Questions for Justin...

[H@xtGSX]

Schweet... Thanks. I'm not even going to try to pinch one of those damn things off now... That is 30 minutes of frustration averted. I have already ruined several pairs of 90 degree pliers workig on friends turbos with those things...

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

It wouldn't be a Disco Potato without the .86 A/R turbine set up... That is what allows it to spool up like a T25 and keep on yanking until 7k. If you slapped a DSM turbine housing on it, you'd be defeating the intended design of the DP.

Well i guess the first part was stupid to say. Should have just say with machining
.

We touch on that a bit here. Theoretically you *could* have a T25 turbine housing machined to work, but I don't know why you'd want to as you'd just end up with an expensive-ass ball bearing T28.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/442192-gt28rs-disco-potato-road-course.html

Well, not that i have a need to do so, but a ball bearing t28 would obviously be more durable and efficient than its journal bearing brother. Ball bearings reduce thrust loads correct? So the it could efficiently run more boost correct? Would be a great setup for autox theoretically.

 

[schalk35]

Ive read through all of the many different Holset dyno #'s and basically I'm looking for a bolt-on turbo that can make around 400 awhp on pump 93. I was mainly looking into the Hx-40 with a bolt on housing.( This way I will have room to grow and maybe switch to a t3 later on) Not sure what blade but probably an 8 blade as this will be mainly a DD. What are your thoughts. My engine is a stock healthy 6 bolt. I also plan on picking up some cams later on but for now I would like to get a turbo. Does anyone know what kind of spool times I can expect from this turbo? I also heard that back pressure from the BEP housing can have a negative impact on the turbo/ knock. What would be the most cost effective route hx40 or TDO5 20g?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

You tell us.

20G with TD05H turbine vs. HX40 is apples and grapefruits comparison.

One is a mid-40lb/min turbo, the other approaching 70.

Which do you think has a better chance of making 400awhp on pump 93?

If you plan on growing later, you should build for your eventual power goal.

It doesn't sound like you've done any reading if you are asking about power and spool times at this point.

 

[schalk35]

You tell us.

20G with TD05H turbine vs. HX40 is apples and grapefruits comparison.

One is a mid-40lb/min turbo, the other approaching 70.

Which do you think has a better chance of making 400awhp on pump 93?

If you plan on growing later, you should build for your eventual power goal.

It doesn't sound like you've done any reading if you are asking about power and spool times at this point.

I know that spool times for the Hx40 will differ greatly depending on how many blades the wheel is and what size the exducer is, and also what flange that I decide to use either the DSM .55A/r or the T3 .70 A/r. The 70lbs per minute from what I understand is relative to the afore mentioned (and other variables fuel, manifold, cams, psi, housing ect.) I guess my main question is will a hx-40 going to be pointless for my goals? I know I wont truly be tapping into its potential. I just wanted to get someone's opinion. Thanks!

 

[JayB12]

I have a question. I will soon be installing a 7 Blade HX35. It came with a .48 a/r machined garrett turbine housing. I have been debating on just buying the BEP .70 housing, but it is probably going to cost 300-500 to upgrade while I already have everything ready to bolt on right now. My real question is about the "airflow wall" I may hit with this housing. I really don't understand it completely. Lets say I bolt this on and make 40lb/min at 25psi (shot in the dark) but that is my "limit" does that mean turning the boost up to say 28psi will have no affect? What are the "symptoms" of reaching the turbine housing's limit? Also what would it be like for the .70? Would I make like 45lb/min (again, a guess) at the same 25psi? Or does it just increase the max airflow? Hopefully I am asking the right questions.

And one other question, I need to do a rebuild on this turbo and should I get the kit at Cummins or g pop shop? And what size is the nut on the compressor wheel?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I made 392 on pump at 22 psi by 4k on 92 oct with the .55 bolt on, it is a good street setup but i need more. This is the billet 7 blade. I found a screaming deal on a .70 t3 i might look into.

 

[schalk35]

I made 392 on pump at 22 psi by 4k on 92 oct with the .55 bolt on, it is a good street setup but i need more. This is the billet 7 blade. I found a screaming deal on a .70 t3 i might look into.

Awesome! Thanks Kyle, what kind of wg set-up are running I'm assuming off the o2 and is it recirculating or dump? Thanks!

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I know that spool times for the Hx40 will differ greatly depending on how many blades the wheel is and what size the exducer is, and also what flange that I decide to use either the DSM .55A/r or the T3 .70 A/r. The 70lbs per minute from what I understand is relative to the afore mentioned (and other variables fuel, manifold, cams, psi, housing ect.) I guess my main question is will a hx-40 going to be pointless for my goals? I know I wont truly be tapping into its potential. I just wanted to get someone's opinion. Thanks!

Well, what are your goals, you said 400whp but you want room to grow.. how much do you want to grow?

That will decide what housing, which compressor wheel, what cam, etc.

I had an S200sx-59 with the 74/64 turbine wheel and ran it in bolt on .55A/R, T3 open, T3 divided, and T4 divided on a 2.0 with a large cam.

Started with the Bolt on housing, and on a JMF SMIM, cams, ported 2G manifold, 3" open down pipe and O2 dumped housing moved just shy of 50lbs/min @ 29psi on pump 93.

3rd gear spool to 29psi was in the low/mid 4k rpm range.

Pump 93, Meth injection and toluene it made 37-38psi and logged 65-67lbs/min.. maxing the compressor but didn't feel like it was going much faster out the top from 33-34 to 37-38psi and was starting to fall off in the mid 8k rpm range.

On the opposite end of the spectrum in the big T4 divided Airwerks turbine housing, a large runner tubular manifold and SMIM I was still maxed out on the compressor at 65-67lbs/min, and boost was dropping up top as engine demand caught up by my 9250rpm redline.

But pulled much harder, intake temps were lower and the thing never fell on its face up top, would've made power through 9500-9750 easily but I didn't have the cam or springs for it at the time. Spool came in several hundred rpm later, but even with that said..

A fat, torquey 4800-9250 power band seriously hauls through 3rd, 4th and 5th gear in a 2700lb FWD 5MT if you have traction

 

[schalk35]

Well, what are your goals, you said 400whp but you want room to grow.. how much do you want to grow?

That will decide what housing, which compressor wheel, what cam, etc.

I had an S200sx-59 with the 74/64 turbine wheel and ran it in bolt on .55A/R, T3 open, T3 divided, and T4 divided on a 2.0 with a large cam.

Started with the Bolt on housing, and on a JMF SMIM, cams, ported 2G manifold, 3" open down pipe and O2 dumped housing moved just shy of 50lbs/min @ 29psi on pump 93.

3rd gear spool to 29psi was in the low/mid 4k rpm range.

Pump 93, Meth injection and toluene it made 37-38psi and logged 65-67lbs/min.. maxing the compressor but didn't feel like it was going much faster out the top from 33-34 to 37-38psi and was starting to fall off in the mid 8k rpm range.

On the opposite end of the spectrum in the big T4 divided Airwerks turbine housing, a large runner tubular manifold and SMIM I was still maxed out on the compressor at 65-67lbs/min, and boost was dropping up top as engine demand caught up by my 9250rpm redline.

But pulled much harder, intake temps were lower and the thing never fell on its face up top, would've made power through 9500-9750 easily but I didn't have the cam or springs for it at the time. Spool came in several hundred rpm later, but even with that said..

A fat, torquey 4800-9250 power band seriously hauls through 3rd, 4th and 5th gear in a 2700lb FWD 5MT if you have traction

Alright I get what your saying. I think that Eventually I would like to be in the 600 awhp. I just hope that running the turbo in lower boost isnt going to be pointless is all. Thanks for your replies LandSpeed!

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Not pointless, you will actually run through very efficient islands on the compressor map, even as low as 18-20psi on a 2.0L, depending on VE/redline.

But as stated, like the Borg Warner turbos, the Holsets really "wake up" north of 30psi.

On a 20G, you will have great spool thanks to the TD05H turbine in any of the MHI housings.. but you will also be limited by it in terms of turbine wheel flow. You will have your work cut out for you to make 400awhp on pump gas in that housing. E85 would likely allow for it, but either way you will have to have a complimentary setup to support this.

A TD06xx wheel would then be the way to go, and you'd be giving up spool, enough that with all of the above considered an HX35/40, 3071/76R, FP Green/Red or S200sx-56 or -59 all become more attractive.. From a price point the S200sx's and HX35/40s start to become yet more attractive.

If 600awhp is in your sights, you would then be better off looking at the FP Red, S200sx-59 with the 74mm turbine wheel, an HX40 in the T3 single or divided housings or a GT3582R/86R in one of the bigger T3 housings. You will be using methanol injection, race gas or E85 at this point.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Awesome! Thanks Kyle, what kind of wg set-up are running I'm assuming off the o2 and is it recirculating or dump? Thanks!

Tial 38mm Off the manifold, open dump. I was seeing 59lb a min at 27 psi also. I'm shootin for 600s also some day. Need to get my car back though.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

59lbs/min or 49lbs/min @ 27psi?

What flow numbers were you seeing at 22psi and 390awhp?

59 doesn't sound right..

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Quick question.

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75$
Has a evo3 tb to.prob get both for 85-90$

 

[Calan]

Quick question.

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75$
Has a evo3 tb to.prob get both for 85-90$

So what's the question?

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Oh sorry was working and forgot to say it is it worth that much. Sounds like a decent price to me. I've seen the IM go for 125-175 before. Just wanted a second opinion

 

[Bud92gsx]

Quick question.

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75$
Has a evo3 tb to.prob get both for 85-90$

I sold mine for 150$ with the tb, sensors, elbow.

75 shipped for just the manifold is a fair price.
The 1g tb or E3 is what you will want..1g being easier to find.Since these came from the jdm galant /evo 1/2 motor or the usdm = the 1g turbo motors.

It being this summer when I sold it..I'm pretty sure the jdm tb was 1 or two nipples, not 4 like 1g, and 3 like 2g.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

59lbs/min or 49lbs/min @ 27psi?

What flow numbers were you seeing at 22psi and 390awhp?

59 doesn't sound right..

I didn't dyno at 27 psi, see like 42lb a min at 22psi and 59 lb a min at 27 psi. Haven't even tried going past 27 yet. I was saying "also" to add to my other response.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Thats with really low timing also.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

You aren't picking up 150+ whp worth of airflow from 5psi on a 60mm turbo.

 

[Calan]

59 lb a min at 27 psi.

Which Holset is this?

That sounds a bit high for 27psi, at least compared to my 8-blade 40. I'm betting your airflow isn't quite calibrated.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Exactly, those are closer to HX52 flow figures, he is also on an HX40.

 

[Calan]

Yeah... I'd pee myself a little and start walking funny if I could see almost 600hp worth of air out of my HX40 at only 27psi.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I was moving ~50lbs/min on a 59mm Borg turbo @ 29psi which is extremely similar to the 58 and 60mm HX40 wheels, excepting the Holset turbine is a hair bigger on the turbine inducer.

That was on an efficient setup by all accounts, as evidenced by previous turbos and their massflow/psi rates. Same one that pulled a log and confirmed 33-35lbs/min out of a 14B for a couple winter months, for example.

Tested two 1G MAS's to make sure the first wasn't broken and then moved to an Evo 8 MAS which I used to calibrate the SD VE table, all showed the same flow. Evo 8 MAS was just less choppy So I can confidently say I knew my tables were very close if not dead on for that.

 

[Calan]

FWIW, I'm usually right around 52 lbs/min @ 27psi and 7400rpm. I don't see 57 lbs/min until I'm in the low 30 psi range. But, I'm running a 2.3l and my FP2 cams are choking airflow a little up top.

Still a lot of fun though, especially if SOMEONE WOULD MAKE A CDI BOX THAT COSTS LESS THAN A MORTGAGE PAYMENT AND THAT WON'T CRAP OUT ON THE SECOND DAY OF USE.

Sorry... I drifted off for a minute there.