guys.

It depends. How long had it been sitting after the work was done before someone cranked it over? Even though Bryan might tell you otherwise, I'd be skeptical of them bleeding themselves until I saw the lifters do it with my own eyes during the instance in question. Don't speculate that they were probably collapsed, assume the worst until you find otherwise. Check it thoroughly before you call it good or you may end up causing more damage.

I doubt I have bent valves because the engine turned over by hand nice and smooth when we set the timing. We turned it over through the whole engine cycle a couple times before a key every touched the ignition. You would physically feel the valve hit the piston if it was going to bend them later on right?

I really want to say yes to this, but metal expands when it gets hot, so I won't guess.

I guess it's time to triple check our timing job, though I don't know how it could be off, but that would be the most obvious fix.

If it's not the lifters, then my money's going to be on the timing.

 

[bryanwheat]

Harbor freight is your friend.

 

[92AWDHX40]

sounds like timing.

 

[Nosroxs]

Alright guys new timing belt, new water pump, new cps. Can turn the key over all day and still wont fire, no spark to plugs, and i dont see the plugs getting wet when i pull the plugs, havent touched the cam sensor, all timing marks are lined up, i checked all connections that i had touched, everything seems fine..

Car ran fine decieded to change the water pump do to a small leak, tore the car down replaced the water pump and timing belt put it all back together started the car would barely fire then backfired so i figured the timing jumped a tooth tore it back down while doing so i acidentally broke the cps so i got a new one installed it now no fire took the cps back and got a different one incase of defectiveness installed new one still no spark any help would be appreciated...

 

[92AWDHX40]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html

 

[Alex7747]

are you sure you plugged the crank position sensor to the right plug? the crank position sensor and the A/C plug look the same and it could be plugged the wrong one. i would check there first.

 

[Nosroxs]

yes it has to be pluged into the right plug i did not unplug any other plugs i am at a lost putting in a new transmission and clutch was easier then this bs 96 talon tsi FOR SALE!!!

 

[92AWDHX40]

I would post in the classifieds when you have enough posts.

 

[Nosroxs]

update.. still not running i turned the key to on and plugged in the cps and a couple relays made noise so i am guessing that sensor is fine dont see a spark pulled the fuel line and turned the engine over and gas came pouring out not to shure if injectors are working and still no spark wtf am i missing car ran fine till i changed the water pump ran for 5 to 10 seconds then my balance shaft broke so i had to tear it down to replace the belt while doing so i accidently broke the cps so i replaced it with a new one still no fire so i got another cps installed it still no fire all timing marks are ligned up still nodda i think trhe car has finally beet me ..... any insight before towing it to a shop?

 

[tommywsmith]

How r u checking to see if there's spark?

Let me rephrase that. Are you pulling a cylinder spark plug, spares don't always have the same amount of resistance an old plug has, and are you laying it on a no painted metal surface to ground it?

 

[solson1041]

I.... I am an embarrassed moron..

So it turns out there's TWO timing marks on the cam gears, And it is possible to set the marks facing each other, without the dowels pointed up...

I can't believe I overlooked this.

Anyways, I set the timing actually right this time, like almost everyone who commented told me to do and lo-and-behold she started right up and runs like a ####ing top right now. Absolutely night and day between when I tore it apart three weeks ago and now. I cannot stop smiling, it's amazing. I'm so glad that my car now has no major problems.

Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it, you're the best. Have a wonderful night everybody.

 

[Nosroxs]

I would post in the classifieds when you have enough posts.

i was just kidding, total sarcasm, i love my tsi wayyyy to much to let it go, even with the engine blown it would give me the chance to do the 6 bolt swap. i wouldnt get rid of my ride for a brand new car, unless it was a brand new DSM

How r u checking to see if there's spark?

Let me rephrase that. Are you pulling a cylinder spark plug, spares don't always have the same amount of resistance an old plug has, and are you laying it on a no painted metal surface to ground it?

Yes i pulled cylinder 1 plug dropped in a dead plug so not to disturb pressure balance and grounded it out with vicescripts to bare metal on every plug then i still wasnt convinced so i grabbed the plug while a buddy turned it over, i didnt get zapped so phew yeah no spark for shure . but i gave up for the night seeing as its dark outside after 4 days of headaches blood swet and tears and no conclusion to as of why there isnt any spark i finally got ahold of my mechanic buddy that said he would come over tuesday with his snapon car computer. He said that it would tell me exactly what is wrong with it and we will go from there.. if anybody can figure it out he can, i will make sure to keep up on it and let yall kniow whats going on to help you fellow DSMers with the similiar no spark issue .. Thanks again to all ya'll that has tried to help me get this beautiful car fixed!! DSM FOR LIFE!!!

 

[amballer82822]

Thanks guys.. So simple.. bad battery appreciate the help.!

 

[xXEclipse]

My GST used to do the exact same thing when my terminals were bad.. The radio would turn on and when id turn the key to start everything would turn off, Just a symptom you can check

 

[boostdawd]

+1 on the terminals. I would disconnect them and clean them with an abrasive cloth or scotchpad. Maybe even coke? ..........Either way though check the terminals and I believe your alternator should be ok. Once you get it to turn on, disconnect one of the terminals for a quick second to see if your car stays on.If it doesnt it might be your alternator buddy.

 

[dennis-1009]

I have a 1998 talon tsi with a gen 1 motor and a gen 2 head. I have put the vehicle in time and I put the CAS sensor in and I still cannot get it to start. I even put a potentiometer on the barometric wiring to see if it would help. The only thing I have not done is to hook up my e-manage. I cannot figure out what is going on. I get the car to crank and a couple of times it started for a few and then shutoff, now it won't even start. Any ideas would be appreciated.