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[RESOLVED] New kinetic G50 blowing smoke?

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pmanaresi

15+ Year Contributor
132
8
Oct 10, 2006
West Creek, New_Jersey
I had a replica 20g on my 2g 6bolt for about 6 months with no problems. about 2 months ago i started it up and it was dumping smoke out the tailpipe. oil was also spewing from all my exhaust gaskets and out the compressor too. the turbo had some bad shaft play so i decided to rebuild it with an mhi 20g rebuild kit from FP. after the rebuild there was virtually no shaft play but after install i still had the same problem. from there i decided stop messing around and to get a new turbo - the sbr g50. i got the turbo a few days ago (after a month of waiting) installed it and it still smokes, but not nearly as much. my oil pressure guage (factory) reads normal and i am feeding off the oil filter housing with a 10an pushlock drain tube. i have been reading some threads about oiling issues with these turbos but i dont see why it would be smoking from the start on a brand new turbo. i ordered an oil pressure guage and a feed line to run from the head, but i am not sure this is going to help. in the mean time i am looking for any ideas on what i could try - thanks in advance for the help
 
Oil drain tube. Check it. Make sure there isn't the slightest deviation in it's straightness. I've got two friends who both encountered the same problem recently and assumed it was a blown seals. We checked the oil returns and they both had a slight kink. We replaced them with tubes that had no kink whatsoever and the smoking went away. This as on a Bullseye 50trim and an FP3575 (journal bearing 50 trim and 3575 is BB) so I'm betting that's what your issue is as well. Also, don't be afraid to pull the drain tube off the oil pan and turbo. Just because you don't have any kinks doesn't mean that there isn't something obstructing oil flow back into the pan. Maybe an improperly placed gasket or anything. Just make sure to be thorough.

Good thing is that once the return lines were fixed, the smoking never occured again and the seals were still in good shape. Just gotta catch it quick. Let us know what you turn up, because if this is the issue that means you probably still have a perfectly fine MHI 20g on your hands. :) Good luck.


**EDIT**

I just spoke with my buddy who has the FP3575. His issue was not that he had a kinked line. My friend with the 50 trim had the kinked line that led to the oil blowing. The other guy had excessive crank case pressure from poor ventilation which hindered the oils ability to drain back into the pan. So, in addition to checking the line, also check and make sure you're engine is properly ventilated. An oil catch can with a breather tends to work best for this. You can search all kinds of threads on this forum about it.
 
You need an inline restrictor.

Keep in mind these videos were taken at idle on this particular engine:

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the line is not kinked, just a little angled. i can get it to be any straighter that this though. i have ordered a feed line to run from the head, so hopefully this will help. attached are pics of my return line, though bent, it does not appear to be kinked
 

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Return that turbo while you still have a chance.

We purchased a Kinetic G50 last year, and we had the same exact problem you are having.
The 1st time, the turbo was replaced no questions asked AFTER we replaced the headgasket thinking we had blown it.
2nd time we installed the NEW turbo, and blew smoke right after installation.

We confronted Kinetic about this, and they were assholes about it. They have a 12 month "warranty" on the turbo, but from shipping the turbo back and forth the warranty expired.

I will never buy any Kinetic part again, and I recommend you do the same.
I've had ebay 16g's that last longer than these turbos, what a joke.
 
I run a G60 that uses the same Kinetic center section with a line from the oil filter housing with no restrictor and I've never had an issue with smoke. I also have eliminated the balance shafts without doing any port work to the oil relief valve and still no problems. In fact, the only problem that I have with this turbo is that it's a little laggier in comparsion, but with the 4" MWE-like compressor cover it pulls like crazy in the top. I know other people who use these same kinetic turbos (50 and 60 trims) with no problem either. I'd look into your individual setups before blaming the turbo.
 
Ok, if it was our setup wouldn't installing a different turbo yield the same results?
We installed a t25, ebay 16g, and MHI small 16g and had zero problems and we don't to this day.

When we installed the G50 we used new oil feed, and drain lines.

I just hope anybody that has purchased one of these turbos doesn't have to go thru what we went to.
$800 down the drain on a "new" turbo.
 
the line is not kinked, just a little angled. i can get it to be any straighter that this though. i have ordered a feed line to run from the head, so hopefully this will help

Check your catch can setup if you use one. Just throwing a mini-filter on the side of the VC will not suffice and eventually clog up.

I don't know how yours is setup, but I have an barbed fitting in the place of the original PCV on the back of the Valve Cover (I use a SMIM). I run this free-flowing barbed fitting into one port of my vented catch can from JMFab. The side port on the VC (by the CAS) that is usually routed into the intake, so that the turbo can suck pressure from the crank case, is tied into my catch can on the other port and I have no issue. This is probably the simplest, effective setup you can get. Is it 100% correct? Not really, but it works well for street setups wild mild builds. This is also what my friend did to fix his smoking problem on his 3575 setup.

This might not be your problem, but it's worth looking into before scrapping your 2nd turbo setup.
 
Ok, if it was our setup wouldn't installing a different turbo yield the same results?
We installed a t25, ebay 16g, and MHI small 16g and had zero problems and we don't to this day.

Completely different CHRA's with different needs for oil dissipation from the bearing. Don't quote me, but I think jusmx141 even has a thread about the differences in needs for the feed/return of turbos on our cars. What was working on those smaller MHI turbos probably wasn't sufficient for the different needs of the kinetic turbos. I just think there is too much uneducated bashing on this forum from people who don't properly investigate why things act the way they do.
 
blcknspo0ln had a G50 fail on him, is he uneducated on the subject?

Can you show me where on their site it says that you need to buy an oil restrictor/filter for this turbo?
Kinetic Motorsport: KINETIC DSM 50T TURBO w/ INT. WG


To the original poster: You can rule out the turbo by installing any other turbo you might have lying around that works. I'm willing to bet money that turbo is bad.
 
Your return line looks a bit twisted. I bet that's impairing flow at least a little bit. This is the setup we made up on mine and crossed over to a buddy's car. We used two swivel elbows with a slight bend on each end to eliminate any possible kinking and this has worked everytime so far. This motor is fed off the OFH too with BShafts taken out.
 

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To the original poster: You can rule out the turbo by installing any other turbo you might have lying around that works. I'm willing to bet money that turbo is bad.

This is very true also, but if you read back he said that he originally had this issue with a 20g. He used an FP rebuild kit and it continued to have the same issue. Now, it could be possible that some inability to properly drain the oil from the turbo is also a the reason the first 20g initially failed. And rebuilding a turbo without fixing the antagonistic faults won't remedy it. This is speculation on my part, but it could be a viable option that needs addressed. Like I said earlier, if this was the case and the rebuilt 20g wasn't run very long, then most likely it is still in working order too and something else is to blame.
 
yes the 20g blew a ton of smoke and had so much oil blowing out the trubine side that the oil was spewing out of my exhaust gaskets. the g50 smokes very little at idle but under boost it blows clouds. i plan on running the feed from the head once the line arrives and if this doesnt work i will try other drain options
 
yes the 20g blew a ton of smoke and had so much oil blowing out the trubine side that the oil was spewing out of my exhaust gaskets. the g50 smokes very little at idle but under boost it blows clouds. i plan on running the feed from the head once the line arrives and if this doesnt work i will try other drain options

Try ordering another elbow like the one you have on the oil pan and making the line how it's picture up above. I gurantee that will remedy your problem. You have the exact same problem everyone I have ever known to have a kinked line. With the two swivel ends, you can elminate any sort of bending/twisting that you have now. Good luck!
 
uhhhh come on people. anyone ever think it could be the fact that there is still oil in the exhaust or whatever from the last blown turbo. let it idle for a little bit, drive it around, and if that dont do it, then try what theyre saying. did you even prime the thing on start up?
 
are those 45s or 60s? the one on my oil pan is a 90 degree bend

If that is an extremepsi.com kit than you have a 45 degree aluminum swivel head AN fitting. Just buy one more.

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - A-1 Performance 45 Degree Socketless Fitting: -10AN

You look as if you have enough tube to reuse with the two 45 fittings. It doesn't take much because the ability to turn the fittings gives it a more direct angle. On the ones I have made, there is only about an inch of tubing that is actually between the two fittings. The rest is merely used hold onto the fitting, if that makes any sense. Just to be on the safe side, you might wanna pick up a new piece of tubing as well. Use your discretion.
 
uhhhh come on people. anyone ever think it could be the fact that there is still oil in the exhaust or whatever from the last blown turbo. let it idle for a little bit, drive it around, and if that dont do it, then try what theyre saying. did you even prime the thing on start up?

Read:

yes the 20g blew a ton of smoke and had so much oil blowing out the trubine side that the oil was spewing out of my exhaust gaskets. the g50 smokes very little at idle but under boost it blows clouds. i plan on running the feed from the head once the line arrives and if this doesnt work i will try other drain options

This is an indication that the turbo is probably not being able to drain. jusmx141 is probably right that an inline restrictor could help, but if he has a oil feed kit for the head then that will provide less oil pressure and should clear up the smoke at idle.

The blowing clouds of smoke under boost is another sign that their is either too much oil pressure or an inability to properly pass oil through the chra and into the oil pan. His line looks a bit rough. Not nearly a smooth and free-flowing as it should, which is why i'm suggesting he buy one more 45 degree fitting to straighten it out and give the oil and nice, happy path to the oil pan.
 
Ok, if it was our setup wouldn't installing a different turbo yield the same results?
Not at all. Every turbocharger has different oil supply and drain requirements. Take a look at the size of the oil supply hole in the cartridge of a Garrett turbo versus a MHI unit if you don't believe this is true:

MHI:

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Garrett:

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Can you show me where on their site it says that you need to buy an oil restrictor/filter for this turbo?
Kinetic Motorsport: KINETIC DSM 50T TURBO w/ INT. WG
No turbo ads ever tell you whether or not a restrictor is needed. You're supposed to understand the oiling requirements for the aftermarket turbo you're buying before you ever install it.

Email Kinetic and ask them specifically what oil pressure threshold their turbos are designed to operate within. If they can't answer your question, they shouldn't be selling turbos.

i plan on running the feed from the head once the line arrives and if this doesnt work i will try other drain options
Be careful doing this as some engines will provide too little oil pressure at idle and while cruising. Head oiling a Garrett works perfect for one guy and blows the turbo instantly on five other cars. It never makes any sense to me.

If you're checking pressure at the head, it should be at a minimum of 35psi under load and around 12-15psi while cruising. Any less will damage the turbo.

I'd throw a 1/16" restrictor in the existing oil supply line. You're not going to hurt anything by doing so, and the pressure will still be kept at acceptable levels for a Garrett to operate perfectly.

-4AN TURBO OIL RESTRICTOR


It's definitely not a drain issue as far as the line being routed, but you may want to chamfer the edge of the hole in the turbo drain flange so the oil can drain smoothly. As you can see by my post in this thread, the hole in most -10AN Garrett drain flanges is smaller than even the stock Mitsu drain line, so there's no way it can possibly drain the additional oil as effectively.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...turbo-users-your-oil-drain-may-too-small.html
 
Whats up guys.. Ok. as some of you may know i just finished up not to long ago with my G50 install.. I went back and fourth trying to decide where do run what oil return/feed.. I ended up going with an Extremepsi feed line from the head.. and just reused my oil return from my 16g which also was from Extremepsi... So far NO SMOKE WHATSOEVER.. seeing from 22-25 psi daily :thumb: I just change my oil every 2200 miles just to be safe. Hope this helps
 
I ordered two 45 swivel an fittings and a foot of stainless hose. Hopefully that will help.

If you really wanna figure out exactly which of these is the issues (feed or drain, or maybe both), install them one at a time. Then fire up the car, let it idle for a bit and go try a light boosted pull to see if it still smokes. If so, then install the other and try again. Hopefully one or the either will remedy your problem, but this way you can report back which was actually the problem.
 
Ok, if it was our setup wouldn't installing a different turbo yield the same results?
The op went from one brand/type of turbo to the next and had the same results. . . What's your point? He had bad smoke before and after installing this turbo. . . It's the turbo's fault?

DSMs Suck for turbos. Which is bad considering they are built for turbos. Oil pressure is all random and haphazard in rpms per build and are random and haphazard for different builds. . ..
 
You "wisemen" crack me up.
To the op, let me know if you have problems with Kinetic if you decide to contact them.
 
well i got the return fittings and lines today and hooked up a new drain with absolutely no kinkage and the feed line from the head. long story short, it didnt change a thing. my first thought was well shit maybe my headgasket is leaking oil into the cylinders somehow. i performed a compression test with even 150psi across the board (i have some domed out wiseco pistons- same compression as after i broke in the motor). then i thought about how a head gasket oil leak would yield extreme amounts of smoke and oil in my exaust with my old 20g and only a small amount of oil with my shiny new g50? it just doesnt add up. i believe that the g50 i have is a pos with bad oil seals. this is the only conclusion i have. i plan on calling sbr tomorrow to return it. does anyone know if sbr will do anything about it since it is a kinetic g50 or should i call kinetic direct?
 
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